Trayvon Martin: 'Shoot first' law under scrutiny

[SamH]

The child that only spent 15 summers here somehow made it to age 17. That is quite a feat.

What else written here is based on fantasy?

Are they now claiming Martin was a space alien that arrived at age 2?

 

[ComputerGeek25]

“Pursuing someone” is not against the law.

Also, you need to charge someone with a crime before dragging them into court. You know, that whole presumption of innocense thingy.

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread.

If Zimmerman committed a crime, compile the evidence and bring him to court.

If the police botched the investigation, compile the evidence and file charges.

I think too much hand waving has gone on on both sides. We’ve already convicted these individuals in the court of public opinion.

And the media and other individuals are trying to start a race war.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

This tragedy needs to be fully investigated in a court of law…

It is not the function of courts to investigate crimes. That is the function of the police.

The function of the court is to determine guilt according to the law upon a reasonable suspicion that a crime was committed. It is the function of the DA to determine whether or not the evidence is reasonably likely to lead to a conviction and to bring that accusation to court, if warranted by the evidence. In other words, first the DA builds a case and then it is tested in court.

What the Zimmerman/Martin case has demonstrated above all else is the widespread disinterest in how our legal system functions.

 

[seekerz]

I notice your ABCisque editing when you cut the part where he complied.

Source that Zimmerman did not stop following Martin?

That was already laid to rest in this thread on Sunday, with the use of an area map I believe. It must be some pages back.

I see you are disputing the idea of inadequate investigation, well if a proper police investigation had been done from the get-go and released to the public, we would not be here settling and rehashing the chain of events. So in some ways, you are disproving your own point.

 

[seekerz]

Thank you for bringing some sanity to this thread.

If Zimmerman committed a crime, compile the evidence and bring him to court.

If the police botched the investigation, compile the evidence and file charges.

I think too much hand waving has gone on on both sides. We’ve already convicted these individuals in the court of public opinion.

And the media and other individuals are trying to start a race war.

The media simply took advantage of a case in which the necessary answers for a child’s death were not released. Solution: prevent the recurrence of such events by performing timely investigations and releasing the findings appropriately.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The media simply took advantage of a case in which the necessary answers for a child’s death were not released. Solution: prevent the recurrence of such events by performing timely investigations and releasing the findings appropriately.

That would certainly aid pubic trial by lynch mob.

Alternatively, update your opinions as new information becomes available.

 

[seekerz]

Are they now claiming Martin was a space alien that arrived at age 2?

So 17 summers (he had just turned 17 if my info serves me right), does that make a real difference to his innocence in this matter?

 

[Bocephus]

So 16 summers (he had just turned 17 if my info serves me right), does that make a real difference to his innocence in this matter?

Nope, nor to his possible guilt. Either way, he’s still capable of doing wrong and and physically capable of killing another man.

 

[Jerry_Miah]

“Perfectly capable of killing George with his hands and feet.” ?

This is a child who spent only fifteen summers on this earth, who was carrying home a cold drink and candy, who is now dead at the hands of a gunman. It is perfectly reasonable for us to pause and reflect upon such a tragedy. It is reasonable to listen to the recording that has been made public. Zimmerman was told not to pursue, and he ignored that order. It is reasonable to follow the trial, and express opinions.

A fair match? A fifteen year old armed with iced tea and candy, against a larger adult male with a loaded gun *pursuing him, (after being instructed by the authorities not to.) * That is just part of the many things the court will consider if this goes to trial. Who initiated the altercation will play a part. Which person pursued the other with a loaded gun? That will play a part. These are all perfectly reasonable questions.

Keep in mind that the sound recording has been heard all over the world. This is not personal opinion, but fact:

Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that."

Zimmerman was told not to pursue. Had he remained where he was, and not forced the altercation, Trayvon would be alive.

No one here is personally convicting anyone. That is for the courts. We are on an open forum where we can discuss our opinions after looking at the facts.
*
One very tragic and disturbing fact is this: The recording of the instructions to Zimmerman to not follow Trayvon is a fact heard 'round the world.*

This tragedy needs to be fully investigated in a court of law, and by the same rule of law, it is also our right to form opinions and to express them. We would not want to be under any regime that disallows public expression of opinion. We all pray for justice, and I’m sure everyone here can understand Trayvon’s family’s grief, and their right in demanding justice be done for their child.

Thank you for writing this. But your plea for compassion, understanding and justice will only be met with nitpicking and hateful reaction. It’s the internet. Disappointing that it even happens on a Catholic site, but oh well.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Fixed it for you.

Ok, so you ARE indeed saying that TM was a punk on the lam who decided for no apparent reason to attack a neighborhood captain?

Just like some are saying Zimmerman was a racist who targeted Trayvon for no apparent reason.

Because most black youths have “tendencies” and most Hispanic neighborhood watch captains go ballistic when faced with huge increases in crime in their neighborhood…

I am simply specvulating of my own free will like everybkdy else here. SO ARE YOU.
The right thing to do would be to wait until ALL sides are looked in this affair----instead of assuming that one side should be given the benefit of the doubt over another.

BTW--------

“Thank you” for changing my meaning on that sentence. Except for some on TM’s family’s side, most people have not implied that Rayvon was a Saint and that it was a case of a malevolent racist targeting an innocent black teen.

Even TM’s parents have not said that. They look at it as an issue of vigilantism. They have spoken out and condemned what the Black Panthers did.

So you are saying that Zimmerman should automatically be given total benefit of the doubt and more sympathy over Trayvon-----particularly comsidering we do not know all of the facts?

Just like some people are making assumptions about GZ, many are making simlar assumptions abot TM. And they’re both WRONG.

People like us can’t help it but the authorities can and SHOULD work for a higher standard.

TM’s parents are saying-----not so fast and you made a jugement without looking at all of the facts.

Isn’t it hypocritical of you to blast people for doing the same thing you are doing? Looking for ANY excuse to bolster YOUR side?

If I am, at least I humbly admit it. Maybe you should learn to do the same.

You are assuming that everybody is making TM out to be a Saint and Zimmerman the Devil. It is WAAAAAAAAY more complex and subtle than that.

Look at ALL the facts and questions, not make up your mind based on preconceived notions. If I am “assuming,” so are you.

 

[SamH]

Ok, so you ARE indeed saying that TM was a punk on the lam who decided for no apparent reason to attack a neighborhood captain?

(

No, where did I say anything like that?

 

[SamH]

Thank you for writing this. But your plea for compassion, understanding and justice will only be met with nitpicking and hateful reaction. It’s the internet. Disappointing that it even happens on a Catholic site, but oh well.

So accuracy isn’t important when you have an ax to grind?

 

[SamH]

The media simply took advantage of a case in which the necessary answers for a child’s death were not released. Solution: prevent the recurrence of such events by performing timely investigations and releasing the findings appropriately.

Actually the media made up things when they were trying to fill valuable airtime so they could charge for commercials.

 

[SamH]

So 17 summers (he had just turned 17 if my info serves me right), does that make a real difference to his innocence in this matter?

Your information has served you many times.

 

[Dawnia]

“Perfectly capable of killing George with his hands and feet.” ?

This is a child who spent only fifteen summers on this earth, who was carrying home a cold drink and candy, who is now dead at the hands of a gunman. It is perfectly reasonable for us to pause and reflect upon such a tragedy. It is reasonable to listen to the recording that has been made public. Zimmerman was told not to pursue, and he ignored that order. It is reasonable to follow the trial, and express opinions.
I really feel sorry for his mother begin pregnant for 2 years and 9 months.I thought elephants were the only animals that had a gestation period that long.

A fair match? A fifteen year old armed with iced tea and candy, against a larger adult male with a loaded gun *pursuing him, (after being instructed by the authorities not to.) * That is just part of the many things the court will consider if this goes to trial. Who initiated the altercation will play a part. Which person pursued the other with a loaded gun? That will play a part. These are all perfectly reasonable questions.
Yet a 14 year old killed a 24 year old simply by choking him. Are you saying that a 17 year old couldn’t do the same?

Keep in mind that the sound recording has been heard all over the world. This is not personal opinion, but fact:

Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that."

You have a different interpretation of fact than I do apparently, because that’s not what the dispatcher said.

 

[SamH]

Kathryn Ann;9140366:

Zimmerman was asked by the authorities:

“Are you following him?”
Answer “Yes”
Authorities" We need you to not do that

."

You have a different interpretation of fact than I do apparently, because that’s not what the dispatcher said.

More of the ABCisque editing.

 

[seekerz]

I watched the family attorney being interviewed this morning. When asked who their source was for this claim they refused to name it - at one time they implied it was the lead detective - now its “someone else”. If the State Attorney were being untruthful why would he ask for an investigation into this matter? All it would reveal (hopefully) is the truth - not something a liar would want revealed.

No one else has stepped up to back the family attorney’s claim that local police wanted to press charges that night - why is that? It’s not a big issue but its one of the few the claims that have been raised - not it appears to be unravelling like many of the story lines.

Things the media announced that are now proven not true:

1. George Zimmerman was questioned and released at the scene
2. George Zimmerman suffered no injuries
3. George Zimmerman was “patroling”
4. Police wanted to charge Zimmerman that night
5. Martin was chased down and confronted
6. Martin was beaten then shot
7. Zimmerman was a racist white man

I’m not sure who you’re quoting those claims from because I know of no single entity who has made all of these 7 claims. So there is a lot of generalizing happening on both side of the story; most of which would not have arisen if the matter had been properly handled initially.

As to whose telling the truth about what, let’s wait and see…

 

[seekerz]

Dawnia;9140733:

More of the ABCisque editing.

Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he’s heading towards? Zimmerman: The back entrance…****ing [unintelligible] Dispatcher: Are you following him? Zimmerman: Yeah Dispatcher: Ok, we don’t need you to do that.

Zimmerman: Ok Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name? Zimmerman: George…He ran. Dispatcher: Alright George what’s your last name? Zimmerman: Zimmerman Dispatcher: And George what’s the phone number you’re calling from?

Source

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

No, where did I say anything like that?

Yet you are shooting down or explaining away every speculation that GZ’s actions may have been anything less than totally honest and honorable.

Almost as if you have already made up your mind that GZ’s was justified in what he did and TM’s was wrong.

And people are doing the opposite in regards to TM, as well, to be honest.

Just seems you are saying do not rush to judgement" when you basically seem to be implying the same thing for the other side.
Correct me if I am wrong.

Trayvon had every right to be where he was, remember that. Why was Zimmerman following him?

And just what was “suspicious” about Trayvon that exacted GZ’s curiosity? That he was out late at night?

Nobody has determined that

 

[seekerz]

Actually the media made up things when they were trying to fill valuable airtime so they could charge for commercials.

Actually, the case became a sensation on Twitter because it wasn’t properly handled and then it became a big issue on the networks. Prior to release of the 911 calls, it was just another story in the everyday cycle. I know because new is almost all I watch on TV.