Travel Ban Unconstitutional? Well, Democrats Did It, Too.

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sallybutler said:
Weren’t we at war with Iraq? Are we currently at war with these 7 countries?
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The last US declaration of war was WWII. We’ve had travel bans since that time. But we have bombed five of the seven restricted countries in the last year. Those are certainly acts of war.
 
My understanding is the court ruling only applies to those already here or those in transit
 
There is one other factor with SaudiArabia. If US intelligence gives the Saudi’s information on terrorists within it’s borders, the Saudisgenerally act immediately and arrest the person.

That is not true of Iran or Syria, or even Pakistan.
 
kat07 said:
Yes, Obama restricted visa waivers for the same seven Muslim that now Trump is temporarily (4mos, except Syria no time ban), barring immigration and visitors from. Quite remarkable that no one complained when the Obama administration selected these countries. There was a Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 two years before Trump. There was a kind of “Muslim ban” before the “Muslin ban”? But almost no one critiqued it in 2015 because it was Obama’s administration overseeing it. Either due to ignorance or because of unwillingness to read the EO and ask questions and because they are too ready to accept facts without investigating there are many who want to blame Trump for a “Muslim ban” because they were probably ready with that script since last year. Furthermore, it’s not even a “ban” it’s a “ban with exceptions”. The great thing is that Trump is setting up the media yet again. “These “bans” were originally put in place by Obama. Obama’s administration made the “Muslim ban” possible and the media won’t tell you.”
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From what I understamd, the visa waiver didn’t actually bar anyone from entering. It required immigrants to be vetted for a visa, if they would be in country more than 90 days. Trump’s EO, bans refugees as well as green card holders and permanent residents. I agree that incoming immigrants/refugees should be vetted; however, barring ones that have already been vetted and have approved visas is wrong.
 
Tim_D said:
That’s news to me. If the US was at war with Iran, why did we not pulverize them?
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Because we wanted our hostages back. That took us into Reagan’s administration.

Maybe I am wrong. Maybe attacking an embassy is not considered an act of war. Because an embassy, is after all, only considered a sovereign piece of one country located in another country and to be treated as such. Isn’t that why Assange hiding out in an embassy?
 
kat07 said:
Yes, Obama restricted visa waivers for the same seven Muslim that now Trump is temporarily (4mos, except Syria no time ban), barring immigration and visitors from. Quite remarkable that no one complained when the Obama administration selected these countries. There was a Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 two years before Trump. There was a kind of “Muslim ban” before the “Muslin ban”? But almost no one critiqued it in 2015 because it was Obama’s administration overseeing it. Either due to ignorance or because of unwillingness to read the EO and ask questions and because they are too ready to accept facts without investigating there are many who want to blame Trump for a “Muslim ban” because they were probably ready with that script since last year. Furthermore, it’s not even a “ban” it’s a “ban with exceptions”. The great thing is that Trump is setting up the media yet again. “These “bans” were originally put in place by Obama. Obama’s administration made the “Muslim ban” possible and the media won’t tell you.”
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like I keep saying, if it were a “muslim ban” then he would have had to ban half of the earth’s countries.

not that I think he chose the smartest way to do this, by the way, he could have delayed all immigration processes or increased security without the ban without sending everyone in to hysterics over this. and there are other countries that I thought are bigger threats personally, in regards to terrorist activity. and yes, is someone has already been cleared beforehand, it’s just pointless
 
Stylteralmaldo said:
Does that matter in your mind? If so, why?
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Were any of those 7 countries believed to be complicit in the terrorist attacks of 9/11? San Bernardino? Sandy Hook? Yes, it matters. Of course it matters. If not, then Trump needs to stop invoking 9/11 to ban college kids and interpreters helping our Armed Forces and Oscar nominated filmmakers from entering our country.
 
sunnygirl807 said:
From what I understamd, the visa waiver didn’t actually bar anyone from entering. It required immigrants to be vetted for a visa, if they would be in country more than 90 days. Trump’s EO, bans refugees as well as green card holders and permanent residents. I agree that incoming immigrants/refugees should be vetted; however, barring ones that have already been vetted and have approved visas is wrong.
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As part of the law which was signed into law on December 18, 2015 was the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016. Under the Act there were new eligibility requirements for VWP travel, and travelers in certain categories were no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the US under the VWP.

Under that Act travelers in the following categories were no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the US under the VWP.
  • Nationals of VWP countries mentioned at any time on or after March 1, 2011 w/limited gov/military exceptions.
  • Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in those countries mentioned any time on or after March, 1 2011 w/limited gov/military exceptions.
The EO “ban” is not without exceptions. There are categories of visa holders who still may enter even from those 7 countries. There is also a halt to refugee processing, but it is temporary.

Dual nationals who are U.S. citizens are not affected. The EO only applies to dual nationals from the 7 countries who travel on the passport of another non-U.S. country.

Green Cards from those 7 countries will be handled on a case-by-case basis.
 
kat07 said:
As part of the law which was signed into law on December 18, 2015 was the Omnibus Appropriations Act of FY2016. Under the Act there were new eligibility requirements for VWP travel, and travelers in certain categories were no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the US under the VWP.

Under that Act travelers in the following categories were no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the US under the VWP.
  • Nationals of VWP countries mentioned at any time on or after March 1, 2011 w/limited gov/military exceptions.
  • Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in those countries mentioned any time on or after March, 1 2011 w/limited gov/military exceptions.
The EO “ban” is not without exceptions. There are categories of visa holders who still may enter even from those 7 countries. There is also a halt to refugee processing, but it is temporary.

Dual nationals who are U.S. citizens are not affected. The EO only applies to dual nationals from the 7 countries who travel on the passport of another non-U.S. country.

Green Cards from those 7 countries will be handled on a case-by-case basis.
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Residents from those states would not be allowed to travel to the US using the VWP. This law only required them to apply and be approved for a visa. This is totally different from Trump’s EO.
 
Suudy said:
Amid a furor over President Trump’s temporary ban on immigrants and refugees from seven predominantly Muslim countries, it’s worth taking a brief look back at the historic precedence for such a move.

Although almost no one mentions it, two Democratic presidents have done the exact same thing in the modern era, both times for much longer periods.

After the 2009 discovery that two al Qaeda terrorists were living as refugees in Bowling Green, Ky., President Obama took action. “As a result of the Kentucky case, the State Department stopped processing Iraq refugees for six months in 2011, federal officials told ABC News – even for many who had heroically helped U.S. forces as interpreters and intelligence assets,” ABC New reported in 2013. “One Iraqi who had aided American troops was assassinated before his refugee application could be processed, because of the immigration delays, two U.S. officials said. In 2011, fewer than 10,000 Iraqis were resettled as refugees in the U.S., half the number from the year before, State Department statistics show.”

dailywire.com/news/12901/travel-ban-unconstitutional-well-democrats-did-it-joseph-curl
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Playground argument.
 
sallybutler said:
Iran had attacked our embassy, thereby declaring war on the US. Clearly it did matter to Carter.

Obama was continuing the war begun by Bush.
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Let me get this straight:

Are you suggesting that because we are not fighting a recognized nation-state in ISIS that we can use red-tape bureaucratic arguments to admit potentially hostile refugees to this country?
 
SuperLuigi said:
Let me get this straight:

Are you suggesting that because we are not fighting a recognized nation-state in ISIS that we can use red-tape bureaucratic arguments to admit potentially hostile refugees to this country?
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No. I am suggesting that the countries selected by Carter and Obama were narrow and specific to countries that the U.S. had immediate and current conflicts with.

Btw, I think Trump missed a few countries.
 
sunnygirl807 said:
Pakistan and Saudi are not hotbeds of terrorism? That’s news to me. The majority of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi. Pakistan harboured bin Laden and the Taliban. I feel it’s odd that Afghanistan didn’t make the list either.

Many of those detained were permanent residents that have already been vetted.
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That’s what I was thinking. Otoh I don’t know if those countries have any Trump hotels or other property with Trump’s name on them. It appears Trump doesn’t have business interests in his chosen 7.

nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-excludes-countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956

A 5 yr old American citizen and Maryland resident was detained and kept from his mother.

baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/01/29/senator-maryland-5-year-old-among-those-detained-at-dulles/

deathandtaxesmag.com/316692/5-year-old-detained-dulles-airport-kept-from-mother/
 
Sy_Noe said:
That’s what I was thinking. Otoh I don’t know if those countries have any Trump hotels or other property with Trump’s name on them. It appears Trump doesn’t have business interests in his chosen 7.

nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-excludes-countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956

A 5 yr old American citizen and Maryland resident was detained and kept from his mother.

baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/01/29/senator-maryland-5-year-old-among-those-detained-at-dulles/

deathandtaxesmag.com/316692/5-year-old-detained-dulles-airport-kept-from-mother/
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Turkey does – Istanbul, Turkey

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Towers_Istanbul
 
Sy_Noe said:
That’s what I was thinking. Otoh I don’t know if those countries have any Trump hotels or other property with Trump’s name on them. It appears Trump doesn’t have business interests in his chosen 7.
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Yeah, and can someone please remind me which of those 7 countries gave us the terrorists who attacked Americans in Orlando and San Bernardino? Facts can be a little inconvenient when they get of the way of trying to justify the rationale for this EO. I have heard of short-term memory, but selective memory is something else.
 
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