Tree of Knowledge

[fhansen]

This has nothing to do with the “evolution of the spiritual soul” or whatever other term you may wish to use, and everything to do with a knowledge which was simply previously unnecessary as it would be inconsistent with their original innocence. The knowledge gained immediately was probably the knowledge-the experience-of the very state of opposition to God’s will that they had just entered. They were now in the domain of the devil and his angelic cohorts, the only other beings who had rebelled against God up to that time.

But as I mentioned before, God can use evil, in this case man’s rebellion, to ultimately bring about an even greater good. Man was/is on a spiritual journey, after all, as the Church teaches, “journeying to perfection”.

 

[simpleas]

It has always seemed to me that the only knowledge they gained by eating of the forbidden fruit was knowing they were naked. Does anyone else get that feeling? Knowing they were naked and feeling ashamed. Although there is nothing shameful in being naked at all. It doesn’t seem to me as though they became knowledgeable about anything else.

The naked thing is known today as spiritual nakedness, but in the past this section was used to shame people about nakedness and sexuality. I know that is what I used to think that passage was all about

God allowed Adam and Eve the ability to know what good and evil is.

There are plenty of people living in the amazon forest who live naked all their lives and are not ashamed of their bodies, in fact they seem to have more respect and morals than us that cover ourselves.

 

[fhansen]

The naked thing is known today as spiritual nakedness, but in the past this section was used to shame people about nakedness and sexuality. I know that is what I used to think that passage was all about

God allowed Adam and Eve the ability to know what good and evil is.

There are plenty of people living in the amazon forest who live naked all their lives and are not ashamed of their bodies, in fact they seem to have more respect and morals than us that cover ourselves.

How would you define “spiritual nakedness”?

 

[grannymh]

Genesis 2: 15-17

What is very interesting is that God is giving flat out knowledge about the difference between good and evil. God does not say – here eat this fruit so that you can have a choice of actions.
Genesis 1: 26-27 already provided the spiritual soul so that Adam has the intelligence to freely choose to go beyond the material earth.(CCC 1730)

Experience of this evil or that evil apparently is not necessary because God is absolutely clear about death right at the beginning. In Genesis 2: 16, God provides sufficient nourishment which is “experiencing” good. Genesis 2:17 provides the knowledge of what will happen when the nourishment of a friendship relationship with the Creator is set aside. One does not have to have the experience of dying in order to know what death means.

Genesis 2: 15-17 is where God Himself gives purpose to Adam’s life. Not only is Adam a gardener, he is to cultivate his friendship with God by that obedience, Genesis 2: 16, which calls him to the good trees in the Garden. In Genesis 3:8, God is with Adam and Eve as they know full well what they did. Still, in Genesis 3: 9, God lovingly calls out to Adam.

 

[Wesrock]

I think it’s right to say that Adam and Eve did not “know” evil in the sense that it was unfamiliar to them. They had never experienced it. They didn’t know what it was like to be cut off from God. In this way they did not know it. However, they were rational beings from the start, and they were intelligent enough to know what was right and what was wrong. When they ate the fruit, they knew they were disobeying. They knew they were doing evil, even if they didn’t know exactly what evil was other than it being something wrong and forbidden. They showed a lack of trust in God and deliberately disobeyed him. To say that Adam and Eve were ignorant of doing wrong is incorrect.

 

[fhansen]

What is very interesting is that God is giving flat out knowledge about the difference between good and evil. God does not say – here eat this fruit so that you can have a choice of actions. Of course not, the choice was clear.
Genesis 1: 26-27 already provided the spiritual soul so that Adam has the intelligence to freely choose to go beyond the material earth.(CCC 1730)

Experience of this evil or that evil apparently is not necessary because God is absolutely clear about death right at the beginning. In Genesis 2: 16, God provides sufficient nourishment which is “experiencing” good. Genesis 2:17 provides the knowledge of what will happen when the nourishment of a friendship relationship with the Creator is set aside. One does not have to have the experience of dying in order to know what death means.

So this same question has has been asked before, ‘Did Adam want to die?’ Did Adam really know the ultimate evil: what it means to die and be separated from God? Did the Prodigal ever learn anything? Was Adam so perfect in wisdom that moral failure should’ve been absolutely precluded? Or was he just very culpable for his sin while nonetheless still redeemable and malleable by the Divine Potter after he sinned Who, as the catechism teaches, had made His universe in a “state of journeying to perfection”?

Genesis 2: 15-17 is where God Himself gives purpose to Adam’s life. Not only is Adam a gardener, he is to cultivate his friendship with God by that obedience, Genesis 2: 16, which calls him to the good trees in the Garden. In Genesis 3:8, God is with Adam and Eve as they know full well what they did. Still, in Genesis 3: 9, God lovingly calls out to Adam.

So, then, please comment on Gen 3:22. The actual experience of evil was never intended to be Adam’s. But the upshot now was that Adam would, eventually, come to truly know good, and, hopefully, to embrace it alone, ultimately turning back to God, Goodness itself and the source of all good, as were all called to do with the help of grace. Man is lost without God; man needs to learn that he’s lost without God.

 

[simpleas]

How would you define “spiritual nakedness”?

A spiritual sense of loss . Being only bodily naked was not the whole point to the story.They know that they are no longer in full union with the Divine now that they can choose between good and evil.
So they felt vulnerable and tried to hide from God… vulnerable both spiritually and physically .

 

[liturgy96]

Ah, the mystery of sin and evil. Perhaps I should look for more materials to further this thread.

 

[grannymh]

So this same question has has been asked before, ‘Did Adam want to die?’ Did Adam really know the ultimate evil: what it means to die and be separated from God? Did the Prodigal ever learn anything? Was Adam so perfect in wisdom that moral failure should’ve been absolutely precluded? Or was he just very culpable for his sin while nonetheless still redeemable and malleable by the Divine Potter after he sinned Who, as the catechism teaches, had made His universe in a “state of journeying to perfection”?

So, then, please comment on Gen 3:22. The actual experience of evil was never intended to be Adam’s. But the upshot now was that Adam would, eventually, come to truly know good, and, hopefully, to embrace it alone, ultimately turning back to God, Goodness itself and the source of all good, as were all called to do with the help of grace. Man is lost without God; man needs to learn that he’s lost without God.

My apology.

I consider Genesis 3: 22 as post-Fall. Genesis 2: 15-17 is pre-Fall. Please refer to post 24.
Because I do not consider post-Fall in the same category of pre-Fall, I have barely touched the meaning of an extremely difficult verse. Therefore, I cannot sufficiently comment on the post-Fall Genesis 3: 22.

As for all the questions – the only answers I have are in connection with Genesis 2: 15-17. Please refer to post 24 for an explanation.

 

[Cinjoy]

Hello to all, a very interesting thread, with many interesting answers. If I might say tho I agree that the best way way to answer this is “they lost their innocents” God s love to all