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Tomster
Guest
Exactly!
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byfaithalone
Guest
I’m sorry that you are not comprehending plain English.
because I am a sinner and we are to confess our sins. Do you think the unsaved would confess their sins? No, the saved do. Is this really foreign to you?
because I am a sinner and we are to confess our sins. Do you think the unsaved would confess their sins? No, the saved do. Is this really foreign to you?
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byfaithalone
Guest
It is the same meaning.
λογίζομαι
logizomai
log-id’-zom-ahee
Middle voice from G3056; to take an inventory, that is, estimate (literally or figuratively): - conclude, (ac-) count (of), + despise, esteem, impute, lay, number, reason, reckon, suppose, think (on).
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byfaithalone
Guest
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Cat_Herder
Guest
You have yet to explain why Paul is telling born again Christians that they have fallen from grace. Or why Jesus is telling His disciples to keep the commandments, and that those who call him Lord but work inquity will not be saved.
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Tomster
Guest
'Alex to Iggy." “Alex to Iggy.”
W H Y B O T H E R T O C O N F E S S Y O U R S I N S I F Y O U A R E A L R E A D Y S A V E D .
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delsydebothom
Guest
It isn’t the same thing; if I say “I reckon you’re right”, I mean I think you actually are right. “Imputation” suggests a certain quality of fakeness–as though God were just pretending something is there when, really and truly, it isn’t. “Reckon” leaves open the interpretation that God is recognizing justice as a real attribute of the faithful man.
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Snerticus
Guest
As having once left the Church (after being Catholic for almost 30 years myself) and also thinking I knew the teachings yet rejected some of them (confession to a priest as just one example), I came to understand eventually that I had indeed misconstrued the Church’s teachings. I was of that very mindset - that I had been a Catholic for 30 years and I had learned all that mattered and disagreed with some of it. I have to tell you I was sincere. Sincerely wrong, but still sincere. As a matter of fact, I am still learning. And I probably will until I die. Even if I choose to study my faith to the exclusion of all else for the rest of my life, there will always be more to learn. And the more I learn, the more excited and amazed by what is the Catholic faith.I know you sincerely think you are right, but you are sincerely wrong.
IMHO, no one can fully understand the Catholic faith, unless they erroneously but sincerely ‘thought’ they did. There is simply too much to grasp being that it is not only physical but also spiritual. And no one living on earth can totally grasp the spiritual. About the best anyone can do is endeavor to learn more.
Professed Catholics disbelieving the teaching of Transubstantiation? Perhaps, but that simply means they don’t understand it. There are lots of things I still don’t understand about the Catholic faith that will and do come to me in ‘dribs and drabs’. What I don’t understand, I accept by faith; because Jesus left us His church, the pillar and foundation of Truth, guided by the Holy Spirit. Which takes a heavy burden off my shoulders, because instead of worrying if the Holy Spirit is or is not guiding my every move, I simply have to listen to what the Church teaches and I will know that Jesus is guiding me through Her.
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Cat_Herder
Guest
I’m going to venture a try to get this thread back on topic while also answering the imputed righteousness stuff.
We see in Scripture that justification is lost by grave sin
[BIBLEDRB]Heb 10:26-27[/BIBLEDRB]
If there is no longer any sacrifice for sins, then there are 2 necessary conclusions:
But the sinner must also:
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 11:27-30[/BIBLEDRB]
We see in Scripture that justification is lost by grave sin
[BIBLEDRB]Heb 10:26-27[/BIBLEDRB]
If there is no longer any sacrifice for sins, then there are 2 necessary conclusions:
- Whatever grace was in the sinner is gone. This is not consistent with the imputation theory, in which the sinner remains a sinner and is simply covered by grace. Paul says the state of the sinner’s soul has actually changed, hence the righteousness was infused, not imputed.
- The sinner must be reconciled: Christ’s sacrifice must be made present for the sinner again. How?
But the sinner must also:
[BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 11:27-30[/BIBLEDRB]
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MaryD33
Guest
I hesitate to post this as I don’t want to get “chewed out” if this may not be a good comparison but I am going to post it because the thought just came to mind and I thought it fitting in some ways at least.
Could we compare the “change” during substantiation to the “change” during marriage? Once we are married there is no physical change in us (perhaps happiness…)but no outwardly noticeable physical change of the marriage that anyone could see. Yes a ring but that does not mean the marriage, anyone could put on a ring and say they’re married. The two are now united as one but they don’t actually fuse. It is a commitment but in Christ it is more than just something verbal - it is a spiritual union. Yes this is christian belief but when it comes down to it both of these things are about believing in the spiritual and other world which is really the place these changes are happening.
Could we compare the “change” during substantiation to the “change” during marriage? Once we are married there is no physical change in us (perhaps happiness…)but no outwardly noticeable physical change of the marriage that anyone could see. Yes a ring but that does not mean the marriage, anyone could put on a ring and say they’re married. The two are now united as one but they don’t actually fuse. It is a commitment but in Christ it is more than just something verbal - it is a spiritual union. Yes this is christian belief but when it comes down to it both of these things are about believing in the spiritual and other world which is really the place these changes are happening.
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byfaithalone
Guest
Why do you leave out one of the most important verses in Heb 10?
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
Those that are truly saved, His sheep, are NOT those spoken of in the previous verses.
What are they breaking? Bread.
There were those that were treating the Lord’s supper as any other meal, to the point of drunkeness, not doing what they were told, and that is partaking in remembrance of Christ.
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byfaithalone
Guest
He doesn’t. Born again Christians do not rely on the law to justify them.
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byfaithalone
Guest
Because I am a sinner and we are told to confess our sins. Do you think the unsaved would confess their sins? No, the saved do. Is this really foreign to you?
Do you only confess your sins because you are UNSAVED? Do you confess your sin to be saved?
Do you not understand that no one confesses unless God has changed them, made them new creations in Christ, and given them a new heart?
Are you suggesting that every time you commit a sin, you become UNCHANGED?
Do you only confess your sins because you are UNSAVED? Do you confess your sin to be saved?
Do you not understand that no one confesses unless God has changed them, made them new creations in Christ, and given them a new heart?
Are you suggesting that every time you commit a sin, you become UNCHANGED?
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Tomster
Guest
Let’s talk about Romans 8:38-39 shall we?
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Tomster
Guest
Depends if it is a venial sin or mortal sin.
You still have not answered the question: How can one be in a state of sin and still be saved?
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byfaithalone
Guest
No, John is speaking to the saved.
No, not at all. Are you suggesting that the justified do not sin?
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byfaithalone
Guest
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
What about it?
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byfaithalone
Guest
No such thing. Sin is sin. The wages of SIN is death.
We are sinners, that is why we sin. Salvation doesn’t make anyone sinless. Are you having a hard time understanding grace? Were sin abounds, grace abounds even more. You can’t out sin God’s grace.
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clmowry
Guest
How do you know with certainty that the language He uses in this verse is metaphorical?
Chuck
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Tomster
Guest
Here’s something for you to chew on. One is not saved until the split second AFTER one dies. It is then that God judges us and we will then know with absolute certainty what our eternal destiny is.
While we are on earth there is no way of knowing whether we will share in the beatific vision or not short of a direct revelation from God.
Review Romans 8: 38-39
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