Trinity and Mathematics?

  • Thread starter Thread starter YHWH_Christ
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
FIrst, you claim these are strained, how so? you just said you could show the misinterpretation, show me.
Second, these aren’t interpretations, they are explicit statements. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Clear statement, no ambiguity. In Matthew 12:7-8, Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. Clear statement. Who is Lord of the Sabbath according to the Old Testament?
And John 20:28- clear and precise, no mystery. Thomas affirms Jesus as “my Lord and my God.” Or as the Greek literally words it, " The Lord of me and the God of me." There is no straining here. Just simply statements.
Third, these passages are just the beginning. The New Testament is full of passages referring to the Deity of the Son: Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1; Romans 9:5; John 5:23; Hebrews 1; Revelation 1:13; 22:13-16; Colossians 1:16; 2:9; John 1:18. And then there are the passages that implicitly imply that Jesus is God, such as passages in Mark that speak of Jesus forgiving sins and the Pharisees question Him saying only God can forgive sins. and this is without mention of the Messianic prophecies that refer to Jesus as God.
No strained interpretation. Clear exegesis. And all in accord with the rest of Scripture and the Apostolic Tradition handed down to us.
 
Can the greatest commandments describe part of the Trinity.

God the Father loves God the Son as he loves himself.
God the Son loves the Father as he loves himself.

Can there be any greater love? Could the Father love the Son more than he loves himself?

Do the greatest commandments have a greatest meaning for God? Jesus could do nothing greater when he spent his time on Earth.

Just some thoughts.
 
SeekerOfTruth7 said:
Second, these aren’t interpretations, they are explicit statements. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” Clear statement, no ambiguity.
Click to expand...
1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
1:2The same was in the beginning with God.
First Gospels are not direct revelation. Some people had writen the life of prophet Jesus later. And we have not the original texts. Some interpretations by interpretations.

“The word was with God” means the word and God are distinct concepts.

For the word was God? Well…That is John’s words! My interpretation: God order to a thing to be and it is. Jesus is called as ruhullah(spirit of God) and also kalimatullah(word of God). Because Jesus was a soul which were given Mary by Holy Spirit. Jesus was born without a father. That is easy for God because when God will something to be God just order “be” which is a word.
 
mhmtas63 said:
…
Word became fresh. The word of God. It was God who ordered the “Be” word.
Click to expand...
The Word became flesh. It is called the Incarnation. That moment is when the Second Person, the Son of God assumed a human nature in addition to the divine nature. The assumed human nature has a body and a soul. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have only one will and one mind, never independent but one.

St. Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa Theologiae, Pt. III, Q. 3, Art. 1, Reply Obj. 1:
Since the divine Person is infinite, no addition can be made to it: Hence Cyril says [Council of Ephesus 431 A.D. , Part I, ch. 26]:
“We do not conceive the mode of conjunction to be according to addition”; just as in the union of man with God, nothing is added to God by the grace of adoption, but what is divine is united to man; hence, not God but man is perfected.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
T’is better to get to Know each of the Three Divine Persons
  • as They are presented to us within the New Testament
 
You said the Word and God are distinct concepts, false. The Greek there is KAI HO LOGOS EN PROS TON THEON. Which shows that the Word is in relationship to God. Verse 18 of the chapter shows that the Word is the Son and God is the Father therefore showing the relationship. Not two separate concepts. Nothing in the Greek or English would denote that. Bad interpretation
And then calling Jesus the spirit of God is one of the worst interpretations I have ever heard . No where in the Bible is Jesus called the spirit of God. That’s pure conjecture and eisigesis. And interpreting this verse the way you just did doesn’t agree with all the rest of the scriptures I presented.
Finally, the las clause of John 1:1 is And the Word was God. This is a qualitative noun since it is without the article showing that The Word isn’t the God that the Word is with, for that would be Modalism. But instead this noun shows that the Word has all that makes God a God. The Word is not God the Father, He is God the Son as verse 18 makes clear in its restating of the prologue.
Exegesis requires this.
 
mhmtas63 said:
There is no any revelation about Trinity. Trinity is a doctrine which concluded by some interpretations but not sourced from revelation.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say it’s “concluded by some.” More like developed by the Church in accordance with Scripture and guided by the holy spirit.

The word Trinity doesn’t appear but there are verses throughout the Bible that mention God the Father, son and holy spirit separately and together.

Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove, and a voice came from heaven, “Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased" Luke 3:21-22

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19
 
Zach said:
Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form, as a dove, and a voice came from heaven, “Thou art my beloved Son; with thee I am well pleased" Luke 3:21-22

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19
Click to expand...
You say Jesus is God. But Jesus was a human. You say Holy Spirit is God. But Holy Spirit got form of a dove! What about Father? I say: Father do not get any material form because Father is the unique God.

Holy Spirit is angel Gabriel and angels can take any form.
 
mhmtas63 said:
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit Matthew 28:19
Click to expand...
Baptism is some kind of getting pure from sins and accepting faith and religion. We(any one) profess in the name of God(Allah) and prophet Muhammad to get into Islam. Baptism is some kind of ablution and one must take ablution to accept Islam.

I mean Baptism in the name of Jesus and Holy Spirit do not make Jesus and Holy Spirit to be God.
 
mhmtas63 said:
Father do not get any material form because Father is the unique God.
Click to expand...
In Exodus God appeared out of a burning bush. Also Exodus God appeared in a pillar of cloud and fire. He was also in fire on Mount Sinai which created smoke.
mhmtas63 said:
I mean Baptism in the name of Jesus and Holy Spirit do not make Jesus and Holy Spirit to be God.
Click to expand...
By that logic one could just as well say baptism in the name of the Father doesn’t make the Father God. Why mention the son and holy spirit and not just say in the name of the Father? It’s not consistent to say the father is God but the son and holy spirit aren’t when all three are mentioned in the same context.
 
Zach said:
In Exodus God appeared out of a burning bush. Also Exodus God appeared in a pillar of cloud and fire. He was also in fire on Mount Sinai which created smoke.
Click to expand...
That is not getting form. It is just becoming manifest(tajalli). It is some kind of moral reflection.
 
Zach said:
By that logic one could just as well say baptism in the name of the Father doesn’t make the Father God. Why mention the son and holy spirit and not just say in the name of the Father? It’s not consistent to say the father is God but the son and holy spirit aren’t when all three are mentioned in the same context.
Click to expand...
All prophets preached to believe in them and God. Also Jesus and Muhammad preached in that manner. But they are not God.
 
The word made flesh and the holy spirit descending are not prophets. Even if you say Jesus was a prophet he was also God/word/logos/son who baptised with the holy spirit instead of water and who was immeasuraby greater than the other prophets that they couldn’t even untie his sandals.
 
Amen!

But, alas, I don’t think @mhmtas63 is going to ever agree. The points have been clearly explained and proven from Scripture by multiple authors and he isn’t going to agree, but instead believe an Arabian man bringing a different message than the historical, biblical, and Apostolic gospel that has been passed down.
 
SeekerOfTruth7 said:
Amen!

But, alas, I don’t think @mhmtas63 is going to ever agree. The points have been clearly explained and proven from Scripture by multiple authors and he isn’t going to agree, but instead believe an Arabian man bringing a different message than the historical, biblical, and Apostolic gospel that has been passed down.
Click to expand...
No. You misinterpret Gospels. It is so clear that a man cannot be God and God is not a man. That is so obvious fact Jesus declared many times. Jesus said that he was a prophet(Mark 6:4). Jesus said God is one(Mark 12:29). Jesus always point Father to be God. The claim Jesus to be God is not from scripture.
 
Just as obvious as the rest of the Scriptural references to Jesus being God in flesh. Look at the passages I referenced above. I will let them do the talking.

God bless
 
And Jesus does refer to himself as God contrary to what claimed a few posts ago. In John, Jesus says “before Abraham was I Am”. I am being also how God referred to himself at the burning bush. The Jews understood what Jesus was saying and stoned him for blasphemy. Also in John Jesus said he and the Father are one. Again he is stoned for blasphemy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top