Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil

[Neil_Anthony]

There’s no shortage of commentary on the results of man’s first sin, disobeying God by eating the fruit from the tree. But I haven’t seen much about the symbolism of the name of the tree. We see in Genesis that Adam and Eve became able to see good from evil in that they realized they were naked… but…

Does this mean that before they ate that fruit, they had absolutely no notion of right and wrong? And if they didn’t, then why was it wrong to disobey God? Without knowledge of right and wrong, how could God blame them for disobeying?

Also, since we were not meant to eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, does this mean that God did not intend for us to be moral beings? That we were intended to live like animals, acting on instinct, mating randomly according to our natural desires, killing when angry, etc?

Sorry if this is a very basic and stupid question, but I’ve been wondering for many years and haven’t found a good answer. I’d really appreciate some help!

God Bless,
Neil

 

[davidv]

There’s no shortage of commentary on the results of man’s first sin, disobeying God by eating the fruit from the tree. But I haven’t seen much about the symbolism of the name of the tree. We see in Genesis that Adam and Eve became able to see good from evil in that they realized they were naked… but…

Does this mean that before they ate that fruit, they had absolutely no notion of right and wrong? And if they didn’t, then why was it wrong to disobey God? Without knowledge of right and wrong, how could God blame them for disobeying?

Also, since we were not meant to eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, does this mean that God did not intend for us to be moral beings? That we were intended to live like animals, acting on instinct, mating randomly according to our natural desires, killing when angry, etc?

Sorry if this is a very basic and stupid question, but I’ve been wondering for many years and haven’t found a good answer. I’d really appreciate some help!

God Bless,
Neil

Have you explored the depth meaning of “to know” in this context? It isn’t just knowledge. It implies an intimate relationship. One example of its use in another context is in marriage - to know ones spouse is to have a deep and personal connection, both physically and emotionally.

Since God gave then instructions, it should have been very clear what was expected and what was “wrong”. So “to know” implys actually participately and being intimate with wrong doing.

 

[rwoehmke]

Think of it as knowledge through experience. Until they ate of the fruit of the tree they had not sinned; had not experienced, had not “known” evil.

 

[Joe_5859]

Fr. Bob Barron describes it thus:

The fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil means that the one thing that Adam and Eve were NOT free to do was to define for themselves what is good and what is evil. As soon as they did that, they put themselves in the place of God. Only God can define what is good and evil.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

One of the things that is supposed to separate us from the animals is that humans have the mental capacity know good from evil. Know in the sense as to judge right from wrong, rather than in the sense of “knowing evil” by doing something wrong and knowing what it leads to.

I have a really strong feeling that the tree must symbolise how mankind came to have this extra mental power that the animals don’t. So far the answers seem to interpret it as meaning something else though…

 

[inthecloud]

Jewish commentary can be useful. They said the knowledge of good an evil was about life, about giving and destroying life. That when people got that knowledge death (or more like the idea of death) entered into the World.

Note that the next story on Genesis was the Chaim and Abel story.

 

[Joe_5859]

One of the things that is supposed to separate us from the animals is that humans have the mental capacity know good from evil. Know in the sense as to judge right from wrong, rather than in the sense of “knowing evil” by doing something wrong and knowing what it leads to.

I have a really strong feeling that the tree must symbolise how mankind came to have this extra mental power that the animals don’t. So far the answers seem to interpret it as meaning something else though…

We have this ability the animals don’t because God made us that way in his image and likeness, not because of the Fall or because of anything we did. If preternatural Adam and Eve did not have the capacity to judge right from wrong before the Fall, they would not have had much of a fighting chance in avoiding sin.

There is a difference between having the capacity to judge what is objectively right from wrong according to God’s standards and in taking that role upon one’s self to decide what is right and wrong.

It’s like the difference between someone who strives to live in conformity with the natural law and a relativist who thinks that he can define it for himself.

At least, that’s my take on it.

 

[guanophore]

There’s no shortage of commentary on the results of man’s first sin, disobeying God by eating the fruit from the tree. But I haven’t seen much about the symbolism of the name of the tree. We see in Genesis that Adam and Eve became able to see good from evil in that they realized they were naked… but…

Does this mean that before they ate that fruit, they had absolutely no notion of right and wrong? And if they didn’t, then why was it wrong to disobey God? Without knowledge of right and wrong, how could God blame them for disobeying?

Also, since we were not meant to eat of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil, does this mean that God did not intend for us to be moral beings? That we were intended to live like animals, acting on instinct, mating randomly according to our natural desires, killing when angry, etc?

Sorry if this is a very basic and stupid question, but I’ve been wondering for many years and haven’t found a good answer. I’d really appreciate some help!

I heard a good sermon on this to the effect that God wanted mankind to look to Him for revelation, and not to our own devices, or to acquire such knowledge outside of our relationship with HIm.

 

[robert_ambrose]

there was a theory that it was the apple in the tree that caused mankind to sin , when it was actually the pair on the ground.

 

[Orionthehunter]

One of the things that is supposed to separate us from the animals is that humans have the mental capacity know good from evil. Know in the sense as to judge right from wrong, rather than in the sense of “knowing evil” by doing something wrong and knowing what it leads to.

I have a really strong feeling that the tree must symbolise how mankind came to have this extra mental power that the animals don’t. So far the answers seem to interpret it as meaning something else though…

We have this ability the animals don’t because God made us that way in his image and likeness, not because of the Fall or because of anything we did. If preternatural Adam and Eve did not have the capacity to judge right from wrong before the Fall, they would not have had much of a fighting chance in avoiding sin.

There is a difference between having the capacity to judge what is objectively right from wrong according to God’s standards and in taking that role upon one’s self to decide what is right and wrong.

It’s like the difference between someone who strives to live in conformity with the natural law and a relativist who thinks that he can define it for himself.

At least, that’s my take on it.

Joe’s answer is very good but if you read Scripture before the fall, you know that they already have a soul because God breathed into them. He placed His very life into them while w/ the animals He just created them. Difference between an artist painting a picture and impregnating his wife.

I heard a good sermon on this to the effect that God wanted mankind to look to Him for revelation, and not to our own devices, or to acquire such knowledge outside of our relationship with HIm.

quanophore, great answer. If I may, I’d like to add just a bit. I once was told that the simplest theology is in Genesis. God made all, He breathed His very nature into us, and we are to always remember that. If we do, we will always be in communion with Him. But, if we believe otherwise, we will break our communion with Him and it will change our life because it separates ourselves from Him. This is what sin is. And, the temptation to sin comes from Satan. We are to see sin for what it is. A temptation from one who hates us trying to turn us away from the One who Loves us. And we are to use all of our weapons against Satan: Our mind, our will, and conscience. Satan will appeal to whichever of these is weakest. In the case of the temptation in the Garden, Satan had to appeal to all three because until sin entered into the world, we were “full of grace”, as Mary is. The difference is that Mary fought off the temptation which is why Catholics venerate her as the greatest creature.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

I would certainly agree that the tree is “knowledge” of good and evil goes beyond intellectual understanding, but rather to participatory knowledge.

The thing is that God is all Good, so saying God “knows” evil is a very mysterious idea – yet the Genesis text says that "man has become ** one of us knowing good and evil.

The idea of deity includes angels, and there is the possibility that Genesis is speaking through angels to Adam and Eve – so that the fall of the angels itself may be implied in the passage. God himself knows only Good in the truest sense; but the devil Gen 3:5 could only claim this first hand knowledge of evil by having it himself.

Also, Genesis 3:22 reinforces that the God’s spoken of in Genesis “knew” evil.**

 

[rocketrob]

From Bernard Orchard’s “A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture” comes the explanation that “…the name could be interpreted to mean omniscience according to the Hebrew idiom by which totality is expressed by means of the conjunction of opposites.”

rocketrob

 

[j1s2a3]

Eve did not “know a apple” but what happen there was seduction of order were not absolute it states Eve was beguiled in new testament.One thing certain was that some form of rape occured.symbolic rape of Fathers command?It was no doubt disordered pleasure promised by satan by twisting Fathers command.It IS the fall were always near…near occasions of sin and satan knows our weak point.

 

[gez722]

Pope John Paul II relects on this in his encyclical, “Dominum et Vivificantum”

36. According to the witness concerning the beginning which we find in the Scriptures and in Tradition, after the first (and also more complete) description in the Book of Genesis, sin in its original form is understood as “disobedience,” and this means simply and directly transgression of a prohibition laid down by God. But in the light of the whole context it is also obvious that the ultimate roots of this disobedience are to be sought in the whole real situation of man. Having been called into existence, the human being-man and woman-is a creature. The “image of God,” consisting in rationality and freedom, expresses the greatness and dignity of the human subject, who is a person. But this personal subject is also always a creature: in his existence and essence he depends on the Creator. According to the Book of Genesis, “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was to express and constantly remind man of the “limit” impassable for a created being. God’s prohibition is to be understood in this sense: the Creator forbids man and woman to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The words of the enticement, that is to say the temptation, as formulated in the sacred text, are an inducement to transgress this prohibition-that is to say, to go beyond that “limit”: “When you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God “like gods”], knowing good and evil.”

“Disobedience” means precisely going beyond that limit, which remains impassable to the will and the freedom of man as a created being. For God the Creator is the one definitive source of the moral order in the world created by him. Man cannot decide by himself what is good and what is evil-cannot "know good and evil, like God." In the created world God indeed remains the first and sovereign source for deciding about good and evil, through the intimate truth of being, which is the reflection of the Word, the eternal Son, consubstantial with the Father. To man, created to the image of God, the Holy Spirit gives the gift of conscience, so that in this conscience the image may faithfully reflect its model, which is both Wisdom and eternal Law, the source of the moral order in man and in the world. “Disobedience,” as the original dimension of sin, means the rejection of this source, through man’s claim to become an independent and exclusive source for deciding about good and evil The Spirit who “searches the depths of God,” and who at the same time is for man the light of conscience and the source of the moral order, knows in all its fullness this dimension of the sin inscribed in the mystery of man’s beginning. And the Spirit does not cease “convincing the world of it” in connection with the Cross of Christ on Golgotha.

The encyclical can be found online at: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_18051986_dominum-et-vivificantem_en.html

God Bless,
Gary

 

[Joe_5859]

Pope John Paul II relects on this in his encyclical, “Dominum et Vivificantum”

36. According to the witness concerning the beginning which we find in the Scriptures and in Tradition, after the first (and also more complete) description in the Book of Genesis, sin in its original form is understood as “disobedience,” and this means simply and directly transgression of a prohibition laid down by God. But in the light of the whole context it is also obvious that the ultimate roots of this disobedience are to be sought in the whole real situation of man. Having been called into existence, the human being-man and woman-is a creature. The “image of God,” consisting in rationality and freedom, expresses the greatness and dignity of the human subject, who is a person. But this personal subject is also always a creature: in his existence and essence he depends on the Creator. According to the Book of Genesis, “the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” was to express and constantly remind man of the “limit” impassable for a created being. God’s prohibition is to be understood in this sense: the Creator forbids man and woman to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The words of the enticement, that is to say the temptation, as formulated in the sacred text, are an inducement to transgress this prohibition-that is to say, to go beyond that “limit”: “When you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God “like gods”], knowing good and evil.”

“Disobedience” means precisely going beyond that limit, which remains impassable to the will and the freedom of man as a created being. For God the Creator is the one definitive source of the moral order in the world created by him. Man cannot decide by himself what is good and what is evil-cannot "know good and evil, like God." In the created world God indeed remains the first and sovereign source for deciding about good and evil, through the intimate truth of being, which is the reflection of the Word, the eternal Son, consubstantial with the Father. To man, created to the image of God, the Holy Spirit gives the gift of conscience, so that in this conscience the image may faithfully reflect its model, which is both Wisdom and eternal Law, the source of the moral order in man and in the world. “Disobedience,” as the original dimension of sin, means the rejection of this source, through man’s claim to become an independent and exclusive source for deciding about good and evil The Spirit who “searches the depths of God,” and who at the same time is for man the light of conscience and the source of the moral order, knows in all its fullness this dimension of the sin inscribed in the mystery of man’s beginning. And the Spirit does not cease “convincing the world of it” in connection with the Cross of Christ on Golgotha.

The encyclical can be found online at: vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_18051986_dominum-et-vivificantem_en.html

God Bless,
Gary

Thanks for that quote, Gary. That’s great! Here I thought the idea came from Fr. Bob Barron when he was just “borrowing” it from JPII!

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Pope John Paul II relects on this in his encyclical, “Dominum et Vivificantum”
…

Thanks so much! That’s a very authoritative and direct answer!

 

[Cara_Serrano]

About this tree, the serpent says …“your eyes will be opened” when you eat of it (Gen 3:5), yet when Eve ate of the tree, her eyes were not opened. Instead, she offered the fruit to her husband and “then the eyes of both were opened”. Why doesn’t Eve receive the knowledge of good and evil immediately after she sinned?

(I’m new here; if this question should be submitted somewhere else, please direct me.)

 

[Orionthehunter]

About this tree, the serpent says …“your eyes will be opened” when you eat of it (Gen 3:5), yet when Eve ate of the tree, her eyes were not opened. Instead, she offered the fruit to her husband and “then the eyes of both were opened”. Why doesn’t Eve receive the knowledge of good and evil immediately after she sinned?

(I’m new here; if this question should be submitted somewhere else, please direct me.)

Satan is a liar.

 

[Huiou_Theou]

About this tree, the serpent says …“your eyes will be opened” when you eat of it (Gen 3:5), yet when Eve ate of the tree, her eyes were not opened. Instead, she offered the fruit to her husband and “then the eyes of both were opened”. Why doesn’t Eve receive the knowledge of good and evil immediately after she sinned?

(I’m new here; if this question should be submitted somewhere else, please direct me.)

Welcome to the forums, Cara!

Your question is astute.

There are perhaps many answers, but I can give at best a partial answer:
The man and woman are one flesh in a marriage, the woman is not the whole.

The “fall” is according to the flesh, as the fruit of the tree (the end product) is represented as physical in the story – death in the Body does not occur until the act is completed in Adam who is the fountain of the body.

That isn’t really satisfying as an answer, but I would also notice that God gave the law to Adam before Eve was created – and also, in quoting the Law – Eve does not faithfully respond with the correct answer. So the sin was not complete in her as one who was deceived, but in the man it was because Adam was not deceived.

Also, there is some kind of unity between Eve and the tree implied by her name, the mother of all the living – and the tree of life. Although the relationship is somewhat obscure.

I know I haven’t answered very thoroughly here, but perhaps someone else has more wisdom than I on this particular issue.

 

[gez722]

Thanks so much! That’s a very authoritative and direct answer!

Neil,
You’re quite welcome…I’m glad I remembered JPII writing about this topic

God Bless,
Gary