Trent Horn - Does it matter which Christian denomination you belong to?

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seaton2005 said:
You are allowed to profess your interpretation, which of course is not correct. Examine what you are saying - one is better or more real than the other. That is wrong. In the end, each denomination is striving for the same thing, each, slightly nuanced.
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He has correctly enunciated Catholic teaching. One is “better” and more “real” than the other. Only one has the fullness of truth.
 
seaton2005 said:
The question was: Does it matter … No it does not.
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I am asking you to articulate why you are still Catholic. Because it clearly matters to you. There must be some reason that you choose to stay Catholic, and that reason is why it matters to you, even if that reason was bingo.

Also, if it truly does not matter, than you are clearly placing yourself at odds with Church teaching, as others have shown.
 
Starwarsfan2 said:
  1. Justification is an event.
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benhur said:
In P terms it is an event where for the first time we are reconciled to God,become His child become a new creation, the new man ,born again,born of the spirit ,regenerated. You do not need to be born again and again and again. I am aware of only one scripture that may allude to justification being applied as kind of proof there afterwards.

Blessings
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From Jimmy Akin:
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But if Abraham had saving faith back in Genesis 12, then he was justified back in Genesis 12. Yet Paul clearly tells us that he was also justified in Genesis 15. So justification must be more than just a once-for-all event.
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But just as Abraham received justification before Genesis 15:6, he also received it afterwards, for the book of James tells us, "Was not our ancestor Abraham justified by works when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was brought to completion by the works. Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, 'Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness,' and he was called the friend of God." (James 2:21-23)
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James thus tells us "[w]as not our ancestor Abraham justified ... when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?" In this instance, the faith which he had displayed in the initial promise of descendants was fulfilled in his actions (see also Heb. 11:17-19), thus bringing to fruition the statement of Genesis 15:6 that he believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.
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Abraham therefore received justification—that is, a fuller fruition of justification—when he offered Isaac. The problem for the once-for-all view is that the offering of Isaac is recorded in Gen. 22:1-18—seven chapters after Gen. 15:6. Therefore, just as Abraham was justified before 15:6 when he left Haran for the promised land, so he was also justified again when he offered Isaac after 15:6.
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Therefore, we see that Abraham was justified on at least three different occasions: he was justified in Genesis 12, when he first left Haran and went to the promised land; he was justified in Genesis 15, when he believed the promise concerning his descendants; and he was justified in Genesis 22, when he offered his first promised descendant on the altar.
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**As a result, justification must be seen, not as a once-for-all event, but as a process which continues throughout the believer's life.**
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Duane1966 said:
I am asking you to articulate why you are still Catholic. Because it clearly matters to you. There must be some reason that you choose to stay Catholic, and that reason is why it matters to you, even if that reason was bingo.

Also, if it truly does not matter, than you are clearly placing yourself at odds with Church teaching, as others have shown.
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A lot of people belong to a certain faith because that’s the one they were brought up in, the one their parents and grandparents belonged to, etc. At one time, that’s why most people belonged to a particular faith. That’s why I’m a Protestant, for example, because all of my ancestors for the last 500 years or so have all been Protestants, and many of them on my mother’s side were Lutherans. Maybe seaton’s parents were Catholics. 🤷
 
benhur said:
In P terms it is an event where for the first time we are reconciled to God,become His child become a new creation, the new man ,born again,born of the spirit ,regenerated. You do not need to be born again and again and again. I am aware of only one scripture that may allude to justification being applied as kind of proof there afterwards.

Blessings
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Kinda like getting on a ride at an amusement park, not to demean our LORD. Once you get on you stay on. You can fall off, but you don’t need to buy another ticket. Just brush yourself off and ask for forgiveness and you are back on. However, i don’t believe you can just keep committing the same sin and asking forgiveness like overdosing on heroin hoping for that other drug that will bring you back so you can do it again so you… At some point, you will lose. Wait, this is on denominations. I think it matters on what exactly your faith in CHRIST is. It must be CHRIST centered and maybe have it in your mission statement, if applicable. What is/are your church denomination core beliefs?
 
Thorolfr said:
A lot of people belong to a certain faith because that’s the one they were brought up in, the one their parents and grandparents belonged to, etc. At one time, that’s why most people belonged to a particular faith. That’s why I’m a Protestant, for example, because all of my ancestors for the last 500 years or so have all been Protestants, and many of them on my mother’s side were Lutherans. Maybe seaton’s parents were Catholics. 🤷
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Was it Seaton who said it must focus on CHRIST a few pages ago? Certainly a solid statement.
 
Even_So said:
Kinda like getting on a ride at an amusement park, not to demean our LORD. Once you get on you stay on. You can fall off, but you don’t need to buy another ticket. Just brush yourself off and ask for forgiveness and you are back on. However, i don’t believe you can just keep committing the same sin and asking forgiveness like overdosing on heroin hoping for that other drug that will bring you back so you can do it again so you… At some point, you will lose. Wait, this is on denominations. I think it matters on what exactly your faith in CHRIST is. It must be CHRIST centered and maybe have it in your mission statement, if applicable. What is/are your church denomination core beliefs?
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Are you justified when you fall off?
 
Thorolfr said:
A lot of people belong to a certain faith because that’s the one they were brought up in, the one their parents and grandparents belonged to, etc. At one time, that’s why most people belonged to a particular faith. That’s why I’m a Protestant, for example, because all of my ancestors for the last 500 years or so have all been Protestants, and many of them on my mother’s side were Lutherans. Maybe seaton’s parents were Catholics. 🤷
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Then that is the reason that it matters to him. Thorlfr, if it does not matter, then it should not matter if everyone just stays home and worships the Lord however they see fit. If it does not matter, then no one should ever feel bad if one leaves a church and starts up a new one.
 
Duane1966 said:
From Jimmy Akin:
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Yes that is the scripture or one response that make justification and sanctification the seemingly the same. Deserves good rebuttal. One citing however does not do away with more frequent separation of the two realities.
 
benhur said:
Yes that is the scripture or one response that make justification and sanctification the seemingly the same. Deserves good rebuttal. One citing however does not do away with more frequent separation of the two realities.
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From Dave Armstrong:
This is all in accord with judgment passages. I found 50. All of them without exception discuss works as the criterion for eternal life and salvation, while faith alone is never mentioned. Faith occurs a few times, but always in conjunction with works.
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Justification is described in the Bible as having a past (Rom 5:1-2, 1 Cor 6:11), present (Rom 5:9; Phil 2:12), and future orientation (Rom 2:13; 3:20; Gal 5:5). Protestants generally contend that it is “a one-time event”. We say it is not a one-time event because it is multiple and perpetual. If Scripture refers to it in three tenses, then multiple occurrence is the most plausible interpretation.
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In my view, it matters that a Christian denomination have the following characteristics, among others:

– It needs to preach Christ and Him crucified, which is the heart of the Gospel: (I Cor 2:1-2)
“*And so it was with me, brothers and sisters. When I came to you, I did not come with eloquence or human wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God.[a] 2 For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified”. *

– It needs to facilitate and encourage the believer to make this his priority:
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’***. Matt 22:

– It needs to be a place where believers show love for one another (I John 4:7-8)
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.…

I know of some people who say they have achieved their full potential as Christians through Catholicism, and I believe them. I also know some folks who have done likewise in other Christian faith traditions. I believe that God leads a person who seeks Him with all his heart to where he is supposed to be.

In my view, not all denominations are equal, but there is more than one denomination where a person can come to know, love, and serve our Lord and live a fulfilled life as a Christ-follower.*
 
Tommy999 said:
In my view, not all denominations are equal, but there is more than one denomination where a person can come to know, love, and serve our Lord and live a fulfilled life as a Christ-follower.
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What does one use to discern whether a denomination is above another denomination, since “not all denominations are equal”?

Of course, one would say “The denomination more consonant with Truth is superior”, but what is the canon one uses for determining this?

One cannot say: the Bible, because all Christian denominations use it.

So how do you tell which denomination is above, when evaluating 2 churches?
 
None of the denominations rise to the level of the Church. They don’t get to receive the grace we get from the sacraments. They don’t get their sins forgiven in the way prescribed by Jesus. They don’t get to eat his body and drink his blood as Jesus commanded us to in John six . They have foregone the intercession of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints . They have a piece of the truth but they are missing so much
 
estesbob said:
None of the denominations rise to the level of the Church. They don’t get to receive the grace we get from the sacraments. They don’t get their sins forgiven in the way prescribed by Jesus. They don’t get to eat his body and drink his blood as Jesus commanded us to in John six . They have foregone the intercession of the Blessed Virgin and the Saints . They have a piece of the truth but they are missing so much
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This is only your opinion. I received the body and blood of Jesus in my Lutheran church when I took communion this morning.
 
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