Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

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Please forgive me if this is a duplication. These threads move pretty quickly and I may have missed it.

"Neighbor defends George Zimmerman

TAMPA - One of George Zimmerman’s neighbors is speaking out, saying looks can be deceiving.

Despite booking video from the Sanford Police Department that many say shows George Zimmerman largely unscathed from his encounter with Trayvon Martin, the neighbor said he saw Zimmerman with obvious injuries."…

Blue excerpted from: myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012
 
SwizzleStick said:
Please forgive me if this is a duplication. These threads move pretty quickly and I may have missed it.

"Neighbor defends George Zimmerman

TAMPA - One of George Zimmerman’s neighbors is speaking out, saying looks can be deceiving.

Despite booking video from the Sanford Police Department that many say shows George Zimmerman largely unscathed from his encounter with Trayvon Martin, the neighbor said he saw Zimmerman with obvious injuries."…

Blue excerpted from: myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/neighbor-defends-george-zimmerman-03302012
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Seriously, do the "He’s got friends who are _____ " friends honestly not get it? Anybody, of any race, can racially profile.

As for the bandages, they mean nothing unless we know what was under them.
 
I wonder if or how the possibility of financial liability on the part of the homeowners’ association, will figure into what we hear from residents?
 
seekerz said:
I do get what you meant. I think most people on a jury would be willing and able to put themselves in the place of the attacked person. However that person should have to prove they were in reasonable fear of imminent death. Juries can judge reasonableness too, as well as combativeness versus a person’s willingness/ability to escape danger.

What makes things dangerous is when a law removes that prerogative from a jury and allows the person to be the sole judge of what was reasonable/necessary.
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but where does the law allow a the person to be the sole judge?
 
I wish all the noise would quiet down so that the investigators could do their jobs.

Both sides have made mistakes regarding the progress of this tragic situation. I want all these “leaks” to STOP! It would be great if the authorities could “batten down the hatches,” but such isn’t possible in our system.
 
seekerz said:
Why would they be wrong, on either side, if they are exercising their freedom of speech without inciting violence or breaking any law?

Since when is agitation in and of itself wrong? People agitate everyday about things they are passionate about.

From the history we have been given of the Sanford PD, it looks like publicity may be the only way to get all the facts before us so that we can judge charitably.

Like I said, if it were my son, I’d take all the publicity I could get. That’s the least you can do when your child is dead and authorities won’t tell you why his shooter was not charged.
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yes, people have the right to peacefully protest, but putting out flyers offering money saying you want someone dead or alive is horrible. editing tapes to change the reality of what was said in order to incite more racial hatred is horrible. sending out personal addresses knowing full well the amount of anger over this issue could put a life or lives in danger is again horrible. i know you don’t condone such behavior, but i think examples like that are what most people are referring to.
 
seekerz said:
If you are right then the law is just ridiculous. You follow someone whom you know to be potentially dangerous (he is armed and you know it) and if you startle him and he turns on you, you have a right to claim self defense? If that is truly the law, then we can go back to ‘an eye for an eye’ and let it be every man for himself…
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you might not think it so ridiculous if an armed person kidnapped your baby right in front of your eyes. you’d have every right to arm yourself and go after him/her.

btw, i just want to take this moment and say i do enjoy battling out these ideas with you. i hope you don’t think i’m being too obnoxious. it’s actually helping me get my mind off some woes at the moment, so thanks for being so engaging.
 
jen_fla said:
but where does the law allow a the person to be the sole judge?
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When it removes the duty to retreat when outside the home. Seems to me like that makes it harder for police to find probably cause and for the case to go before a jury.
 
jen_fla said:
you might not think it so ridiculous if an armed person kidnapped your baby right in front of your eyes. you’d have every right to arm yourself and go after him/her.

btw, i just want to take this moment and say i do enjoy battling out these ideas with you. i hope you don’t think i’m being too obnoxious. it’s actually helping me get my mind off some woes at the moment, so thanks for being so engaging.
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No worries. I find this forum a great stress buster myself.
 
seekerz said:
Seriously, do the "He’s got friends who are _____ " friends honestly not get it? Anybody, of any race, can racially profile.

As for the bandages, they mean nothing unless we know what was under them.
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even with low resolution you can clearly see the back of his head is injured:

breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/31/MSNBC-Admits-Zimmerman-Head-Injury

i think it’s a bit crazy for people to think he had no injuries. the question isn’t if he had any, but how severe were they.
 
seekerz said:
No worries. I find this forum a great stress buster myself.
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glad to hear it. i have a tendency to forget i’m debating/discussing/arguing with real people some times. guess i played too many video games in my day! 😛
 
jen_fla said:
yes, people have the right to peacefully protest, but putting out flyers offering money saying you want someone dead or alive is horrible. editing tapes to change the reality of what was said in order to incite more racial hatred is horrible. sending out personal addresses knowing full well the amount of anger over this issue could put a life or lives in danger is again horrible. i know you don’t condone such behavior, but i think examples like that are what most people are referring to.
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I think we can all agree that such behavior is extreme, but to my knowledge, neither Sharpton nor Jackson are involved in that sort of agitation. Yet somehow their names keep popping up for criticism, when it is partly due to their efforts that further action has been taken on this matter. It seems to really offend some people when any incident is attributed (rightly or wrongly) to matters of race.
 
ringil said:
I wish all the noise would quiet down so that the investigators could do their jobs.

Both sides have made mistakes regarding the progress of this tragic situation. I want all these “leaks” to STOP! It would be great if the authorities could “batten down the hatches,” but such isn’t possible in our system.
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Too late. The way this thing has progressed, I suspect some serious infighting within the system itself over this case; which would explain the leaks.
 
jen_fla said:
yes, people have the right to peacefully protest, but putting out flyers offering money saying you want someone dead or alive is horrible. editing tapes to change the reality of what was said in order to incite more racial hatred is horrible. sending out personal addresses knowing full well the amount of anger over this issue could put a life or lives in danger is again horrible. i know you don’t condone such behavior, but i think examples like that are what most people are referring to.
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I think you are forgetting where the source of the real outrage is – that is in a man with a violent past shooting a 17-year-old in what are very suspicious circumstances and then not even being charged with a crime. And then it comes out he has a powerful father and that the investigating officer who wanted to charge the shooter with manslaughter got overruled by higher-ups. Then the shooter’s attorney says all sorts of things to cast blame on the dead boy – but video evidence quickly contradicts it.

Try to imagine that it was your brother or someone in your family who was killed – you would be crying out for justice too.
 
Jerry_Miah said:
I think you are forgetting where the source of the real outrage is – that is in a man with a violent past shooting a 17-year-old in what are very suspicious circumstances and then not even being charged with a crime. And then it comes out he has a powerful father and that the investigating officer who wanted to charge the shooter with manslaughter got overruled by higher-ups. Then the shooter’s attorney says all sorts of things to cast blame on the dead boy – but video evidence quickly contradicts it.

Try to imagine that it was your brother or someone in your family who was killed – you would be crying out for justice too.
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Cooler heads must prevail. . . . .

I am glad that this investigation is finally underway but we can’t encourage or condone vigilantiism.

I understand that Spike Lee and the elderly couple whose address he tweeted came to a mutually agreeable solution. Their cool heads prevailed. Maybe we should all take a cue from them.
 
seekerz said:
I wouldn’t be surprised if there was something, but trauma severe enough to put you in fear for your life is severe enough to be imaged, IMO.
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paramedics aren’t doctors and they certainly aren’t perfect.

if it turns out that was george screaming then it sure did sound like his life was in imminent danger.

if it turns out that was trayvon, i hope george is put away for the rest of his life with no chance of parole.
 
Jerry_Miah said:
I think you are forgetting where the source of the real outrage is – that is in a man with a violent past shooting a 17-year-old in what are very suspicious circumstances and then not even being charged with a crime. And then it comes out he has a powerful father and that the investigating officer who wanted to charge the shooter with manslaughter got overruled by higher-ups. Then the shooter’s attorney says all sorts of things to cast blame on the dead boy – but video evidence quickly contradicts it.

Try to imagine that it was your brother or someone in your family who was killed – you would be crying out for justice too.
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i totally understand why people are upset, but there is a huge difference between crying out for justice and the examples i gave above. those are not acceptable and two wrongs don’t make a right. besides, scams like nbc editing the tape are only going to increase the chance that justice isn’t served when this goes to trial. everyone needs to stick to facts and quit twisting things to support their own assumptions.
 
Jerry_Miah said:
I think you are forgetting where the source of the real outrage is – that is in a man with a violent past shooting a 17-year-old in what are very suspicious circumstances and then not even being charged with a crime. And then it comes out he has a powerful father and that the investigating officer who wanted to charge the shooter with manslaughter got overruled by higher-ups. Then the shooter’s attorney says all sorts of things to cast blame on the dead boy – but video evidence quickly contradicts it.

Try to imagine that it was your brother or someone in your family who was killed – you would be crying out for justice too.
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I think there is one misapprehension: GZ’s father seems to have been a magistrate, sometimes called a judge magistrate–rather than an actual judge. In VA, magistrates were only recently required to have education beyond high school, and they just deal with people who have been charged with a crime. I doubt that he was very powerful in VA, and he was probably unknown in the FL system.
 
If it matters:

Treyvon’s parents were on Geraldo a few minutes ago and they declare they had nothing personally to do with the Black Panthers posting the “reward” for Zimmerman. And that they do not condone it. In fact, they declared this is not really about race but “justice.”
Their lawyer said they want an arrest of Zimmerman-------ONLY by the authorities. Anything ele would encoutrage, they say, the very vigilantism that caused Treyvon’s death.

Also, Geraldo apologized for his “hoodie” comments. The parents accepted the apology.

Just saying…

Yep.
 
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