Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[JimR-OCDS]

Mauzer;

So your of the opinion that a sin isn’t a sin unless your caught?

I never said that.

So your argument has no pertinence. Lets save the judging for the Lord and those in the courts

I didn’t present an argument. Sorry you misinterpreted what I wrote.

Jim

 

[catharina]

The problem is, Martin has a history of trouble.

The problem is that Trayvon Martin is dead.

Any real or supposed
history of trouble was
completly unkown to
George Zimmerman.

 

[L_piperatus]

GZ’s brother speaking:

Robert Zimmerman, Jr. stuck up for his brother to CNN’s Piers Morgan Thursday night.

“He prevented his firearm from being taken from him and used against him, and that’s called saving your life,” he said.

Zimmerman said his brother shot Martin purely in self-defense, after the teenager attacked him last month. “You return force with force and when someone assaults you,” he said. “George was out of breath. He was barely conscious. The last thing that he remembers doing is moving his head from the concrete to the grass, so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn’t be wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother.”

But critics, including Martin’s parents, say recently released police surveillance video is proof Zimmerman’s a liar. Seen on the tape, Zimmerman had no obvious face or head injuries.

Zimmerman Jr., Thursday night said his brother still had a broken nose. "His nose, I don’t know about his head. I mean his nose is still healing. It’s not healed.

above quote from cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57406927/report-zimmerman-described-as-jekyll-and-hyde/

 

[seekerz]

So your of the opinion that a sin isn’t a sin unless your caught?

Let me explain, if John Doe is caught doing something wrong it teaches him that his actions were wrong and there is a possibility that he will be made to answer for his wrongdoing (we know we will all answer to the Lord, but I’m discussing Man’s law here) so he reforms his ways, does his penance, and becomes better for it.

Jack Doe does something wrong but is never caught, he has still committed a crime he just hasn’t been caught. So he commits another crime, possibly more egregious this time and still isn’t caught. All he has learned is how to get away with things better than John Doe.

So your argument has no pertinence. Lets save the judging for the Lord and those in the courts

You just judged then you say let’s leave judging for the courts. What sin/crime did Trayvon get away with?

 

[seekerz]

The problem is that Trayvon Martin is dead.

I concur. It seems disturbingly easy to lose sight of that obvious, unchangeable fact.

 

[Mauzer]

Mauzer;

I never said that.

I didn’t present an argument. Sorry you misinterpreted what I wrote.

Jim

I highlighted your “judgement” of Mr. Zimmerman, your opinion was your argument (an attempt to persuade someone of something). You stated that since Mr. Zimmerman was guilty of a previous crime so his story and possibly his character are somehow dubious. As far as the “sin not being a sin” unless your caught I may have misinterpreted your comment about Trayvon having no criminal past (remember he is only 17 so would have no public criminal record) I assumed you were implying that b/c he had never been caught by law enforcement he may be of higher moral character. I apologize for the assumption.

 

[Mauzer]

You just judged then you say let’s leave judging for the courts. What sin/crime did Trayvon get away with?

Who did I judge? I asked the poster if that was their opinion. I accused Trayvon of nothing, I simply gave a parable of John and Jack Doe

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I highlighted your “judgement” of Mr. Zimmerman, your opinion was your argument (an attempt to persuade someone of something). You stated that since Mr. Zimmerman was guilty of a previous crime so his story and possibly his character are somehow dubious. As far as the “sin not being a sin” unless your caught I may have misinterpreted your comment about Trayvon having no criminal past (remember he is only 17 so would have no public criminal record) I assumed you were implying that b/c he had never been caught by law enforcement he may be of higher moral character. I apologize for the assumption.

I presented what we know, not an argument.

Jim

 

[seekerz]

Who did I judge? I asked tho poster if that was their opinion. I accused Trayvon of nothing, I simply gave a parable of John and Jack Doe

You made a judgment between the two ‘Does’ , but seriously, there was a judgment implied in your question:

So your of the opinion that a sin isn’t a sin unless your caught?

 

[Mauzer]

I presented what we know, not an argument.

Jim

When you added “but it does show one of the men, ZImmerman, knows about the law, and has experience in getting off.” You presented an argument, we don’t “know” that about Mr. Zimmerman…it was conjecture on your part

 

[Mauzer]

You made a judgment between the two ‘Does’ , but seriously, there was a judgment implied in your question:

I understand, I apologize it does seem like a loaded question.

 

[maryjk]

The problem is that Trayvon Martin is dead.

Being dead doesn’t turn you into an angel. Okay, you know what I mean. Just because he died, doesn’t mean that everyone forgets what he did while here on earth.

Way back on the first thread I mentioned that Obama had a problem with speaking before he knew everything. I joked that it would be bad for him, Obama, if it was later found out that Martin was involved in the break-ins. That hasn’t happened, but we have found out that Martin wasn’t the sweet little boy shown in the picture.

 

[L_piperatus]

On the “white Hispanic” thing:

Trayvon Martin: Latino Silence over Zimmerman Draws Fire
Written By Soni Sangha
Published March 30, 2012
Fox News Latino

The shooting death of unarmed African-American teenager Trayvon Martin by a Latino man in Florida has provoked a national discussion about racism, ethnicity, and racial profiling in America—with the media referring to the shooter, George Zimmerman, as a “white Latino,” a term that has been greeted with derision by some.
Now critics are questioning why prominent Latino rights groups have remained on the sidelines of the discussion of race and the case.

Tweets indicate that a number of people are paying attention to his race --and questioning what a “White Latino” is. These discussions, while valid, show how little mainstream America knows about Latinos and minorities, experts say.
Does Race Play a Role Even Though George Zimmerman is not White?
“This is much more complex than simply saying this guy is Hispanic and we (Hispanics) have to defend Hispanics,” said Angelo Falcon, president of the National Institute for Latino Policy. “There is a whole question going on like, ‘Are Hispanics capable of being racist?’ ‘Why are they calling him a white Hispanic?’…

Read more: latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/30/trayvon-martin-latino-groups-under-fire-for-silence-over-zimmerman/#ixzz1qc1C35Cr

Well, I can answer pretty easily why they are calling him a white Hispanic. Because first they called him white, in order to put race-baiting into high gear. But then, as GZ’s photo was released, and he looks at least partly Hispanic, the race-baiters had to do something because continuing to call GZ “white” looked more and more ridiculous - thus the race-baiters came up with this compromise of calling him a “white Hispanic”.

 

[scipio337]

The problem is that Trayvon Martin is dead.

Any real or supposed
history of trouble was
completly unkown to
George Zimmerman.

But it would be pertinent to Zimmerman’s defense in court. His only defense is that he acted in self defense.

 

[L_piperatus]

March 30, 2012, 1:18 AM
George Zimmerman’s Brother Defends Trayvon Martin Shooting as New Video Is Released
By MATT FLEGENHEIMER

After Mr. Zimmerman and Trayvon first exchanged words, Robert Zimmerman said, his brother “drew back” to retrieve his phone and call 911 again, to report that “this person who I lost sight of and was not pursuing has now confronted me.”

Robert Zimmerman said, “He never got to make that call because he was attacked by Mr. Martin.”

Robert Zimmerman said his brother has been particularly disappointed that no neighbors had come outside to investigate the tussle before he shot Trayvon. “The whole situation, potentially, could have been avoided by just someone coming out and saying, ‘Hey, what’s going on out there?’” Robert Zimmerman said.

Instead, Mr. Zimmerman “prevented his firearm from being taken from him and used against him,” his brother said.

“That’s called saving your life,” he continued, explaining:

Nobody just stood there with a bag of Skittles and an iced tea. You return force with force when somebody assaults you. George was out of breath. He was barely conscious. His last thing he remembers doing was moving his head from the concrete to the grass so that if he was banged one more time, he wouldn’t be, you know, wearing diapers for the rest of his life and being spoon-fed by his brother. And there would have been George dead had he not acted decisively and instantaneously in that moment when he was being disarmed.

Robert Zimmerman’s account was based on communications with his brother “within 24 hours” of the shooting, he said.

Read more: thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03/30/george-zimmermans-brother-speaks-out-on-trayvon-martin-shooting/

 

[maryjk]

But it would be pertinent to Zimmerman’s defense in court. His only defense is that he acted in self defense.

And if Martin has a history of unprovoked attacks then that will be part of Zimmerman’s defense.

 

[catharina]

Being dead doesn’t turn you into an angel. Okay, you know what I mean. Just because he died, doesn’t mean that everyone forgets what he did while here on earth.

Way back on the first thread I mentioned that Obama had a problem with speaking before he knew everything. I joked that it would be bad for him, Obama, if it was later found out that Martin was involved in the break-ins. That hasn’t happened, but we have found out that Martin wasn’t the sweet little boy shown in the picture.

“WE?” Please speak for yourself.
Zimmerman found Travon “suspicious”

• based on nothing at all.
  That has’t changed and it can’t be changed.

 

[catharina]

And if Martin has a history of unprovoked attacks then that will be part of Zimmerman’s defense.

As quoted in Post # 37:

The New York Daily News reported Friday that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security guard for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying that “usually he was just a cool guy. … But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

 

[HailStarofSea]

Zimmerman has accused Trayvon Martin’s girlfriend of lying.

Boey asked Zimmerman about the girlfriend of Trayvon Martin who said she was on the phone with him when he said he was being followed, and that Zimmerman attacked Martin.

“I don’t believe that happened. I don’t believe she was on the phone with him and I find it very strange with the publicity involved that all of a sudden after three weeks someone would remember that they were on the phone. I believe the FBI and others investigating this will find that did not happen,” Zimmerman said.

abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T3XQJ9Vj6So

However, the girlfriend has produced phone logs that ABC News has also seen that show her communication with Trayvon Martin.

Trayvon’s phone logs, also obtained exclusively by ABC News, show the conversation occurred five minutes before police first arrived on the scene

myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/trayvon-martin-threatened-to-kill-zimmerman-zimmermans-father-says-03282012

 

[scipio337]

As quoted in Post # 37:

The New York Daily News reported Friday that Zimmerman was fired in 2005 from his job as a party security guard for being too aggressive, quoting a former co-worker as saying that “usually he was just a cool guy. … But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

And this type of info would be used in any prosecution, just as any of Martin’s past actions (if true) would be used by the defense.

Why are people not accepting that this kind of information is important to the overall picture, rather than “they’re trying to impugn a dead child’s reputation!!!”?