"Tridentine Mass--Will Anyone Come?" Catholic Press doing a smear job on the TLM

[AngelicDoctor]

Fr. Daly does express some opinions about why people go to the TLM – but we must realize that is his observation. Let’s not discount observation as a hatchet job.

Deacon Ed,
I should also say that, in my opinion, Fr. Daly’s commentary functions as a “hatchet job” (perhaps even unintentionally so?) because he is giving his (insufficiently informed) impressions of a liturgy that a great number–the majority of his readera–have never experienced for themselvews. Instead of having an article that educated people on the TLM (many people I know are curious about what it is), he just decides to ‘pooh pooh’ it.

I think Fr. Daly’s article would have been more neutral, less agenda-driven, and more charitable if he undertook to actually sit down with some TLM worshippers and ask them why they go to that mass. (and I mean a reasonable sample of such people–not just the crabby old ladies from his parish ). Heck, he could have posted a question here on the CA forum. He would have gotten a lot of feedback, and he could have summarized his findings, and then wrote some commentary. Perhaps he still would have found fault with some of the motivations expressed. At least, however, he would have been more informed and would have given a wider picture for his readers. That would have been a whole lot more useful than what he actually wrote.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I can’t answer for your diocese, but I’ve often thought that the attitude of many of those who self-identify as “traditionalists” (smug superiority, the denigration of the Pauline Mass, the Council, the popes, etc) was the TLM’s WORST enemy and might keep people from wanting anything to do with the TLM. I can’t prove it, it’s just a hunch.

Of course, attitude can feed attitude. Traditionalists probably wouldn’t react so strongly if liberals/progressivists had not so thoroughly disenfranchised them, for all intents and purposes.

Just like the feel good, love one another, I’m holy, smug spirituality of some progressive Catholics has the ability to smear all non-traditional Catholics? Would that be a fair comparison?

 

[holy_roamer]

I was at the Saint Margaret Mary Tridentine High Mass again today and the pews were full. The Spirit was really moving during the Gregorian Chants. It was beautiful. As a Charismatic I could sense the healing that was taking place; people were being ministered to and receiving the anointing by simply being present in the church.

The homily was also Spirit lead, and I could sense the Holy Spirit directing every word that the priest said. I believe that the people in church today were called by the Holy Spirit to be there. It was God’s will that they separate them selves from the modern way of doing things. We are called to holiness.

Then, there was the reading of the Epistle and the Gospel. The word is so powerful that Jesus used it to defeat Satan, so it penetrated everyone in church today. Now, I’m not saying that the NO Mass people didn’t experience the same revelations, because I wasn’t there.

 

[Jakub]

The Tidings (the LA Archdiocese News Paper) has a comment button which I tried to use but for some reason it was out of service…

To each his own but please give me and others the same opportunity to worship as those who prefer the newer rite, no more no less.

james

 

[Genesis315]

I can’t answer for your diocese, but I’ve often thought that the attitude of many of those who self-identify as “traditionalists” (smug superiority, the denigration of the Pauline Mass, the Council, the popes, etc) was the TLM’s WORST enemy and might keep people from wanting anything to do with the TLM. I can’t prove it, it’s just a hunch.

Of course, attitude can feed attitude. Traditionalists probably wouldn’t react so strongly if liberals/progressivists had not so thoroughly disenfranchised them, for all intents and purposes.

I completely agree–some folks have loaded the TLM up with a bunch of negative baggage that the rest of us have to suffer the consequences of. It reminds me of the words of Saints like Pius X and John of Kanty who said a bitter zeal ends up doing more harm than good.

Traditionalists need to give progressive opposition zero excuses. Out-love them, let the fire of our charity enkindle the same in them. Act with all patience, mildness, and humility. If they persecute, bear it well as a penance. That’s the way to get things done

 

[KathleenElsie]

I completely agree–some folks have loaded the TLM up with a bunch of negative baggage that the rest of us have to suffer the consequences of. It reminds me of the words of Saints like Pius X and John of Kanty who said a bitter zeal ends up doing more harm than good.

Traditionalists need to give progressive opposition zero excuses. Out-love them, let the fire of our charity enkindle the same in them. Act with all patience, mildness, and humility. If they persecute, bear it well as a penance. That’s the way to get things done

In some ways I agree with you. In others I humbly disagree. The situation is a two way street in that BOTH extremes need to rekindle CHARITY. Those that have been faithfully waiting for the TLM and going to the Pauline Masses for many many years now feel the need of Peace and TRANQUILITY not the accusations that paint ALL AS EXTREMISTS.

Traditional, Progressive, Liberal, Conservative and on and on we can go with the PAINTBRUSH yet never see the needs (yes needs) of others in form of Worship. We are one in Holy Mother Church and we all (well we should) see the Center of our Mass as the EUCHARIST.

Just please let us ALL remember WE ARE CATHOLIC.

 

[siouxbhoney]

I am new to all of this, so have patience with me. My husband offered up the best argument for the Latin Mass that I’ve heard so far. Being still in RCIA classes, I was a little afraid of the Latin Mass, and I’d heard bad things about it from my prodestant family. My husband pointed out a Church that we went to last year that had an english and a spanish mass. He pointed out that the Latin mass would make that unneccessary, and everyone could worship and commune together. I thought that was great. I would love to go to church with EVERYONE, instead of having to seperate. I think it’s kind of neat, having a language set aside for worship. I know that is not how latin started, but seems to be that now.

 

[Rabbititus]

I wouldn’t have even considered going to a TLM one year ago. I dismissed it as a boring ritual in a language I didn’t speak. Then I saw it:

youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE

Now I’m counting down the days to my first TLM in early October. I’ve bought my '62 Missal, and I’ve completely fallen in love with the Mass. Minds can change quickly. As the TLM spreads, interest will grow.

I rather think the same thing - people generally don’t crave something they have no familiarity with - or at least they don’t crave it enough to drive a long distance. The only thing that’s kept me from attending a TLM is that I would have to drive at least an hour to see one and I wouldn’t be able to go to church with my family. I also like the fact that I currently attend a neighborhood church - I run into people from church at work, at school, at the park, etc - this wouldn’t happen if I chose to be a traditionalist. I’m going to get out to one eventually, but it could never be a weekly or monthly affair even if I did really love it.

I imagine that demand for the old mass will grow as more people are given truly convenient access to it - convenient access meaning they don’t have to drive to another city, county, or state to see one and give up having a genuine sense of a neighborhood parish community.

 

[paramedicgirl]

That’s why the televising of the TLM on EWTN is going to really help people understand the sacredness of the ancient Mass. It will be good for people to see what the TLM is all about, from a source like EWTN.

 

[holy_roamer]

In some ways I agree with you. In others I humbly disagree. The situation is a two way street in that BOTH extremes need to rekindle CHARITY. Those that have been faithfully waiting for the TLM and going to the Pauline Masses for many many years now feel the need of Peace and TRANQUILITY not the accusations that paint ALL AS EXTREMISTS.

Traditional, Progressive, Liberal, Conservative and on and on we can go with the PAINTBRUSH yet never see the needs (yes needs) of others in form of Worship. We are one in Holy Mother Church and we all (well we should) see the Center of our Mass as the EUCHARIST.

Just please let us ALL remember WE ARE CATHOLIC.

Hello Kathleen, I always enjoy talking to you. By positioning the Eucharist as central, you have alienated the brother Christian denominations recognized by the Pope, plus groups within your own denomination. Placing everything as being peripheral to the Eucharist just wont work inside your own organization.

To be practical about it, a church service is a church service, regardless of whether a person actually believes, or whether someone told a teenager years ago not to ask questions about the Eucharist, and told them, just do it!

What I’m trying to say is that Christ was a priest, and He is greater than Aaron and Melchizedek or any other modern day priest. We can all go directly to God the Father though the priesthood the Christ.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Hello Kathleen, I always enjoy talking to you. By positioning the Eucharist as central, you have alienated the brother Christian denominations recognized by the Pope, plus groups within your own denomination. Placing everything as being peripheral to the Eucharist just wont work inside your own organization.

To be practical about it, a church service is a church service, regardless of whether a person actually believes, or whether someone told a teenager years ago not to ask questions about the Eucharist, and told them, just do it!

What I’m trying to say is that Christ was a priest, and He is greater than Aaron and Melchizedek or any other modern day priest. We can all go directly to God the Father though the priesthood the Christ.

A church service may be just that - a church service. But the Mass is the Holy Sacrifice of Calvary reenacted in an unbloody manner for our spiritual benefit. It is the means of grace that Christ established on this earth for our salvation. And the Eucharist is what makes it a Mass.

Jesus wants us to come to Him through the priesthood that He established here on earth. Priests have been destined by God to be the salt of this earth so that they may, through His grace, preserve souls from the corruption of sins. That is why Origen calls priests “physicians of souls” and St. Jerome calls them “spiritual physicians.”

 

[Ad_Deum]

I read the article, and I’m offended by his opinions regarding the Venerable rite TLM. I’ll understand if the article was written by a non-Catholic who dislikes Catholics, but this one is very hyprocritical in perspective, initiative and opinion from a priest.

Let’s pray for those who are lost!!!

Pax
Instaurare omnia in CHristo

 

[vern_humphrey]

I just came upon this article in my lame-o Archdiocesan newspaper. It is from a column called “Parish Diary” by a Fr. Peter Daly. Basically, it is another hit piece on the Traditional Latin Mass. This priest really maligns traditional Catholics and presumes that their motives for attending the old rite are base. Incidentally, this is the third article in 2 weeks from my diocesan paper that has had an anti-motu proprio tone.
Why are people so threatened by the motu proprio and the TLM. No one will be forced to attend… why the resentment?

See article at this link:

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1882534/posts

Most of the people who come are elderly. They like this Mass because it is quiet and short.

The Tridentine Mass is short, compared to the NO mass?!?!

 

[AngelicDoctor]

Hello Kathleen, I always enjoy talking to you. By positioning the Eucharist as central, you have alienated the brother Christian denominations recognized by the Pope, plus groups within your own denomination. Placing everything as being peripheral to the Eucharist just wont work inside your own organization.

To be practical about it, a church service is a church service, regardless of whether a person actually believes, or whether someone told a teenager years ago not to ask questions about the Eucharist, and told them, just do it!

What I’m trying to say is that Christ was a priest, and He is greater than Aaron and Melchizedek or any other modern day priest. We can all go directly to God the Father though the priesthood the Christ.

Holy Roamer. Hello. I understand that you do not believe in the Eucharist as a sacrifice. Catholics DO go directly to God the Father through the priesthood of Christ. That is the heart of the worship going on at the Mass. Catholics believe that Jesus Christ–as an expression of his limitless love and mercy–gave us sinful men and women a share in his universal priesthood. Through baptism we all have receive a share in Jesus’ priesthood so that we can offer thanks, praise, suffering, obedience, worship, joys–IN UNION WITH JESUS CHRIST to God the Father in the Holy Spirit. To those men who are called, Jesus grants a unique, SACRAMENTAL sharing in this ministerial priesthood. Jesus came to earth and forgave sins, healed people, and taught (using, by the way, ‘sacramental’ physical things from the natural world–mud, spit, oil, etc.), etc. Today, Jesus still does forgive sins, heals people, and teaches but he does so in a special way through the priestly ministers. When a priest celebrates the Holy Eucharist, he stands in the person of Christ (in persona Christi)… when we hear the words of institution “This is MY body…This is MY blood…” it is Jesus our Lord pronouncing these words through the priestly minister. The same situation occurs when we hear Jesus makes use of the human earthly minister to hear the sins confessed and to pronounce the merciful words of forgiveness (see Jn 20:21-23). The same happens when a priest annoints the sick (see James 5:13-15). We have one mediator between God and man. His name is Jesus Christ and he works through human instruments to give us his grace.

The Eucharist begins with the Liturgy of the Word, and the Word of God in Sacred Scripture prepares our hearts for the re-presentation sacrifice of Christ–the Passover-like celebration of the entire Paschal mystery (suffering, death, and resurrection of Christ). (See Luke 24:13-35). God bless.

 

[AngelicDoctor]

I have read that Fr. Daly’s priest-friend denies saying some of the things he is supposed to have said and objected to the local bishop.

Mystified,
Do you recall the specific source where you read that? I would be interested in reading more about that.

 

[Brooklyn]

I am what some refer to as a “revert”. I was baptized as a baby, received the saraments, and then left the Church when I was a teenager. My DH and I started attending again just this past Pentecost, and I just went to confession a week ago. I first received the sacraments in the mid-60’s, before Vatican II had really taken effect. The Latin Mass is the only one I really know. The New Order Mass (is that what it’s called?), is pretty foreign to both my DH and me. It seems very simplistic to me. We, fortunately, have a Church not far from us that celebrates the Tridentine Mass every Sunday, so that is where we have been going.

Now, it could be that it’s because it is what I know from my childhood, but I just find it so much more reverential and sacred. No one gabs in the Church before or after Mass, and I love the ringing of the bells at the Consecration, which is not always done in the new Mass. I just truly feel the presence of Christ in the Tridentine Mass.

I think there will be a lot of people who will go to the Tridentine Mass when they discover the beauty of it. There is a reason why it survived for hundreds and hundreds of years.

Mary

 

[stmaria]

I wouldn’t have even considered going to a TLM one year ago. I dismissed it as a boring ritual in a language I didn’t speak. Then I saw it:

youtube.com/watch?v=enWiFcsBqIE

Now I’m counting down the days to my first TLM in early October. I’ve bought my '62 Missal, and I’ve completely fallen in love with the Mass. Minds can change quickly. As the TLM spreads, interest will grow.

The TLM is full of symbolism. This list will help to enjoy the TLM even more. Here is a partial list:

The Douay Catechism of 1649

Q. 954. What meaneth the priest’s coming back three steps from the Altar, and
humbling himself before he begins?
A. It signifies the prostrating of Christ in the garden, when he began his passion.
Q. 955. Why doth the priest bow himself again at the Confiteor?
A. To move the people to humiliation; and to signify that by the merits and passion of
Christ, (which they are there to commemorate) salvation may be had, if it be sought with
a contrite and humble heart.
Q. 956. Why doth he beat his breast as Mea Culpa?
A. To teach the people to return into the heart, and signifies that all sin is from the heart,
and ought to be discharged from the heart, with hearty sorrow.

[Edited by Moderator]

complete list remnantnewspaper.com/The%20Douay%20Catechism%20of%201649.pdf

 

[holy_roamer]

Holy Roamer. Hello. I understand that you do not believe in the Eucharist as a sacrifice. Catholics DO go directly to God the Father through the priesthood of Christ. That is the heart of the worship going on at the Mass. Catholics believe that Jesus Christ–as an expression of his limitless love and mercy–gave us sinful men and women a share in his universal priesthood. Through baptism we all have receive a share in Jesus’ priesthood so that we can offer thanks, praise, suffering, obedience, worship, joys–IN UNION WITH JESUS CHRIST to God the Father in the Holy Spirit. To those men who are called, Jesus grants a unique, SACRAMENTAL sharing in this ministerial priesthood. Jesus came to earth and forgave sins, healed people, and taught (using, by the way, ‘sacramental’ physical things from the natural world–mud, spit, oil, etc.), etc. Today, Jesus still does forgive sins, heals people, and teaches but he does so in a special way through the priestly ministers. When a priest celebrates the Holy Eucharist, he stands in the person of Christ (in persona Christi)… when we hear the words of institution “This is MY body…This is MY blood…” it is Jesus our Lord pronouncing these words through the priestly minister. The same situation occurs when we hear Jesus makes use of the human earthly minister to hear the sins confessed and to pronounce the merciful words of forgiveness (see Jn 20:21-23). The same happens when a priest annoints the sick (see James 5:13-15). We have one mediator between God and man. His name is Jesus Christ and he works through human instruments to give us his grace.

The Eucharist begins with the Liturgy of the Word, and the Word of God in Sacred Scripture prepares our hearts for the re-presentation sacrifice of Christ–the Passover-like celebration of the entire Paschal mystery (suffering, death, and resurrection of Christ). (See Luke 24:13-35). God bless.

Thanks, I appreciate your write up on the Eucharist and l always enjoy reading Bible Verses. In my post to Kathleen I was trying to point out that by whipping out the term “Eucharist” she was alienating a lot of Christians that, by the way, the Holy Father hasn’t alienated.

I believe that it would be far more beneficial to the Catholic faith if the laypeople would stop substituting “Eucharist” when the word Jesus should be used. According to the Bible it’s the name of Jesus that has spiritual power, not the Eucharist. For those Catholic who don’t, “just do it”, and actually believe the Eucharist is more than a symbolic gesture, well more power to them. It’s between them and God, but I would rather hear the word Jesus.

Getting back to the topic of this thread, how can we expect anyone to come to a Tridentine Mass if we don’t hold up our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for the whole world to see?

 

[Dauphin]

The TLM is full of symbolism. This list will help to enjoy the TLM even more. Here is a partial list:

The Douay Catechism of 1649
.
.
.
.
complete list remnantnewspaper.com/The%20Douay%20Catechism%20of%201649.pdf

Thanks! I’m sure I’ll enjoy looking through that!

 

[Nella]

I just came upon this article in my lame-o Archdiocesan newspaper. It is from a column called “Parish Diary” by a Fr. Peter Daly. Basically, it is another hit piece on the Traditional Latin Mass. This priest really maligns traditional Catholics and presumes that their motives for attending the old rite are base. Incidentally, this is the third article in 2 weeks from my diocesan paper that has had an anti-motu proprio tone.
Why are people so threatened by the motu proprio and the TLM. No one will be forced to attend… why the resentment?

See article at this link:

freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1882534/posts

I don’t believe that I would attend anyway; I’m Episcopalian.