Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[Jerry_Miah]

He was arrested and no charges have yet been filed. Outside of posting bail, which would probably have fairly small, there would be no difference. Whats your problem with that?

Don’t give me this, “were not presuming anything”. I wasn’t born last night. Those of us who are not presuming anything, have pretty figured out that Martin could be just as easily guilty. It all depends on what Martin did up to the point that physical contact was made.

Z’s guilty, that’s your opinion and your entitled to it. Don’t try and blow smoke and tell me there’s not a fire.

So your official position is that you know what I am thinking, is that right?

My opinion is that this was a miscarriage of justice to not charge Zimmerman, and the miscarriage continues every day, over a month now, that he is not charged. It is wrong that he is running around free with no accountability for his actions, without being brought to justice. The investigating officer wanted to charge him with manslaughter for starters, but then higher-ups decided to let him skate.

Care to explain the statement “Martin could be just as easily guilty.” Guilty of what, being dead?

I think you’re getting pretty upset for someone who supposedly thinks Zimmerman should be brought to justice. You do, don’t you?

 

[Jerry_Miah]

Zimmerman’s past involves “resisting officer without violence” and an alcohol education program. So where is the proof that he attacked a police officer. Do you know why he wasn’t charged with violence against a police officer? Earlier you claimed it was because of his father’s former position in another state. That would be opinion. Yet you claim it is fact. Prove it.

I advocate “innocent until proven guilty.” How about you?

And again, have you found those links you claimed to have??? Or are you going to admit that you were lying?

What links are you referring to now, and are you really going to start calling people liars? I said Zimmerman’s father’s powerful connections might have had something to do with the higher-ups dropping all charges against his son. Do you understand that as a speculation?

Here is Zimmerman’s past of assaulting a police officer:

a state agent arrested Zimmerman for battery on a law enforcement officer and obstructing justice. According to the report, agents with Florida’s Alcohol Beverage and Tobacco division were arresting several employees near the University of Central Florida.

Agent Paul Fleishman wrote that Zimmerman walked up to a pal under arrest and began chatting, refusing to leave. Zimmerman cursed him, Fleishman wrote, before pushing him and causing a “short struggle.”

The charge was later dropped when Zimmerman entered a “pre-trial diversion” program, which is not unusual for first-time offenders. The program usually entails paying fines and taking classes for anger management.

Read more here: miamiherald.com/2012/03/23/v-print/2712299/george-zimmerman-self-appointed.html#storylink=cpy

You say advocate “innocent until proven guilty”. Then you support charging Zimmerman and putting him on trial, right?

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

What links are you referring to now, and are you really going to start calling people liars? I said Zimmerman’s father’s powerful connections might have had something to do with the higher-ups dropping all charges against his son. Do you understand that as a speculation?

Here is Zimmerman’s past of assaulting a police officer:

You say advocate “innocent until proven guilty”. Then you support charging Zimmerman and putting him on trial, right?

 

[Bocephus]

Most are simply saying that there is enough evidence to warrant an arrest and trial. What happens after that, is up to the jury.

He was arrested, did you not see the surveillance video? Just because he’s arrested doesn’t mean he has to be held in jail until his trial.

And I suppose you have already convicted TM as well?

Absolutely not, I think I’ve made myself clear on that. Nor am I about to jump on the Martin is innocent because he’s 17 bandwagon.

And do YOU think TM (I know, I’m not a psychologist), a 17 year-old with no police record, walking home with food for his brother, is just going to rush a guy whom he doesn’t know anything about with no provocation?

Maybe he got caught?

And you think the investigation was totally throrough that day and right afterwards to warrant not even considering Zimmerman being charged?

It wasn’t even considered?

And are you so worried about crime in this country that you think it is OK for people(supposedly) “not taking any chances” and shooting somebody for no apparent reason at all?

I’d say getting your head bounced off of concrete is a pretty good time to get the gun out. In my case it would have been a knife, but to each his own.

I don’t presume to know what happened that night totally. But:

1. The investigation was NOT thorough. And questions still remain as to what GZ did that fully warrant a grand jury investigation.

Ok, but you don’t know what happened that night. The only reason you or I know about this case is because someone screamed racism to further their agenda.

1. I simply am fascinated that you seem to give GZ the benefit of the doubt (totally Ok) but not (apparently) Martin.

Fascinating.

No, I give the investigators the benefit of the doubt. Just because they arrest him and let him go does not mean they can not bring charges at a later date. I have not heard anyone say this case was ever closed. Just because they being charges does not mean he is guilty and even then I wouldn’t fall in line with everyone else. A level headed anything is possible approach to this situation is the only way he will get a fair trial which he deserves. And at this point, if I were him, I would demand a fair trial because it is the only we he can clear his name. Until then most people have found him guilty of their own personal charges and would like to see him locked up based on their own opinion regardless of how ignorant it is.

 

[Bocephus]

So your official position is that you know what I am thinking, is that right?

My opinion is that this was a miscarriage of justice to not charge Zimmerman, and the miscarriage continues every day, over a month now, that he is not charged. It is wrong that he is running around free with no accountability for his actions, without being brought to justice. The investigating officer wanted to charge him with manslaughter for starters, but then higher-ups decided to let him skate.

Care to explain the statement “Martin could be just as easily guilty.” Guilty of what, being dead?

I think you’re getting pretty upset for someone who supposedly thinks Zimmerman should be brought to justice. You do, don’t you?

If I was wrong about you I wouldn’t have to explain that sentence.

What is brought to justice?

Just because he is given a trial does not mean he will be found guilty of anything at all. “Brought to justice” could clear his name and bring to light what I mean by that sentence you are having a problem with.

 

[maryjk]

Let’s make it clear that the shooter, Zimmerman, should have been arrested and charged. Whether he’s innocent is for a jury to decide. Let’s also note these very troubling facts:

Zimmerman is the son of a State Supreme Court judge, which is maybe why he wasn’t arrested. **
Zimmerman has a violent past that included attacking a police officer.
Despite this, Zimmerman got a permit to carry a concealed weapon, which normally is difficult to get and impossible if you have a record like his (again, Supreme Court daddy could be a factor).
911 told Zimmerman to stop following the victim, Martin. He apparently did not.
Martin apparently called 911 to report someone following him and told a friend on the phone that he was being followed. Not exactly the action of a predator.
The officer on the scene wanted to charge Zimmerman and was overruled by higher-ups. Again, powerful family influence?
Zimmerman’s attorney has charged he was badly beaten (broken nose, head bashed against ground), but the video of Zimmerman arriving at the police station soon after shows no sign of this. He also arrives at the station much too quickly (40 minutes) after the shooting to have had serous injuries attended to. **

In summary, there is simply no way that Zimmerman should be running free. He should have to go on trial. This is what the rule of law in a democracy is all about. But instead it looks like having a powerful family still allows you to get away with murder in the USA.

Links to above info available on request, I don’t have time right now, but it’s all from mainstream sources.

What links are you referring to now, and are you really going to start calling people liars? I said Zimmerman’s father’s powerful connections might have had something to do with the higher-ups dropping all charges against his son. Do you understand that as a speculation?

Here is Zimmerman’s past of assaulting a police officer:

You say advocate “innocent until proven guilty”. Then you support charging Zimmerman and putting him on trial, right?

I am talking about the links you claimed to have. The ones that have been requested numerous times, but you have ignored the requests.

I do understand speculation. Do you? You do know that your speculation is not fact, right?

I support an investigation. I do not support charging Zimmerman prematurely. If there is enough evidence, not speculation, I support a charge and a trial. I DO NOT support the witch hunt that seems to be happening now. I DO NOT support a trial by the media.

 

[SwizzleStick]

"State Attorney Norm Wolfinger ‘outraged’ by federal review request
Teen shot dead in Sanford by Neighborhood Watch leader

ORLANDO, Fla. - State Attorney Norm Wolfinger released a statement on Monday saying he is “outraged by the outright lies” contained in a letter by the family of Trayvon Martin’s attorney asking for a review of his actions with police in Martin’s death investigation.

The Martin family’s attorney, Ben Crump, said he is asking the U.S. Justice Department to review the investigation for possible interference by Wolfinger’s office Sanford police Detective Chris Serino.

Wolfinger released a statement Monday saying he was “outraged by the outright lies contained in the letter…” and he, “encourages the Justice Department to investigate and document that no such meeting or communication occurred.”…

Blue excerpt from article continued here: clickorlando.com/news/State-Attorney-Norm-Wolfinger-outraged-by-federal-review-request/-/1637132/10042672/-/tovmqt/-/index.html

 

[Jerry_Miah]

If I was wrong about you I wouldn’t have to explain that sentence.

What is brought to justice?

Just because he is given a trial does not mean he will be charged with anything at all. “Brought to justice” could clear his name and bring to light what I mean by that sentence you are having a problem with.

You are wrong. Search all my posts, I never said Zimmerman was guilty. I said there’s a huge preponderance of evidence against him and he should have been charged and should be on trial.

As I look at your posts you seem to believe every charge against the dead kid, proven or not. Zimmerman’s head bounced against concrete? Where’s your proof of that? That’s just what Zimmerman’s friends, family and lawyer say. It’s ridiculous, since he wouldn’t have been calmly walking into a police station a short time later if his head had been bashed on concrete. What’s your motiviation to believe every smear against the dead kid?

Brought to justice = go on trial. Do you support Zimmerman being put on trial or not?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Brought to justice = go on trial. Do you support Zimmerman being put on trial or not?

If the evidence supports it.

 

[Bocephus]

You are wrong. Search all my posts, I never said Zimmerman was guilty. I said there’s a huge preponderance of evidence against him and he should have been charged and should be on trial.

As I look at your posts you seem to believe every charge against the dead kid, proven or not. Zimmerman’s head bounced against concrete? Where’s your proof of that? That’s just what Zimmerman’s friends, family and lawyer say. It’s ridiculous, since he wouldn’t have been calmly walking into a police station a short time later if his head had been bashed on concrete. What’s your motiviation to believe every smear against the dead kid?

Brought to justice = go on trial. Do you support Zimmerman being put on trial or not?

I believe I saw physical evidence, and its not that hard to prove a broken nose.

If I we’re him I’d want to be on trial.

I believe it is quite possible for either of them to be responsible and possibly to an extent both of them. I’m not going to ride on the emotional bandwagon with everyone because of Martins age and innocent appearance he’s been given. Last I checked, 17 year olds are quite capable of making bad choices.

 

[JimG]

And many times these decisions are made while the jury is out of the room. So they don’t even know that a question came up or that the evidence was even presented.

Juries are quite in the dark during a trial. (Or at least it seemed that way to me.)

It’s true that there are rules of evidence. One thing for sure. In a televised trial, the television audience will hear a lot more evidence than the jury does. The jury will be sent out of the room whenever there is a dispute over the acceptability of evidence. But the television audience will hear it all.

 

[maryjk]

It’s true that there are rules of evidence. One thing for sure. In a televised trial, the television audience will hear a lot more evidence than the jury does. The jury will be sent out of the room whenever there is a dispute over the acceptability of evidence. But the television audience will hear it all.

Right. I don’t think people get what I am saying.

I am not saying that the rules of evidence are wrong. I agree with them.

BUT as a juror, on a capital case, it was annoying.

 

[Jerry_Miah]

I am talking about the links you claimed to have. The ones that have been requested numerous times, but you have ignored the requests.

I do understand speculation. Do you? You do know that your speculation is not fact, right?

I support an investigation. I do not support charging Zimmerman prematurely. If there is enough evidence, not speculation, I support a charge and a trial. I DO NOT support the witch hunt that seems to be happening now. I DO NOT support a trial by the media.

You don’t seem to understand the word “maybe”. I wrote “Zimmerman is the son of a State Supreme Court judge, which is maybe why he wasn’t arrested.” This is a statement of fact followed by speculation (the “maybe”). Do you understand that? Here is a news report about Zimmerman’s judge father from a channel I think you watch, FOX TV: youtube.com/watch?v=yyDFIbCZOjs&feature=youtu.be

Since you like searching all my posts you can find the one where I said that initial reports erroneously said Trayvon called 911 but then were retracted. Understand?

After police came to the shooting scene, Zimmerman was brought to the police station less than 40 minutes later. That’s a fact based on the time stamp on the video. (There is therefore no way he was seriously injured as his lawyer has said.)

You say " I do not support charging Zimmerman prematurely." Do you think over one month is too soon? Do you understand that the homicide detective wanted to charge Zimmerman right away, but the higher-ups did nothing about it?

 

[Bocephus]

You don’t seem to understand the word “maybe”. I wrote “Zimmerman is the son of a State Supreme Court judge, which is maybe why he wasn’t arrested.” This is a statement of fact followed by speculation (the “maybe”). Do you understand that? Here is a news report about Zimmerman’s judge father from a channel I think you watch, FOX TV: youtube.com/watch?v=yyDFIbCZOjs&feature=youtu.be

Since you like searching all my posts you can find the one where I said that initial reports erroneously said Trayvon called 911 but then were retracted. Understand?

After police came to the shooting scene, Zimmerman was brought to the police station less than 40 minutes later. That’s a fact based on the time stamp on the video. (There is therefore no way he was seriously injured as his lawyer has said.)

You say " I do not support charging Zimmerman prematurely." Do you think over one month is too soon? Do you understand that the homicide detective wanted to charge Zimmerman right away, but the higher-ups did nothing about it?

Didn’t someone refute the whole SC judge argument by saying he was a magistrate who is probably not even known in the state of Florida?

 

[Jerry_Miah]

I believe I saw physical evidence, and its not that hard to prove a broken nose.

You “believe” you “saw” a broken nose? Where?

How did this broken nose get treated and fixed so well and so miraculously fast that less than 40 minutes after police arrive on the scene, Zimmerman’s arriving in a police station with no sign of it?

 

[Jerry_Miah]

Didn’t someone refute the whole SC judge argument by saying he was a magistrate who is probably not even known in the state of Florida?

I am simply answering her request for the links. Obviously the extent of his influence within the Florida justice system is unknown at this time.

 

[EmperorNapoleon]

Obviously the extent of his influence within the Florida justice system is unknown at this time.

I think its safe to say that a retired justice of the peace from Virginia doesn’t have any pull in the Florida justice system. Becoming a justice of the peace in Virginia doesn’t even require a bachelors degree so I doubt he would have been calling in favors to non-existent law school chums. He wasn’t even a real judge.

 

[Bocephus]

You “believe” you “saw” a broken nose? Where?

How did this broken nose get treated and fixed so well and so miraculously fast that less than 40 minutes after police arrive on the scene, Zimmerman’s arriving in a police station with no sign of it?

What I saw were the wounds to tHe back of the head from the unedited footage.

I didn’t realize a broken nose was so severe of an injury…

 

[Jerry_Miah]

What I saw were the wounds to tHe back of the head from the unedited footage.

I didn’t realize a broken nose was so severe of an injury…

You saw a broken nose in the back of his head?

 

[Bocephus]

You saw a broken nose in the back of his head?

Are you being obtuse?