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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
My take on transubstantiation is simple: I do not believe that the incantations of a man can transform a piece of bread into God.
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Patavium
Guest
I see, so you don’t believe a Priest given authority through the laying of hands on him has cannot through Jesus Christ consecrate the host.
Do you believe the Apostles through Jesus Christ could perform any miracles, blessings, consecrations? or could lay their hands on other future men to ordain them? Are these future ordained men not able to perform any of their duties (such as consecration of the host) then?
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
Well, I don’t believe that Jesus was the son of God, so what he did or said doesn’t matter to me. And I don’t believe that the Bible (or any other text) is an accurate, definitive record of God’s interaction with man.
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Patavium
Guest
What do you believe friend? God exists, and we have evidence that is contained in scriptures?
My question is then, God exists, but he didn’t provide us to the path towards our salvation? are we to live trying to get close to him without any guidance ?
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CopticChristian
Guest
Guy,
Then as a Guy that is ex-Catholic that would be appropriate for your state of being. No Catholic can be Catholic without believing that a piece of bread is God and no ex-Catholic can believe what it is that Catholics believe and what the Church teaches as revealed truth causing you to be consistent in your exodus.
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CopticChristian
Guest
Guy,
Then you believe in God believing that if God had a Son it was not Jesus and that if there was a record of God’s interaction of man it would not be the Bible…however it appears you believe in God…time to start over for you I guess…
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
God exists - that’s the most I can be sure of through reason.
I don’t believe we need a path to salvation because I don’t believe we are inherently doomed.
There’s certainly tremendous wisdom in the Bible, and in that sense it’s inspired by God. God does speak to us, but His voice is subtle - it’s not a set of doctrines and dogmas pronounced over the centuries by councils of old men.
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
I can’t even conceive of God having a son. He could if he wanted to, of course. But the concept of “son” is something so rooted in the human existence that I just don’t think of God having one, any more than I think of Him having a nose, or ears or hair.Guy,
Then you believe in God believing that if God had a Son it was not Jesus and that if there was a record of God’s interaction of man it would not be the Bible…however it appears you believe in God…time to start over for you I guess…
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Patavium
Guest
I see, friend. Tell me and you decide what is good and what is bad according to what God says to you, then?
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SteveVH
Guest
That is exactly what the enemy wamts you to believe. I suppose you don’t believe we even have a spiritual enemy which is also what he wants you to believe. If you believe in God then I suggest you pray for guidance, wisdom and discernment and I mean that with all charity.
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
I don’t “decide”. I just try to figure it out. And that effort does include listening to the great wisdom contained in scripture and church teachings.
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Patavium
Guest
In other words, you “decide” based on what you “accept” from scripture and Church teachings, and also what you “reject” from scripture and Church teachings…
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
I accept what I find consistent with reason, and reject what I don’t. I believe that’s why God gave us the ability to reason.
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Patavium
Guest
I see, friend.
May God bless you, and guide you. May God keep you safe even from your erroneous decisions as a fallible man. Prayers sent to God for you.
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GaryTaylor
Guest
Its why Free Will was given. You must also believe God is infinitely beyond your ability to reason in the finite, which you do believe if you believe in God. So then the conversation isn’t what God could and couldn’t do for he could anything and often way beyond the finite understanding.
What becomes of importance is our understanding of the love God has for mankind and what He would do out of this Love for mankind. This is why He took on human flesh. God clearly understood the human condition as he cloaked Himself with it.
"This is recorded in scripture when the Lord said; “I AM in the Father, and the Father in Me.” On this account, having already stated. “The Father and I are One” Quite reasonably He adds: “I AM in the Father, and the Father in Me” The Lord shows the identity of the Godhead and the Unity of Essence. God was reconciling the world to Himself in Christ. The propriety of the Fathers essence is the Son, in whom all creation was reconciled. Therefore what so ever the Son does are works of the Father, for the Son is the image of the Fathers Godhead, which does those works, he then that looks upon the Son, sees the Father, the paternal image which is in the Son, shows forth in Him the Father, thus the Father is in the Son.
This is what John writes when he says,. “In this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of the Spirit” Through the Grace given us of the Spirit, we come to be in Him, and He in us. Since the spirit is the spirit of God, through His coming to be in us and having the Spirit, we are reasonably considered as coming to be in God, and thus, God in us. The Spirit is what the Lord imparts to all who seek Him, and call His name." St Athanasius
Just as He came to man to save man, so too it follows the Spirit continues to impart Grace to man in his most apparent need. “I AM with you always.” The New and Everlasting Covenant.
“In the beginning was the Word, even if nothing else was created, this was still true; the Word of God was, and the Word was God. His becoming man would not have occurred if the need of men had not become a cause.” St Athanasius
Stand to reason?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Let’s get back on topic please
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CopticChristian
Guest
Guy,
Jesus referred to himself as Son of Man more than any other title. Reason this.
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The idea of a Son should come easily. Man you should have no trouble with.
Son of Man. Son of God.
I understand your dilema.
Reason this, as the bread and wine are changed from physical to divine, the Son of Man is changed from physical to divine.
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PRmerger
Guest
Then you are creating a god in your own image, someone who is limited by your reason.
As St. Augustine said, “If you can understand Him, He is not God.”
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ExCatholicGuy
Guest
I don’t claim to understand God. But those men who so confidently defined the minutia of Catholic beliefs over the centuries certainly seemed to think they did!
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PRmerger
Guest
Excellent.
Well, it’s part of the commandment of God to try to love Him entirely with our MIND.
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