Trasngender vs. Transvestite

[pcg2]

Ok, so I’m confused as to what the difference is between these two. Transexual, transgender, transvestite, cross-dresser, drag-queen, drag-king… what do all these mean?

I’m ignorant on this topic and it would help my ability to defend Catholic moral theology if someone would educate me

 

[dusza]

Ignorance is bliss (at least on this topic).

 

[Zatzat]

You forgot about ’ two spirited’. The answers to your question are but a mouse click away…google or dictionary.com.

 

[aussie_jaz]

Ignorance is bliss (at least on this topic).

what a lovely christian response …NOT !!!

it is due to the ignorance on this issue why transsex , transgender and intersex PEOPLE are victims of high rates of murder , beatings , constant harrassment and discrimination. does that sound very blissful to you ?

 

[thistle]

Ok, so I’m confused as to what the difference is between these two. Transexual, transgender, transvestite, cross-dresser, drag-queen, drag-king… what do all these mean?

I’m ignorant on this topic and it would help my ability to defend Catholic moral theology if someone would educate me

They are essentially the same. A man or woman who want people to think of them as the opposite sex to their biological sex. Some merely dress as the opposite sex while other go to the extreme of having a sex operation.

With regard to cross dressing Scripture is clear and unambiguous:

Deut 22:5

"A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s dress; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

 

[ShanaA1984]

Deut 22:5

"A woman shall not wear an article proper to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s dress; for anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, your God.

Best explanation so far:thumbsup:

 

[Dale_M]

Ok, so I’m confused as to what the difference is between these two. Transexual, transgender, transvestite, cross-dresser, drag-queen, drag-king… what do all these mean?

You’ll find there is some disagreement over the exact meanings of any words which define an identity, including the ones you cite. But I think these definitions are pretty good: They were complied by the Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, with help from from a lot of knowledgeable people.

Cross-Dressing (Also Transvestite, Transvestitism): A person who wears the clothing considered typical for another gender on occasion, but does not desire to change their gender. Reasons for cross-dressing can range from a need to express a feminine or masculine side to attainment of erotic/sexual/fetish gratification. Cross-dressers can be of any sexual orientation, but within this community, there is a large percentage of heterosexually/straight-identified individuals.

Drag (also Drag King, Drag Queen, Female/Male Impersonator): Wearing the clothing of another gender, often with exaggerated cultural/stereotypical gender characteristics. Individuals may identify as Drag Kings (female in drag) or Drag Queens (male in drag). Drag often refers to dressing for functional purposes such as entertainment/performance or social gatherings. Drag has held a significant place in GLBT history and community.

Trans (also Transgender): Those who transgress societal gender norms; often used as an umbrella term to mean those who defy rigid, bipolar gender constructions, and who express or present a breaking and/or blurring of cultural/stereotypical gender roles. This includes: androgynes, cross-dressers, gender-benders, intersexed individuals, shape-shifters, transvestites, and transsexuals.

Transsexual (also Female-to-Male (FTM/F2M), Male-to-Female (MTF/M2F), Pre-Operative, Post-Operative, Non-Operative): A person who, through experiencing an intense long-term discomfort resulting from feeling the inappropriateness of their assigned gender at birth and discomfort of their body, adapts their gender role and body in order to reflect and be congruent with their gender identity. This may include cross-living, synthesized sex hormones, surgery and other body modification which may or may not lead to the feeling of harmony between a person’s body and gender identity.

There are lot more definitions at the SMYAL site, but I don’t want to overwhelm you. Still, here is the link in case you want to learn more.
banyancounselingcenter.com/tsterminology.html

I would note that the definitions were compiled in the late 90s, so some of them are out of fashion e.g. transgenderist or shape-shifter.

 

[Dale_M]

With regard to cross dressing Scripture is clear and unambiguous:

Deut 22:5

The problem with taking Bible verses out of context is that they lose their meaning. Deuteronomy 22 is a list of archaic legal prescriptions. For example, wearing clothing made from two different types of fiber is forbidden. Obviously, that isn’t something we pay attention to today.

And some of it is breathtaking in its brutality. If a woman isn’t actually a virgin on her wedding night, and she had led her new husband to believe she was, the city elders “shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsmen shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house.”

Or if a man rapes a virgin, he shall be put to death… but only if she is already engaged. If she isn’t engaged, then he shall be required to marry her.

usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy22.htm

 

[Jermosh]

The problem with taking Bible verses out of context is that they lose their meaning. Deuteronomy 22 is a list of archaic legal prescriptions. For example, wearing clothing made from two different types of fiber is forbidden. Obviously, that isn’t something we pay attention to today.

And some of it is breathtaking in its brutality. If a woman isn’t actually a virgin on her wedding night, and she had led her new husband to believe she was, the city elders “shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsmen shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house.”

Or if a man rapes a virgin, he shall be put to death… but only if she is already engaged. If she isn’t engaged, then he shall be required to marry her.

usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy22.htm

 

[Zatzat]

The problem with taking Bible verses out of context is that they lose their meaning. Deuteronomy 22 is a list of archaic legal prescriptions. For example, wearing clothing made from two different types of fiber is forbidden. Obviously, that isn’t something we pay attention to today.

And some of it is breathtaking in its brutality. If a woman isn’t actually a virgin on her wedding night, and she had led her new husband to believe she was, the city elders “shall bring the girl to the entrance of her father’s house and there her townsmen shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father’s house.”

Or if a man rapes a virgin, he shall be put to death… but only if she is already engaged. If she isn’t engaged, then he shall be required to marry her.

usccb.org/nab/bible/deuteronomy/deuteronomy22.htm

THANK YOU SO MUCH for pointing out to the Bible quote cherry pickers that Deuteronomy 22 is filled with barbaric commands, as well as commands that are not only ignored by modern Christian society, but also rather inane.

’ You shall not plow with an ox and an *** harnessed together.’

’ "You shall put twisted cords on the four corners of the cloak that you wrap around you.’

"If, however, it is in the open fields that a man comes upon such a betrothed maiden, seizes her and has relations with her, the man alone shall die.’

 

[thistle]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for pointing out to the Bible quote cherry pickers that Deuteronomy 22 is filled with barbaric commands, as well as commands that are not only ignored by modern Christian society, but also rather inane.

’ You shall not plow with an ox and an *** harnessed together.’

’ "You shall put twisted cords on the four corners of the cloak that you wrap around you.’

"If, however, it is in the open fields that a man comes upon such a betrothed maiden, seizes her and has relations with her, the man alone shall die.’

How are the following out of context?

Rom 1:18-28

18 The wrath of God is indeed being revealed from heaven against every impiety and wickedness of those who suppress the truth by their wickedness.

19 For what can be known about God is evident to them, because God made it evident to them.

20 Ever since the creation of the world, his invisible attributes of eternal power and divinity have been able to be understood and perceived in what he has made. As a result, they have no excuse;

21 for although they knew God they did not accord him glory as God or give him thanks. Instead, they became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless minds were darkened.

22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools

23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.

24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts 15 for the mutual degradation of their bodies.

**25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,

27 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God handed them over to their undiscerning mind to do what is improper. **

1 Cor 6:9-10

9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes **nor practicing homosexuals **

10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Zatzat]

1 Cor 6:9-10

9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes **nor practicing homosexuals **

What’s your point?

usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians6.htm
The New American Bible, from the American Conference of Catholic Bishops;

1 Cor 6:9-10

Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

No mention of ’ practicing homosexuals’ or homosexuals of any kind in the Catholic Bible.

Not only do we have Bible quote cherry pickers, but we have Bible version cherry pickers.

 

[dusza]

what a lovely christian response …NOT !!!

it is due to the ignorance on this issue why transsex , transgender and intersex PEOPLE are victims of high rates of murder , beatings , constant harrassment and discrimination. does that sound very blissful to you ?

Neither blissful nor surprising, but that wasn’t my point and you know it. Why would trans-whatever terminology be useful to a Christian? Incidentally, prostitutes and drug dealers also have very high murder rates, though not as high as unborn children. The people I feel for are those who are given a cross to carry, not those who are perverse by choice and proud of it. I saw a cross-dresser at Vespers once and I didn’t harass him (yes, it was a HE even if his perverse mind told him otherwise). I prayed for him, but how he classified himself is absolutely of no consequence. When people (especially children) are expected to know the difference between a cross-dresser and transgender, you know we’ve lost our innocence and that’s sad. I don’t know how you arrived at innocence (ignorance of sexual perversions) as being un-Christian.

 

[Stylites]

It is a sin to even talk about what sinners do in the darkness of their lives.

.

 

[Zatzat]

Why would trans-whatever terminology be useful to a Christian?

Because we all live in the same communities. Or, you can stick your head in the sand and pretend that they don’t exist.

 

[Zatzat]

It is a sin to even talk about what sinners do in the darkness of their lives.

.

Hmmmm…do you care to back that up with references from your Church?

 

[Dale_M]

How are the following out of context?

I’m not sure they are, but they seem barely relevant to this discussion. I think the primary focus of the thread is one of transgender definitions. Homosexuality isn’t necessarily involved in being transgender, although (of course) some transgender persons may be homosexual.

 

[OraLabora]

Wow some really uncharitable and downright ignorant responses on this thread from people who claim to be Christian. Have Christians forgotten the “greatest commandment”?

People with these conditions suffer greatly from them.

What does Jesus say about care for the suffering?

And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty.

And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.

Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me.

Sounds like Jesus was commanding is to not judge, but visit those in need unconditionally. He didn’t say to only visit those unjustly imprisoned.

I would also point out that quotes relating to homosexuality are completely irrelevant to discussions about gender identity, as they are two entirely different issues. Facts are just a Google away…

There are Catholics struggling with these issues just as there are Catholics struggling with drug abuse, alcohol abuse, bipolar disorder, depression, schizophrenia, and the list goes on. Yes we are a fallen species, for which God sent His only begotten Son to die on the Cross for us.

Nobody is excluded from that redeeming work. Let he who is without sin, personality disorder, psychological issues or illness cast the first stone…

 

[aussie_jaz]

but that wasn’t my point and you know it.

so what exactly was your point ?

Why would trans-whatever terminology be useful to a Christian?

as it is for anyone else , so you dont assume that each one of them is a sexual perversion. some are for their fetishes , some are their employment , some have biological reasons and some are just for shock value.

Incidentally, prostitutes and drug dealers also have very high murder rates

yes but are they murdered for what they do or for what/who they are ?

The people I feel for are those who are given a cross to carry, not those who are perverse by choice and proud of it

but do you know the difference between them ? not klnowing the terminology doesnt help you out on that one

I saw a cross-dresser at Vespers once and I didn’t harass him (yes, it was a HE even if his perverse mind told him otherwise). I prayed for him, but how he classified himself is absolutely of no consequence.

how do you know the person was a crossdresser ? crossdressers do their thing in private most of the time so your probably not right there. possibly a transvestite or a performer on a break ? perhaps a transgender person or transsex who couldnt pass too well ?

When people (especially children) are expected to know the difference between a cross-dresser and transgender, you know we’ve lost our innocence and that’s sad. I don’t know how you arrived at innocence (ignorance of sexual perversions) as being un-Christian.

hows about applying some christian charity to the situation and getting to know whether a person is practising a fetish , acting by their employment or correcting natures pre birth mistakes

 

[thistle]

What’s your point?

usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians6.htm
The New American Bible, from the American Conference of Catholic Bishops;

1 Cor 6:9-10

Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.

No mention of ’ practicing homosexuals’ or homosexuals of any kind in the Catholic Bible.

Not only do we have Bible quote cherry pickers, but we have Bible version cherry pickers.

My quote (“practising homosexuals”) is from The New American Bible.
By the way a sodomite IS a practising homosexual although it also has a wider meaning of a man having anal sex with a man, woman, or animal, all of which are disgusting and an affront to God.