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Scott_Lafrance
Guest
Something wrong with disregarding the police dispatcher when directly told NOT to follow the “suspect” and let the police handle it.
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FromTheAshes777
Guest
I agree. Playing cop by anyone who is not a police officer is problematic and can lead to very bad situations, especially if they are carrying any type of weapon, rather it be a firearm or anything else.
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OrdinaryMelkite
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OrdinaryMelkite
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Very much true.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
Thank you for this. I was hoping somebody would put that up.
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L_piperatus
Guest
I recall the relatively recent case of “Beat Whitey Night” at the State Fair in 2010 in Des Moines, Iowa, and how the police spokesperson Sgt. Lori Lavorato was reassigned to traffic police duty after she said that it’s very possible that Beat Whitey Night had racial overtones. I tried to find the original report at the Des Moines Register about Sgt. Lori Lavorato’s reassignment, but all they have now on their website is this: “Unfortunately, that page could not be found.” - see desmoinesregister.com/Story_not_found .
Seems like not only police spokespersons can not suggest that Beat Whitey Night had racial overtones without getting punished for it, but the media (Des Moines Register) is censoring itself, even scrubbing it’s report about Sgt. Lori Lavorato’s reassignment! 
Fortunately, though, I could reconstruct the story from other sources who did document everything, including the Des Moines Register’s now-scrubbed report.
Beat Whitey Night - Attacks mar Iowa State Fair - NBC-2.com WBBH News
see at: youtube.com/watch?v=7qeMslmDBxY
Similar incidents at Wisconsin’s State Fair:
Hundreds of racist Black youths attack Whites at Wisconsin State Fair
see at: youtube.com/watch?v=D4F8ob9nlfY&feature=related
Back to Iowa - here’s what Sgt. Lori Lavorato said according to moonbattery.com/archives/2010/08/police-piece-to.html :
“We don’t know if this was juveniles fighting or a group of kids singling out white citizens leaving the fairgrounds,” Sgt. Lori Lavorato said. “It’s all under investigation, but it’s very possible it has racial overtones.”
And here’s one police report that served as the basis for the suspicion:
Sgt. David Murillo stated in a report on Friday night, “On-duty officers at the fairgrounds advise there was a group of 30 to 40 individuals roaming the fairgrounds openly calling it ‘beat whitey night.’”
Also, according to witnesses, the perpetrators were black youths who attacked white people, they did not attack other black people.
Then, here’s one Iowa lawmaker’s conclusion, still according to the news source I linked to above:
State Rep. Ako Abdul-Samad, D-Des Moines, who has worked to fight gang-related violence, said he doesn’t have enough information to decide if the fights were racially motivated. …
He added, “We of course need to work on race relations. If anyone says we don’t, they are playing games with themselves.”
And here’s the Des Moines Register’s now-scrubbed report about Sgt. Lavorato’s reassignment, quoted from this website which fortunately re-posted the original report - quote from alternativeright.com/main/blogs/zeitgeist/was-beat-whitey-night-really-about-race/ :
Was “Beat Whitey Night” Really About Race?
By Richard Spencer
Police spokeswoman moved after remarks on fairgrounds fights
Demoines Register, Sept. 3, 2010
By Daniel P. Finney
Des Moines Police Chief Judy Bradshaw reassigned her department’s spokeswoman Thursday, two weeks after Sgt. Lori Lavorato said it was “very possible” fights near the Iowa State Fairgrounds had racial overtones. The move came as a part of a series of police command assignment changes announced to officers by e-mail Thursday, the details of which have not been made public.
Bradshaw, who could not be reached for comment Thursday, raised concerns about statements Lavorato made after a series of fights outside the fairgrounds last month. A supplemental report about the Aug. 20 incident filed by Sgt. Dave Murillo said, "On-duty officers at the fairgrounds advise there was a group of 30 to 40 individuals roaming the fairgrounds openly calling it ‘beat whitey night.’ " While answering questions from the news media three days later, Lavorato said, “It’s all under investigation, but it’s very possible it has racial overtones.”
Police commanders later said they found no credible evidence the fights were racially motivated. "I had some real concerns with us making that leap and making a remark like that publicly," Bradshaw told The Des Moines Register in an Aug. 26 interview. “That’s a huge statement that, quite frankly, can provoke emotions on both sides of the issue. "People are very sensitive to remarks like that, so I had some real grave concerns about us stepping out and I wanted to make certain that we were right to message the State Fair events that way.”
On Thursday, Des Moines police administrators did not return phone calls from the Register seeking comment and did not release a full list of administrative changes at the department. Bradshaw was out of the office and did not return a call to her cell phone. Messages left for Assistant Chiefs James O’Donnell and David Lillard also were not returned. Lavorato, 36, a police public information officer since May 2009, will work in the department’s traffic unit. Sgt. Jeff Edwards, 40, will transfer from the traffic unit to replace Lavorato effective Sept. 13.
Demoines Register, Sept. 3, 2010
By Daniel P. Finney
Des Moines Police Chief Judy Bradshaw reassigned her department’s spokeswoman Thursday, two weeks after Sgt. Lori Lavorato said it was “very possible” fights near the Iowa State Fairgrounds had racial overtones. The move came as a part of a series of police command assignment changes announced to officers by e-mail Thursday, the details of which have not been made public.
Bradshaw, who could not be reached for comment Thursday, raised concerns about statements Lavorato made after a series of fights outside the fairgrounds last month. A supplemental report about the Aug. 20 incident filed by Sgt. Dave Murillo said, "On-duty officers at the fairgrounds advise there was a group of 30 to 40 individuals roaming the fairgrounds openly calling it ‘beat whitey night.’ " While answering questions from the news media three days later, Lavorato said, “It’s all under investigation, but it’s very possible it has racial overtones.”
Police commanders later said they found no credible evidence the fights were racially motivated. "I had some real concerns with us making that leap and making a remark like that publicly," Bradshaw told The Des Moines Register in an Aug. 26 interview. “That’s a huge statement that, quite frankly, can provoke emotions on both sides of the issue. "People are very sensitive to remarks like that, so I had some real grave concerns about us stepping out and I wanted to make certain that we were right to message the State Fair events that way.”
On Thursday, Des Moines police administrators did not return phone calls from the Register seeking comment and did not release a full list of administrative changes at the department. Bradshaw was out of the office and did not return a call to her cell phone. Messages left for Assistant Chiefs James O’Donnell and David Lillard also were not returned. Lavorato, 36, a police public information officer since May 2009, will work in the department’s traffic unit. Sgt. Jeff Edwards, 40, will transfer from the traffic unit to replace Lavorato effective Sept. 13.
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Dale_M
Guest
:ehh:I tried to find the original report at the Des Moines Register about Sgt. Lori Lavorato’s reassignment, but all they have now on their website is this: “Unfortunately, that page could not be found.” - see desmoinesregister.com/Story_not_found .
No, the Des Moines Register, like many news outlets in the US, only maintain their online stories for a set period of time. In the case of the Des Moines Register, this means 30 days. Pruning the online stories to only the most recent is a way of keeping expenses down.
If, however, you are willing to pay for access to an older story, the newspaper has contracted their archives out to a third party. Here is a link to buy the Daniel P. Finney article you cited.
pqasb.pqarchiver.com/desmoinesregister/access/2128456011.html?FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Sep+3%2C+2010&author=DANIEL+P+FINNEY&pub=Des+Moines+Register&edition=&startpage=B.2&desc=Police+spokeswoman+moved+after+remarks+on+fairgrounds+fights
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seekerz
Guest
And what does any of this have to do with Trayvon’s death? The existence of racism and racist attitudes or incidents anywhere, is wrong. That has no bearing on the continuing problem of a morally unacceptable practice which places young lives at risk, namely racial profiling.I recall the relatively recent case of “Beat Whitey Night” at the State Fair in 2010 in Des Moines, Iowa, and how the police spokesperson Sgt. Lori Lavorato was reassigned to traffic police duty after she said that it’s very possible that Beat Whitey Night had racial overtones. I tried to find the original report at the Des Moines Register about Sgt. Lori Lavorato’s reassignment, but all they have now on their website is this: “Unfortunately, that page could not be found.” - see desmoinesregister.com/Story_not_found .
Fortunately, though, I could reconstruct the story from other sources who did document everything, including the Des Moines Register’s now-scrubbed report.
Beat Whitey Night - Attacks mar Iowa State Fair - NBC-2.com WBBH News
see at: youtube.com/watch?v=7qeMslmDBxY
Similar incidents at Wisconsin’s State Fair:
Hundreds of racist Black youths attack Whites at Wisconsin State Fair
see at: youtube.com/watch?v=D4F8ob9nlfY&feature=related
Back to Iowa - here’s what Sgt. Lori Lavorato said according to moonbattery.com/archives/2010/08/police-piece-to.html :
“We don’t know if this was juveniles fighting or a group of kids singling out white citizens leaving the fairgrounds,” Sgt. Lori Lavorato said. “It’s all under investigation, but it’s very possible it has racial overtones.”
And here’s one police report that served as the basis for the suspicion:
Sgt. David Murillo stated in a report on Friday night, “On-duty officers at the fairgrounds advise there was a group of 30 to 40 individuals roaming the fairgrounds openly calling it ‘beat whitey night.’”
Also, according to witnesses, the perpetrators were black youths who attacked white people, they did not attack other black people.
Then, here’s one Iowa lawmaker’s conclusion, still according to the news source I linked to above:
State Rep. Ako Abdul-Samad, D-Des Moines, who has worked to fight gang-related violence, said he doesn’t have enough information to decide if the fights were racially motivated. …
He added, “We of course need to work on race relations. If anyone says we don’t, they are playing games with themselves.”
And here’s the Des Moines Register’s now-scrubbed report about Sgt. Lavorato’s reassignment, quoted from this website which fortunately re-posted the original report - quote from alternativeright.com/main/blogs/zeitgeist/was-beat-whitey-night-really-about-race/ :
Was “Beat Whitey Night” Really About Race?
By Richard Spencer
Police spokeswoman moved after remarks on fairgrounds fights
Demoines Register, Sept. 3, 2010
By Daniel P. Finney
Des Moines Police Chief Judy Bradshaw reassigned her department’s spokeswoman Thursday, two weeks after Sgt. Lori Lavorato said it was “very possible” fights near the Iowa State Fairgrounds had racial overtones. The move came as a part of a series of police command assignment changes announced to officers by e-mail Thursday, the details of which have not been made public.
Bradshaw, who could not be reached for comment Thursday, raised concerns about statements Lavorato made after a series of fights outside the fairgrounds last month. A supplemental report about the Aug. 20 incident filed by Sgt. Dave Murillo said, "On-duty officers at the fairgrounds advise there was a group of 30 to 40 individuals roaming the fairgrounds openly calling it ‘beat whitey night.’ " While answering questions from the news media three days later, Lavorato said, “It’s all under investigation, but it’s very possible it has racial overtones.”
Police commanders later said they found no credible evidence the fights were racially motivated. "I had some real concerns with us making that leap and making a remark like that publicly," Bradshaw told The Des Moines Register in an Aug. 26 interview. “That’s a huge statement that, quite frankly, can provoke emotions on both sides of the issue. "People are very sensitive to remarks like that, so I had some real grave concerns about us stepping out and I wanted to make certain that we were right to message the State Fair events that way.”
On Thursday, Des Moines police administrators did not return phone calls from the Register seeking comment and did not release a full list of administrative changes at the department. Bradshaw was out of the office and did not return a call to her cell phone. Messages left for Assistant Chiefs James O’Donnell and David Lillard also were not returned. Lavorato, 36, a police public information officer since May 2009, will work in the department’s traffic unit. Sgt. Jeff Edwards, 40, will transfer from the traffic unit to replace Lavorato effective Sept. 13.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Just so.
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Ghosty
Guest
Actually, murder laws generally don’t attempt to get into the murderer’s head, and motive is not a legal matter though it is often argued in court. Most criminal laws are far more objective than “hate crime” laws are, and that’s the problem I have with them.
No, his intent was quite clear. The ambiguity is in the motive for his action. Did he stalk and kill this person because he was Black, or because he was young and wearing a hoody? You can’t answer that, so you can’t establish this as a hate crime. Some crimes bear the objective marks of a hate crime, like a KKK lynching, or a person who always talks about wanting to “kill Mexicans” going out and beating a sleeping homeless man to death who “looks Latino”. Unless we can establish a pattern of racists behavior, specifically racism with an element of violence or the threat of violence, I don’t believe we can truly demonstrate a hate crime in this case.
There aren’t as many ambiguities in Zimmerman’s intent when it comes to the requirements for first or second degree murder under Florida law. We know that he stalked the man down because he said he was going to. We know that he had intent to harm because he stalked the man down and confronted him, which will reasonably lead to at least a scuffle. We know it was premeditated because he had time to consider whether or not to stalk the man down, and certainly enough time to decide to use force to bring him down. The only ambiguity is about whether he stalked with an intent to kill, or just to confront and do harm regardless of human life, and that is the difference between First and Second degree murder.
It couldn’t really be Manslaughter given the objective information, IMO, because Zimmerman had the intent to cause death, not merely harm, as shown by his use of a gun on the victim. Had they gotten in a scuffle and Trayvon died of a head injury that would fit Manslaughter better.
Aside from the possible racial slur used in the 911 call (and it’s not altogether clear whether or not he used a racial slur or simply said “punks”) there is no clear racial component in this case. This doesn’t mean the killing wasn’t racially motivated, only that it can’t be established to be based on what we know so far.
Peace and God bless!
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pnewton
Guest
This was my thought. What does dredging up another old case have to do with anything? Is this some lame attempt at two wrongs making a right? I have seen some thin defenses, but this takes the taco.
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seekerz
Guest
Do you listen to the news much? The history of Zimmerman’s calls to the police, his own references to race of the victim in the 911 call, the words of his partner in the Neighborhood Watch…all are heavily peppered with talk of the victim’s race.
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pnewton
Guest
Unless the tape was altered, the word was crystal clear to me. This is very much about race in the eyes of Zimmerman.
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Ghosty
Guest
The only thing we have from George Zimmerman regarding race is the 911 call, and it was the 911 operator who asked the race of the “suspect”. George Zimmerman described Trayvon for quite some time without mentioning his race, and had to be asked as standard protocol with 911 calls in order to identify the “suspect” when the police arrive.
If Zimmerman had called 911 and said “there’s a Black kid in my neighborhood” you’d have a point, but he didn’t even offer up that information without prodding from the 911 operator.
Peace and God bless!
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Ghosty
Guest
I admit I haven’t heard the uncensored call, and every version I’ve heard has that portion bleeped or silenced. I’m basing this purely on other people’s reports, and I’ve heard reasonable people say they heard different things.
EDIT: Found an uncensored version of the call, and I must admit I can’t tell what he’s saying. Could be either one to my hears. We need audio experts to slow it down and filter it, IMO.
Peace and God bless!
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pnewton
Guest
Here is the version I heard.
wftv.com/videos/news/original-zimmerman-controversial-comment-explicit/vGbyc/
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Charlotte408
Guest
From what I understand Zimmerman approached Trayvon, Trayvon got mouthy, the two started fighting, Trayvon got the upperhand (a neighbor saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman punching him) and Zimmerman pulled out his gun ‘in self defense’.
But no one is talking about Zimmerman being beat up
But no one is talking about Zimmerman being beat up
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Who has reported this? Even in today’s latest news report, the authorities haven’t said anything about this allegation.From what I understand Zimmerman approached Trayvon, Trayvon got mouthy, the two started fighting, Trayvon got the upperhand (a neighbor saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman punching him) and Zimmerman pulled out his gun ‘in self defense’.
But no one is talking about Zimmerman being beat up
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Charlotte408
Guest
Did Zimmerman have a bloody nose when the police got there? A head injury? Is the media reporting all the facts? I don’t know…
This is all very interesting though.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
Did the police say this to the media? It is my understanding that they didn’t arrest the shooter because Florida law protects people who shoot other folks as long as they say that they felt that they were in danger.
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