Trinity within the Eucharist?

[Nita]

“There are 3 Persons in One God”, is Theologically incorrect. There are three Persons in one essence (which is divinity). The same with, “There are 3 persons in one human”. There are three persons in one essence (which is humanity).

It is theologically correct.
Aquinas says, “God is the same as His essence or nature.” Triuneness of Persons IS the essence/nature of Divinity.
See Summa Theologica Part 1, Question 3, Article 3 (and subsequent Articles)
newadvent.org/summa/1003.htm

From Article 3 - "Whether God Is the Same As His Essence or Nature"I answer that,** God is the same as His essence or nature**. To understand this, it must be noted that in things composed of matter and form, the nature or essence must differ from the “suppositum,” … Since God then is not composed of matter and form, He must be His own Godhead, His own Life, and whatever else is thus predicated of Him.

 

[Zekariya]

It is theologically correct.
Aquinas says, “God is the same as His essence or nature.” Triuneness of Persons IS the essence/nature of Divinity.
See Summa Theologica Part 1, Question 3, Article 3 (and subsequent Articles)
newadvent.org/summa/1003.htm

From Article 3 - "Whether God Is the Same As His Essence or Nature"I answer that, God is the same as His essence or nature. To understand this, it must be noted that in things composed of matter and form, the nature or essence must differ from the “suppositum,” … Since God then is not composed of matter and form, He must be His own Godhead, His own Life, and whatever else is thus predicated of Him.

I do not read him saying that all Persons of the Trinity are the same Person. Did the Father become a man since Jesus is divine?

 

[Zekariya]

Here is an answer from a CAF Apologist. The Trinity has a “spiritual presence” not a “real presence”. Christ is the only one with a “real presence”.
Fr. Vincent Serpa:

As for identifying the Trinity with the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, we must recognize that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus only. The Father and the Holy Spirit are spirits and do not have bodies. They did not become incarnate. While the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons, the Catechism tells us: “each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property.” (#258) So while Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and co-equal with them, we only speak of the Eucharist, and therefore the Real Presence, in terms of HIS body. The indwelling presence of the whole Trinity is a spiritual presence and not an incarnate one.

Source: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=601723

[emphasis mine]

 

[Nita]

I do not read him saying that all Persons of the Trinity are the same Person. Did the Father become a man since Jesus is divine?

He is not saying they are the same “Person”, “God” is not a single “Person”;
but there is only a single (one) “God” and that God/Godhead is 3 Persons.

 

[Zekariya]

He is not saying they are the same “Person”, “God” is not a single “Person”;
but there is only a single “God” and that God/Godhead is 3 Persons.

One of the Three Persons became man. One of the Three Persons is really present in the Eucharist.

Here is an answer from a CAF Apologist that I posted (that has been conspicuously ignored). The Trinity has a “spiritual presence” not a “real presence”. Christ is the only one with a “real presence”.
Fr. Vincent Serpa:

As for identifying the Trinity with the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, we must recognize that the Eucharist is the body and blood of Jesus only. The Father and the Holy Spirit are spirits and do not have bodies. They did not become incarnate. While the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons, the Catechism tells us: “each divine person performs the common work according to his unique personal property.” (#258) So while Jesus is one with the Father and the Holy Spirit and co-equal with them, we only speak of the Eucharist, and therefore the Real Presence, in terms of HIS body. The indwelling presence of the whole Trinity is a spiritual presence and not an incarnate one.

Source: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=601723

[emphasis mine]

 

[cjforJesus]

The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained."202 "This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203

John 17:21
That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

 

[Nita]

One of the Three Persons became man. One of the Three Persons is really present in the Eucharist.

Here is an answer from a CAF Apologist that I posted (that has been conspicuously ignored). The Trinity has a “spiritual presence” not a “real presence”. Christ is the only one with a “real presence”.

Source: [emphasis mine]I agree with all of the above. I don’t think the CAF Apologist info was ignored, it’s just that everyone agreed with it.

My last posts have been in response to your statement in Post #17, where you said:
“There are 3 Persons in One God”, is Theologically incorrect.
Since that statement is erroneous I felt it should be pointed out.
Sorry if it’s gotten the thread off-topic somewhat.

 

[Zekariya]

My last posts have been in response to your statement in Post #17, where you said:
“There are 3 Persons in One God”, is Theologically incorrect.
Since that statement is erroneous I felt it should be pointed out.
Sorry if it’s gotten the thread off-topic somewhat.

My bad. I misread that. I retract that statement.

 

[cjforJesus]

I think Fr Serpa neglected to mention that the Eucharist is also Christ’s DIVINITY. According to the catechism we receive the body,blood soul and divinity of Jesus in the Holy Sacrament. Because that divinity is permanetly linked to the Father and Holy Spirit,all three persons always act together.

It has been explained to me by a nice Carmelite Friar that when we receive the Eucharist we also receive the Spirit.

 

[cjforJesus]

Once after Holy Communion, I heard these words: You are our dwelling place. At that moment I felt in my soul the presence of the Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. I felt that I was the Temple of God. I felt that I was a child of the Father. I cannot explain all this, but the Spirit understands this well (451). St Faustina

On one occasion God’s presence pervaded my whole being and my mind was mysteriously enlightened in respect to His Essence. He allowed me to understand His interior life. In spirit I saw the Three Divine Persons; none of them is either greater or smaller; there is no difference in either beauty or sanctity, for They are One. They are absolutely One. His Love transported me into this knowledge and united me with Himself. When I was united to One, I was equally united to the Second and to the Third in such a way that when we are united with One, by that very fact, we are equally united to the Two Persons in the same way as with the One. Their will is One, One God though in Three Persons. When One of the Three Persons communicates with a soul, by the power of that one will, it finds itself united with the Three Persons and is inundated in the happiness flowing from the Most Holy Trinity, the same happiness that nourishes the saints. This same happiness that streams from the Most Holy Trinity makes all creation happy; from it springs that life which vivifies and bestows all life which takes its beginning from Him. In these moments, my soul experienced such great delights that I find this difficult to express.

 

[rom422]

The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments as "the perfection of the spiritual life and the end to which all the sacraments tend."201 In the most blessed sacrament of the Eucharist "the body and blood, together with the soul and divinity, of our Lord Jesus Christ and, therefore, the whole Christ is truly, really, and substantially contained."202 "This presence is called ‘real’ - by which is not intended to exclude the other types of presence as if they could not be ‘real’ too, but because it is presence in the fullest sense: that is to say, it is a substantial presence by which Christ, God and man, makes himself wholly and entirely present."203

John 17:21
That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us; that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Thank you for these quotes. It is important to understand that when Catholics teach the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, what is intended is that Christ’s presence is not merely symbolic (as some protestants believe), or metaphorical, or imaginary, but truly real. This is why we kneel before the Blessed Sacrament. We know that what we worship is not the bread, but Christ Himself, being really and wholly present (body, soul, and divinity) under the appearance of the bread.

 

[cjforJesus]

Thank you for these quotes. It is important to understand that when Catholics teach the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, what is intended is that Christ’s presence is not merely symbolic (as some protestants believe), or metaphorical, or imaginary, but truly real. This is why we kneel before the Blessed Sacrament. We know that what we worship is not the bread, but Christ Himself, being really and wholly present (body, soul, and divinity) under the appearance of the bread.

I was attempting to answer the posters question. Is the Trinity present within the Eucharist? I would say yes,since all 3 persons act together as One.

 

[rom422]

I was attempting to answer the posters question. Is the Trinity present within the Eucharist? I would say yes,since all 3 persons act together as One.

The three Divine Persons are present in the Eucharist, but not all in the same way. Christ is in the Eucharist physically because the Eucharist IS Christ in His human nature. We cannot say this of the Father and the Holy Spirit. Although the Father is united with Christ in divinity, we cannot say that the Father is the Eucharist or that the Eucharist is the Father. Likewise, although the Holy Spirit is one God with the Father and the Son, we cannot say that the Holy Spirit is the Eucharist or that the Eucharist is the Holy Spirit. There is a difference in their mode of presence. Christ is in the Eucharist by reason of its identification with Christ in His bodily nature. This is not the kind of presence that the Father and the Holy Spirit have in the Eucharist.

How then are the Father and the Holy Spirit present in the Holy Eucharist? They are present, not by identification, but by a mode of indwelling. It is the common teaching of the Church that the Blessed Trinity mystically dwells in the souls of the just. Since Christ is the most just of all men, we must conclude that the both the Father and the Holy Spirit dwell in Him. Christ’s body, like the bodies of all the just, is truly a temple of God. Therefore, since the Eucharist is Christ, - with His body, soul and divinity, - we must say that the Father and the Holy Spirit dwell in the Eucharist in the same way that the Blessed Trinity dwells in the souls of the just. When we receive communion, we receive Christ physically in His human substance, but we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit *mystically *by their indwelling presence.

 

[Inquiringperson]

When one receives Holy Communion, does one receive all three persons in the trinity?

 

[ruby1979]

As an extra ordinary minister of the Eucharist, I have learned that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are inseparable. When we receive Jesus in communion it is understood that we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Gorgias]

As an extra ordinary minister of the Eucharist, I have learned that the Body and Blood of Christ are truly Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They are inseparable. When we receive Jesus in communion it is understood that we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit.

After responding to your post, I noticed that there was another thread that addresses your question. Perhaps you might want to take a look there: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=747427

 

[Zekariya]

I was attempting to answer the posters question. Is the Trinity present within the Eucharist? I would say yes,since all 3 persons act together as One.

Did all three members become man? No, though they were all involved in the Incarnation.
I would say that all three members are involved in the Transubstantiation, however, Christ is the real presence in the Eucharist.

 

[Michael_Francis]

Threads on same topic merged here.

 

[rom422]

When one receives Holy Communion, does one receive all three persons in the trinity?

Yes. In receiving Holy Communion one receives Christ (God the Son) physically. But since the Father and the Holy Spirit mystically dwell in the soul of Christ, so we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit, not physically, but mystically.

It is important to know the difference between these two kinds of presence. I do not have to explain phyical presence or physical union because we are all familiar with it. When we eat food, for example, the food becomes physically present in our body. Mystical presence, on the other hand, takes place spiritually - through a conformity of wills, or a conformity of hearts. When two people love each other, for example, they become present to each other mystically. Their love makes one heart of two. Likewise, when a saint loves God, God and the saint become one - not physically - but mystically.

In Holy Communion we receive only God the Son physically. But the love of the Father and the Holy Spirit are communicated to us as well, so that we can properly say that we also receive the Father and the Holy Spirit mystically.

 

[cjforJesus]

Did all three members become man? No, though they were all involved in the Incarnation.
I would say that all three members are involved in the Transubstantiation, however, Christ is the real presence in the Eucharist.

The Father and Holy Spirit are both present in Christ. You cannot separte the hypostatic union,Christs divinity and humanity. He would not separate Himself from the Trinity just to appear solely in the Eucharist

The teachings of the Church regarding Mary as Theotokos bear witness to this,Mary did not just give birth to the humanity of Jesus she gave birth to His Divinity also.

I believe not only the writings of St Faustina but St Therese also say that the Godhead is present in the Eucharist.All the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Jesus bodily. It is a divine and sacred mystery.