I’m not sure which New American Bible you’re referring too, but it certainly isn’t the New American Bible that your Bishops read.My quote (“practising homosexuals”) is from The New American Bible.
By the way a sodomite IS a practising homosexual although it also has a wider meaning of a man having anal sex with a man, woman, or animal, all of which are disgusting and an affront to God.
His quotes seem to be taken from the online NAB which is at the website of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.I’m not sure which New American Bible you’re referring too, but it certainly isn’t the New American Bible that your Bishops read.
1 Corinthians 6 from the link provided, which was also my link, doesn’t mention ’ practicing homosexuals’ which is what was posted…rather ’ sodomities.’His quotes seem to be taken from the online NAB which is at the website of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Romans 1
usccb.org/nab/bible/romans/romans1.htm
1 Corinthians 6
usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians6.htm
You shouldn’t speak about subjects which you are not knowledgeble in. Transgender have nothing to do with sex.Neither blissful nor surprising, but that wasn’t my point and you know it. Why would trans-whatever terminology be useful to a Christian? Incidentally, prostitutes and drug dealers also have very high murder rates, though not as high as unborn children. The people I feel for are those who are given a cross to carry, not those who are perverse by choice and proud of it. I saw a cross-dresser at Vespers once and I didn’t harass him (yes, it was a HE even if his perverse mind told him otherwise). I prayed for him, but how he classified himself is absolutely of no consequence. When people (especially children) are expected to know the difference between a cross-dresser and transgender, you know we’ve lost our innocence and that’s sad. I don’t know how you arrived at innocence (ignorance of sexual perversions) as being un-Christian.
As that sentence does - and so does this oneIt is a sin to even talk about what sinners do in the darkness of their lives.
OK, I’ll try to help. There is a problem, in that some of these words are evolving; that some people use them to mean different things; and that the opinions of the people they refer to are largely ignored, others get to define them against their will.Ok, so I’m confused as to what the difference is between these two. Transexual, transgender, transvestite, cross-dresser, drag-queen, drag-king… what do all these mean?
Drag kings are mostly female performance artists who dress in masculine drag and personify male gender stereotypes as part of their performance… Drag kings often perform as exaggeratedly macho male characters
A drag queen is usually a man who dresses, and usually acts, like a caricature woman often for the purpose of entertaining or performing. …Generally, drag queens dress in a female gender role, often exaggerating certain characteristics (such as make-up and eyelashes) for comic, dramatic or satirical effect.
Diagnostic Criteria for 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism
Note that this can only apply to a straight male, not a gay one. And cannot apply to females, even if they get a sexual thrill out of dressing as men and even using various prosthetic devices during sex to simulate masculinity. It’s all a bit inconsistent.Code:* A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing. * B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significcant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
The Sound-Byte: anatomically mixed, an intersex condition. Girl Body, Boy Brain, or the reverse.The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality.
Diagnostic Criteria for gender Identity Disorder
Code:* A A strong persistent cross-gender identification (not merely a desire for any perceived cultural advantages of being the other sex). In children, the disturbance is manifested by four (or more) of the following: 1. Repeatedly stated desire to be, or insistence that he or she is, the other sex. 2. In boys, preference for cross-dressing or simulating female attire; In girls, insistence on wearing only stereotypical masculine clothing. 3. Strong and persistent preferences for cross-sex roles in make believe play or persistent fantasies of being the other sex. 4. Intense desire to participate in the stereotypical games and pastimes of the other sex. 5. Strong preference for playmates of the other sex.
Code:In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as a stated desire to be the other sex, frequent passing as the other sex, desire to live or be treated as the other sex, or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex. * B Persistent discomfort with his or her sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.
Code:In children, the disturbance is manifested by any of the following: In boys, assertion that his penis or testes are disgusting or will disappear or assertion that it would be better not to have a penis, or aversion toward rough-and-tumble play and rejection of male stereotypical toys, games, and activities. In girls, rejection of urinating in a sitting position, assertion that she has or will grow a penis, or assertion that she does not want to grow breasts or menstruate, or marked aversion toward normative feminine clothing.
All 4 criteria must be met.Code:In adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics (e.g., request for hormones, surgery, or other procedures to physically alter sexual characteristics to simulate the other sex) or belief that he or she was born the wrong sex. * C. The disturbance is not concurrent with physical intersex condition. * D. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
Code:1. Authority
Code:We affirm that the Bible is the authoritative source of knowledge for psychology and counseling as in all other areas of life. We deny that any other source of knowledge is equally authoritative with the Bible for psychology and counseling.
Code:2. Applicability
Code:We affirm that the subject matter of counseling is precisely the same as that of the Bible and, therefore, the Bible completely equips us with the theory and principles of counseling. We deny that the Bible is inadequate for the theory and practice of counseling. ... 6. Scientific Method
This latter was used to justify the selective quotations, distortions, and sometimes completely manufactured data used in Dr Cameron’s and Dr Rekers’ papers - professional misconduct which has led to one of them being expelled by professional associations, and the other of which has been censured for giving misleading and incomplete evidence in courts. You’ll find them both extensively quoted by Catholic bioethicists who are unaware of their history - and by many people on this site.Code:We affirm that the scientific method is useful in carrying out the creation mandate of Genesis 1:28 to subdue and have dominion over creation when the investigators have Biblical presuppositions and when the Bible does not directly give us the answers we seek; that the use of the scientific method is entirely controlled by the presuppositions of the investigators and therefore the results are a pronouncement of faith rather than of scientific fact...We deny that the scientific method can ever be applied in psychology without its being thoroughly determined by the presuppositions of the investigators.
We deny that … the so-called offenses of “emotional neglect,” “emotional abuse,” “educational neglect,” etc., which form the bulk of substantiated reports of “child abuse and neglect,” are in fact crimes against children;
We affirm that Biblical spanking may cause temporary and superficial bruises or welts that do not constitute child abuse, but that proven brutality to a child resulting in permanent disfigurement or serious injury should be punished by law (Exodus 21:23,24; Proverbs 13:24; 22:15; 23:13,14).
Sodomy is an abomination and must be avoided even between a husband and wife (male and female).I’m not sure which New American Bible you’re referring too, but it certainly isn’t the New American Bible that your Bishops read.
In any event, from what I gather from your explanation, one must simply avoid sodomy and all will be well in the eyes of your God.
yes?
Interesting that you recognise the existence of marriages other than between a man and a woman.Sex is only moral within a marriage of a man and a woman.
I don’t agree with your or your male dominated Church’s subjective opinion.Sodomy is an abomination and must be avoided even between a husband and wife (male and female).
I don’t agree with your or your male dominated Church’s subjective opinion.Sex is only moral within a marriage of a man and a woman.
I don’t agree with your or your male dominated Church’s subjective opinion.Sex outside that marriage is a grave sin.
I don’t agree with your or your male dominated Church’s subjective opinion.Sex between man/man or woman/woman is not only a grave sin but it is also gravely disordered and depraved.
I don’t think it’s very helpful when a Church pry’s into the private affairs of adults and what they do in the bedroom.By the way I copied and pasted from The New American Bible on the official Vatican website:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/_INDEX.HTM
Don’t know if you are just being silly or you really misunderstood!!Interesting that you recognise the existence of marriages other than between a man and a woman.
Now please define “man” and “woman”, if you’d be so kind. Given the existence of Intersexed people… some of whom naturally change sex over the course of a lifetime.
Not that this has anything whatsoever to do with the original question.
Actually, persons of the same sex can and do marry. In many cases, some choose to get married in Christian Church’s and they receive Gods blessing upon their marriage.I was specifying that marriage is between a man and woman. It is not between a man/man or woman/woman.
What’s there to pray about? Surely you recognize that God has permitted the genetic flaw in the first place and apparently for a grand mysterious reason! Why would you pray, as the genetic flaw is obviously according to Gods will…or he’d have changed it.Intersexed is a rare condition caused by genetic flaws. We should pray for such unfortunate souls.
Pray that others will see the light, see them as God’s children and cease to be so harsh on them for something that isn’t their own fault.What’s there to pray about? Surely you recognize that God has permitted the genetic flaw in the first place and apparently for a grand mysterious reason! Why would you pray, as the genetic flaw is obviously according to Gods will…or he’d have changed it.
So if they have 5ARD or 17BHDD syndromes and change sex - as some (not all) do… then even if they father children, they’re still female as they were at birth?A man or woman is defined by their biological sex at birth.
Otherwise knows as 5-alpha-reductase-2 deficiency syndrome, 5ARD for short.In an isolated village of the southwestern Dominican Republic, 2% of the live births were in the 1970’s, guevedoces (actually male pseudohermaphrodites). These children appeared to be girls at birth, but at puberty these ‘girls’ sprout muscles, testes, and a penis. For the rest of their lives they are men in nearly all respects (see photograph 6 below). Their underlying pathology was found to be a deficiency of the enzyme, 5-alpha Reductase.
He really meant Transsexual - as I said, Transgender is sometimes used as a synonym; and by “opposite sex” he really meant apparently opposite sex. But you get the idea.We showed how Transgender Brains think, smell, and hear like the opposite sex.
So does that mean you think transvestism and transsexualism are perversions or what? You havent gotten down to brass tacks yet.Aren’t you glad you asked, OP? As you can tell by now, there are many more definitions then there are labels. And there are lots of labels.
There is a similar thing going on in the community of deaf people. Because of the challenges of being deaf, they form communities in the process of education and the struggle to integrate into society. Some deaf people marry each other and have deaf children. Some of these deaf parents are advised by doctors that the genetic condition that causes deafness in their child can be addressed via surgery early in life and the irregularity corrected. Here’s where it gets surreal. Some of these parents have absolutely refused to allow the operation and believe that their civil rights were violated just because the doctor asked with the presumption that the defect should be corrected! They deny their children the chance to hear.
What has this got to do with gender confusion? Everything. There is a bewildering array of things that can malfunction in human beings, both physically and spiritually. The trick is to identify what is healthy and normative and not lose sight of that along the way. All the deaf support measures are excellent and to be lauded right up to and not across the point where they would deny hearing to someone who has the potential to achieve it. Same goes for sexuality. We don’t have the luxury of a divinely inspired guidebook detailing how to approach each and every scenario. But we DO have a revelation for what God created human sexuality to be. And we need to continue to hold that ideal up.
Why some people have problems that may permanently prevent them from living out that plan as God intended I do not know (any more than I know why some people are irreversibly deaf). But I do know that pastoral care for them will cease to be pastoral once it stops holding up God’s plan for human sexuality as the only proper one. As another poster has noted, we can’t expect non-christians to put any faith in the revelation of our faith as long as it is so poorly understood scientifically. And in today’s politicized scientific climate, clarity isn’t coming any time soon. (For example see how Zoe takes pains to expose malfeasance on one side, but says nothing of the legion of unethical behavior and malpractice in the Kinseyite sexuality camp of science). You can’t argue someone into the faith anyways. It takes a life lived.
The key thing to remember here is that we must refrain from the temptation of classifying OTHER people’s sins as the uber-sin. THAT is the source of the past violence against those with sexual struggles. There is plenty of sexual perversion in the plain old heterosexual world too. All of it is something to regret, not get angry about. It is dishonest for activists to claim that the ethical opposition to sexually perverted behavior leads to violence against its practitioners. Nonsense. NOBODY anymore is a supporter or enabler of alcoholism, but nobody goes looking for an alcoholic to drag behind his pickup truck either. We’ve matured as a culture on this issue to where we can recognize the behavior of alcoholism as disordered while still offering love and compassion to alcoholics without enabling them. We can do the same with those who struggle with sexual problems.
That’s because I know nothing about that area.And in today’s politicized scientific climate, clarity isn’t coming any time soon. (For example see how Zoe takes pains to expose malfeasance on one side, but says nothing of the legion of unethical behavior and malpractice in the Kinseyite sexuality camp of science).
Thankfully for you, ignorance of a subject like sex is not something one needs to appologise for False accusations of intellectual dishonesty probably are though. I’ve appreciated your posts here.That’s because I know nothing about that area.
That’s about sexuality, sexual orientation and sexual behaviour, not sexual anatomy.
I’ve said in the past that “transsexuality” and intersex have nothing to do with sex as such. I’m the last person you should consult in that latter area, I’m rather ignorant and even more prudish. Homophobic too. Sorry. It’s worse than mere bias, it’s sheer ignorance on my part.