C
Chris_in_Mich
Guest
Catholic Tom:
When recieving communion the Priest says “amen”, the communicant does not.
- Status
C
Catholic_Tom
Guest
Chris in Mich:
Really? I thought the “AMEN” part was necessary as this was the recipients affirmation that they believe it to be the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ?
E
EddieArent
Guest
One of the thing that angers me about the SSPX is saying they aren’t schismatic. Yet, their top Bishop said they aren’t ready to reconcile with Rome. Enough of the double talk all ready.
T
TNT
Guest
It would be a good idea to print out the ordinary of the Latin Mass at:
truecatholic.org/masstrad.htm
or:
users.starpower.net/jacade/order.html
Or search on “latin mass”,ordinary
Get familiar with it.
In the Latin Mass, the priest proclaims the Body of Christ for each communicant.
You receiving it is admission that IT IS SO.
Remember, the Latin Mass removed the unbaptised before the Offertory took place.
You can also find the Proper of the Mass for the Day you will attend
at:
users.starpower.net/jacade/holyname.html
(Sunday)
truecatholic.org/masstrad.htm
or:
users.starpower.net/jacade/order.html
Or search on “latin mass”,ordinary
Get familiar with it.
In the Latin Mass, the priest proclaims the Body of Christ for each communicant.
You receiving it is admission that IT IS SO.
Remember, the Latin Mass removed the unbaptised before the Offertory took place.
You can also find the Proper of the Mass for the Day you will attend
at:
users.starpower.net/jacade/holyname.html
(Sunday)
T
TNT
Guest
What angers me is that it took a group like SSPX, schismatic or not, to get the Latin Mass back…without them, we would only have the NOM.
The TLM is a growing, vibrant rite. The NOM reached it peak in relative attendance and vocations long ago.
God Bless
E
Exporter
Guest
Catholic Tom:
I can attest thaat Mitch was correct. Before about 1967, you said nothing when taking the Eucharist. But you were kneeling at the rail. And the priest moved along the rail giving communion. When you took the Eucharist you got up and someone else took your place at the alter rail. Some Churches have now removed the rail, not mine.
I can attest thaat Mitch was correct. Before about 1967, you said nothing when taking the Eucharist. But you were kneeling at the rail. And the priest moved along the rail giving communion. When you took the Eucharist you got up and someone else took your place at the alter rail. Some Churches have now removed the rail, not mine.
S
system
Guest
.
QUOTE=EddieArent][Note that It is actually the Novus Ordo, according to many Theologians who are schismatic for abandoning the faith, while it is the laity who follow the traditions who are in communion with Rome, as they Vatican have an agenda to do away with Tradition hence the reason for the New Mass, and the Architects of the Mass, Mr Bugnini and his 6 Protestants, educate yourself below
Collossians **2:8
Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy and vain deceit: according to the tradition of men according to the elements of the world and not according to Christ.
Annibale Bugnini.
Up until the turbulent 1960s, Catholic Liturgy and the mass we celebrated had been the result of centuries of divine inspiration, historic experience, wisdom, refinement, finally codified in the Council of Trent.
This was undone in just a few short years by a handful of new thinking and pastoral men. The guiding light and “main man” of the liturgical commission (which included six Protestant advisor/experts) responsible for this history altering sea change was a fellow by the name of Annibale Bugnini.
Life of Liturgy
Born in Italy in 1912 he became an ordained priest in 1936 at the age of 24. After only 10 years of parish duties, he began liturgical studies and shortly thereafter was appointed by Pope Pius XII to be secretary of his Commission for Liturgical Reform in 1948. He became Consultor to the Sacred Congregation of Rites and Professor of Sacred Liturgy in the Lateran University in 1956 and 1957 respectively.
His real influence began in 1960 when he was appointed Secretary to the Preparatory Commission for the Liturgy.
Canned
Then just a few short months after this apparent victory, Bugnini was mysteriously and promptly removed from both his position as secretary of the commission and from his chair at the Lateran University. This unprecedented move could not have happened without the full consent of Pope John XXIII, or without the (to this day unknown) offense being egregious.
In 1964, a commission called “The Consilium” was established to implement the first document on the Sacred Liturgy (passed in 1963 by the Council Fathers). Unexplainably, Pope Paul VI appointed Bugnini to the position of secretary of the Consilium, ignoring his predecessor who had removed him from the same position on the preparatory commission.
In 1969 Paul VI ended the separate nature of the Consilium by dissolving it and making it part of the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship (which just 6 years later he would suppress), appointing none other than the fallen Bugnini as secretary. Now he was in the most powerful position possible to ensure implementation of his brainchild. He was later consecrated as an Archbishop in 1972.
Canned again
In what Bugnini describes in his book as an “earth shaking” move, he was once again summarily dismissed – this time by Pope Paul VI - from his any and all duties of influence. The Congregation of Divine Worship was suppressed and Bugnini was “exiled” to Iran. This sensational move immediately and permanently ended Mr. Bugnini’s career as a reformer. Once again under mysterious and unexplained circumstances Bugnini, the main architect of Vatican II is harshly rebuked and essentially fired from all of his important duties.
Further facts regarding Mr. Bugnini
In March of 1965 in a periodical known called L’Osservatore Romano, he was quoted as saying: “We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants.”
As far as Bugnini being a Free Mason, I don’t feel it is necessary to shed light on his questionable and still murky past. To this day the Vatican will not deny such an affiliation.
Most loyal Catholics have no idea under what circumstances the revolutionary Vatican II or the modern “Novus Ordo” (translated: “New Order”) mass has come about.
Although not known in many circles, the work of Bugnini and his comrades has drastically affected how we as Catholics worship, lead our lives and interact with the world around us. Those who may have been under the impression that our current method of adoration in general, or Vatican II in particular has been brought about as the result of divine providence or great prudence by men of impeccable character may be disturbed by much of the information provided. They well should be]
QUOTE=EddieArent][Note that It is actually the Novus Ordo, according to many Theologians who are schismatic for abandoning the faith, while it is the laity who follow the traditions who are in communion with Rome, as they Vatican have an agenda to do away with Tradition hence the reason for the New Mass, and the Architects of the Mass, Mr Bugnini and his 6 Protestants, educate yourself below
Collossians **2:8
Beware lest any man cheat you by philosophy and vain deceit: according to the tradition of men according to the elements of the world and not according to Christ.
Annibale Bugnini.
Up until the turbulent 1960s, Catholic Liturgy and the mass we celebrated had been the result of centuries of divine inspiration, historic experience, wisdom, refinement, finally codified in the Council of Trent.
This was undone in just a few short years by a handful of new thinking and pastoral men. The guiding light and “main man” of the liturgical commission (which included six Protestant advisor/experts) responsible for this history altering sea change was a fellow by the name of Annibale Bugnini.
Life of Liturgy
Born in Italy in 1912 he became an ordained priest in 1936 at the age of 24. After only 10 years of parish duties, he began liturgical studies and shortly thereafter was appointed by Pope Pius XII to be secretary of his Commission for Liturgical Reform in 1948. He became Consultor to the Sacred Congregation of Rites and Professor of Sacred Liturgy in the Lateran University in 1956 and 1957 respectively.
His real influence began in 1960 when he was appointed Secretary to the Preparatory Commission for the Liturgy.
Canned
Then just a few short months after this apparent victory, Bugnini was mysteriously and promptly removed from both his position as secretary of the commission and from his chair at the Lateran University. This unprecedented move could not have happened without the full consent of Pope John XXIII, or without the (to this day unknown) offense being egregious.
In 1964, a commission called “The Consilium” was established to implement the first document on the Sacred Liturgy (passed in 1963 by the Council Fathers). Unexplainably, Pope Paul VI appointed Bugnini to the position of secretary of the Consilium, ignoring his predecessor who had removed him from the same position on the preparatory commission.
In 1969 Paul VI ended the separate nature of the Consilium by dissolving it and making it part of the Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship (which just 6 years later he would suppress), appointing none other than the fallen Bugnini as secretary. Now he was in the most powerful position possible to ensure implementation of his brainchild. He was later consecrated as an Archbishop in 1972.
Canned again
In what Bugnini describes in his book as an “earth shaking” move, he was once again summarily dismissed – this time by Pope Paul VI - from his any and all duties of influence. The Congregation of Divine Worship was suppressed and Bugnini was “exiled” to Iran. This sensational move immediately and permanently ended Mr. Bugnini’s career as a reformer. Once again under mysterious and unexplained circumstances Bugnini, the main architect of Vatican II is harshly rebuked and essentially fired from all of his important duties.
Further facts regarding Mr. Bugnini
In March of 1965 in a periodical known called L’Osservatore Romano, he was quoted as saying: “We must strip from our Catholic prayers and from the Catholic liturgy everything which can be the shadow of a stumbling block for our separated brethren that is for the Protestants.”
As far as Bugnini being a Free Mason, I don’t feel it is necessary to shed light on his questionable and still murky past. To this day the Vatican will not deny such an affiliation.
Most loyal Catholics have no idea under what circumstances the revolutionary Vatican II or the modern “Novus Ordo” (translated: “New Order”) mass has come about.
Although not known in many circles, the work of Bugnini and his comrades has drastically affected how we as Catholics worship, lead our lives and interact with the world around us. Those who may have been under the impression that our current method of adoration in general, or Vatican II in particular has been brought about as the result of divine providence or great prudence by men of impeccable character may be disturbed by much of the information provided. They well should be]
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
jtnova:
Old info, been refuted, search the threads, they’re schismatic and their bishops excommunicated.
M
MrS
Guest
JTNOVA:
Thanks for your post. Too many posters have let the ambiguities of Vatican II sway their thoughts.
And by the way, your Bishop need not “approve” the celebration of the TLM by a priest (who must use the 62 Missal). The Bishop of Rome, JPII, has already approved and encouraged a wide use of the TLM.
Thanks for your post. Too many posters have let the ambiguities of Vatican II sway their thoughts.
And by the way, your Bishop need not “approve” the celebration of the TLM by a priest (who must use the 62 Missal). The Bishop of Rome, JPII, has already approved and encouraged a wide use of the TLM.
M
MrS
Guest
What part of the post you replied to metions any group other than the “movers/shakers” from Vat II?
S
system
Guest
God bless you, our Bishop Murphy here in the Diocese of Rockville centre, will not allow the Indult, we have all approached him and he actually has told us to GO To ST PIUS X, can you belive that, and others here are saying they are schismatic, but our own Bishop of over 1.2M catholics in Queens and Long Island with all of these churches will not allow even ONE Indult Mass and told me and about 100 others from the Parish to go trek 20 miles to St Pius X,which we do most of the time.
MrS:
K
katherine2
Guest
jtnova:
Really? When did he tell you this? I’m sure you heard correctly “you can go to…”, its just the last few words I doubt.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Not to be lacking in charity, but my response is the same:***Old info, been refuted, search the threads, they’re schismatic and their bishops excommunicated. ***This is a dead horse. I’m not arguing against the TLM. I’m not arguing against the Indult. I think it should be widely and generously applied. That is what our Holy Father intended. But…SSPX is schismatic and their bishops are still excommunicated. One cannot say differently any more than one can say that Pope John Paul was a former running back for the Washington Redskins.
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
jtnova:
That’s bad. AND it not in the spirit of JPII, who wants the indult allowed generously. Why don’t the 100+ people appeal?!?!? People are doing all over, very quietly, for variety of reasons: liturgical abuses, heterodoxy, etc. As a group, ask the bishop one more time. Then write the next person up the chain, I assume the apostolic delegate. Then send letters to the congregation in charge of such things at the Holy See. Or write altogther to the Holy Father! The bishop may let you have it so as not to rock the boat. That seems to be the primary concern of so many of our dear shepherds. I bet your bishop wouldn’t want the Holy Father to be told that he told all of you to go to a schismatic group. I bet there’d be a job for him counting votive candles in some back room in the Vatican!!!
S
system
Guest
I would appreciate it if many on this board e-mail our bishop at www.drvc.org and ask him why he wont let the Indult mass be said or in any church. St Agnes, the diocese parish Cathedral where we go (sometimes when my family and I are not driving to the TLM) has mass in spanish, Polish I think, all kinds of Languages, and wont allow in this or any of the churches the Indult. You see, the Pope is a good man, but he does not know what is going on here in America, just how liberal it has become here. The Bishops are running amok and no one is looking after them. If me and the thousands, and it is thousands here in Long Island who attend masses said by St Pius V, St Pius X, and many other Independent Traditional priests here are called schismatic, then so be it. The Mass was never to be tampered with and Vatican II was not supposed to throw away the TLM, but supplement it with the Novus Ordo, as Pope Paul VI said, but the left of the church just ran away with things
Thanks for caring
JKirkLVNV:
Thanks for caring
K
katherine2
Guest
jtnova:
It would seem he does not see a pastoral need for it. I’ve already written to “Mansion Murphy” about his attacks against VOTF. I don’t think I have any good offices with him.
I think he does and that he think indults can be left to local ordinaries.
S
system
Guest
So you know Mansion Murphy also, is he blind to the people and his parish or what? I am not against the New Mass being said, but why does it seem that the people like me who want to hold the Traditions seem to be labeled and pushed aside? I think like in the last election we are taken for granted, to never leave the church, and the liberals seem to get what they want. God bless
katherine2:
K
katherine2
Guest
jtnova:
*I’ve never seen him as very pastoral but instead a bit of a clericalist. if the celebration of the former Mass would serve as pastoral good, I think he should allow it. *
T
TNT
Guest
jtnova:
JPII just this week promoted Fiorenza to Archbishop less than 12 months after he trashed a Novus Ordo priest for wanting to say the TLM! Would not let him join the FSSP and suspended the poor man for obeying his conscience re. the Worship of God!
In order to say the TLM, he had to join the SSPX or sit in a rest home. JPII knows exactly what’s going on…so does Ratzinger, et al.
God Bless you, but Pleeeeeese!
JPII just this week promoted Fiorenza to Archbishop less than 12 months after he trashed a Novus Ordo priest for wanting to say the TLM! Would not let him join the FSSP and suspended the poor man for obeying his conscience re. the Worship of God!
In order to say the TLM, he had to join the SSPX or sit in a rest home. JPII knows exactly what’s going on…so does Ratzinger, et al.
L
luke2219
Guest
I don’t think the promotion had much to do with Fiorenza. The Diocese of Galveston-Houston is being made an Archdiocese, so that title just comes with the territory. Plus, Fiorenza has only about a year left before he retires. Bishop Daniel DiNardo will be his replacement and is already serving as co-adjudicator. He’s a great guy, and an excellent speaker. Many people here are eagerly awaiting the changing of the guard. Most don’t think any ill of Fiorenza but are excited that this diocese will soon have a different style of leadership.
This is the first I’ve heard that Fr. Zigrang wanted to join the FSSP. Can you back that up? Either way, I’m very hopeful (and I think with good reason) that DiNardo will handle the SSPX and the indult in a way that will be pleasing to many more people than are pleased right now. It won’t be possible to please everyone, but I think most of the more reasonable people will be thrilled.
Pax et bonum
- Status