Tripping

[Corki]

I witnessed a near miss regarding tripping. However, we are a small parish so everyone pretty much knows who is going to kneel and expects it. Now that virtually everyone is bowing, there is an automatice spacing that happens. If someone knelt or genuflected, it wouldn’t disrupt the line.

 

[James924]

Piety would be following the rules of the Church quietly and without calling attention to yourself.

Piety would be doing things that are pious. By what authority do you declare that people who kneel are doing it for show? By no authority at all. Stop making the accusation please.

A person who kneels or a woman who wears a veil does it to honor God and, you know what? They are absolutely aware that there are silly people like you who think they are doing it for a show. But the difference between those people and you is as follows:
They are Theocentric, that means focused on God and don’t care what “Old Medic” or any other people think.
You are Anthropocentric, focused on man and always paying attention to people kneeling in the communion line and getting angry about it.

following the rules of the Church quietly…

There is no rule of the church that says you cannot kneel, sorry.

 

[James924]

(If you think that only kneeling or genuflecting count, then you have NOT observed the Priests actions during Mass. They BOW repeatedly during the Mass.)

You’re presuming we think its ok that that changed as well. Priests used to (and my FSSP Priests still do) kneel everytime they crossed the sanctuary in front of God almighty…probably something to do with Him being God Almighty or something, I don’t know… There is nothing in any Vatican II document or in the concillium after V2 that created the new mass that requires a Priest to not kneel during mass. It was made optional.

 

[hudson]

Piety would be doing things that are pious. By what authority do you declare that people who kneel are doing it for show? By no authority at all. Stop making the accusation please.

He knows more than Pope Benedict. In the other thread he said the Pope was straight up wrong and compared his actions to the actions of the Pharisees that Jesus condemned.

 

[James924]

He knows more than Pope Benedict. In the other thread he said the Pope was straight up wrong and compared his actions to the actions of the Pharisees that Jesus condemned.

I’ll have to repeat my response from that other thread then:

Wasn’t there a clause in Vatican One’s “Pastor Aeternus” that mentioned “check with Old Medic first” or something?

 

[jmcrae]

There is no rule of the church that says you cannot kneel, sorry.

The appropriate time to kneel would be, for example, when the Pope is giving you Holy Communion, and there is a step and a kneeler set up for the purpose. This way, you are in unison with everyone else.

 

[hudson]

The appropriate time to kneel would be, for example, when the Pope is giving you Holy Communion, and there is a step and a kneeler set up for the purpose. This way, you are in unison with everyone else.

So if everyone else doesn’t bow, then you shouldn’t bow? I mean if everyone should be in unison that is the point right. Why do people get offended with showing reverence to the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ? I will never understand.

 

[jmcrae]

So if everyone else doesn’t bow, then you shouldn’t bow? I mean if everyone should be in unison that is the point right. Why do people get offended with showing reverence to the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Christ? I will never understand.

If the priest is expecting everyone to stand to receive Holy Communion, he is also expecting everyone to bow just before receiving. He is also expecting that the standing and bowing will be done with reverence. “Standing” does not mean slouching around with your hands in your pockets, or anything like that.

Keep in mind, the priest is the “boss” - he is in charge of that specific Mass - not you. “Optional” always means, optional for the priest. We do whatever the priest wants us to do - there is nothing “optional” for the lay people. When there is an option, it is the priest who picks which thing we are doing; not us.

So, normally, just do whatever he has set up for you to do, and don’t “privatize” the Mass with your own personal devotions and postures, however much more pious they may seem to you than what everyone else is doing, or what the priest has set up for you.

 

[James924]

The appropriate time to kneel would be, for example, when the Pope is giving you Holy Communion, and there is a step and a kneeler set up for the purpose. This way, you are in unison with everyone else.

This is an incorrect statement. You should correct it at your next available opportunity.

 

[James924]

If the priest is expecting everyone to stand to receive Holy Communion, he is also expecting everyone to bow just before receiving. He is also expecting that the standing and bowing will be done with reverence. “Standing” does not mean slouching around with your hands in your pockets, or anything like that.

Keep in mind, the priest is the “boss” - he is in charge of that specific Mass - not you. “Optional” always means, optional for the priest. We do whatever the priest wants us to do - there is nothing “optional” for the lay people. When there is an option, it is the priest who picks which thing we are doing; not us.

So, normally, just do whatever he has set up for you to do, and don’t “privatize” the Mass with your own personal devotions and postures, however much more pious they may seem to you than what everyone else is doing, or what the priest has set up for you.

This is an incorrect statement. You should correct it at your next available opportunity. Please refrain from making incorrect statements.

 

[jmcrae]

This is an incorrect statement. You should correct it at your next available opportunity. Please refrain from making incorrect statements.

There is nothing “incorrect” about it. Obedience is a virtue - one that, it seems, very few people are willing to exercise.

Obedience to our priests is especially virtuous.

 

[James924]

Obedience to our priests is especially virtuous.

Please cite the instances of Priests forbidding their parishoners to kneel. Otherwise, please refrain from making incorrect statements (i.e. making up your own Church laws).

 

[jmcrae]

Please cite the instances of Priests forbidding their parishoners to kneel. Otherwise, please refrain from making incorrect statements (i.e. making up your own Church laws).

They don’t “forbid” it in the sense of telling you, “Okay, today we are standing,” or “Okay, today we are kneeling.” They set it up in one of two ways: for kneeling (ie: a Communion rail or kneeling bench for the people to kneel on as they approach) or they set it up for reception by standing (ie: nothing there for you to kneel on, and no space set aside for this).

Because the Pope expects people to kneel, he sets up a kneeling bench so that people can do this.

How they set it up is how you can tell what they are expecting you to do.

I hope that makes sense to you.

 

[James924]

They don’t “forbid” it in the sense of telling you, “Okay, today we are standing,” or “Okay, today we are kneeling.” They set it up in one of two ways: for kneeling (ie: a Communion rail or kneeling bench for the people to kneel on as they approach) or they set it up for reception by standing (ie: nothing there for you to kneel on, and no space set aside for this).

Because the Pope expects people to kneel, he sets up a kneeling bench so that people can do this.

How they set it up is how you can tell what they are expecting you to do.

I hope that makes sense to you.

You have made two claims.

1. That a lack of a kneeler makes kneeling disobedient.

and

1. That Catholics who kneel before the God of the Universe when no kneeler is present are being disobedient.

Both claims are incorrect.

If you cannot find a church document stating A) "parishes can forbid kneeling at communion and B) the method for communicating this forbidding is to ensure kneelers are not present at communion, or C) that Catholics who kneel are being disobedient then by all means produce it. Otherwise, please stop making up church laws that you know don’t exist. At first I think you were mistaken. Now it seems like you’re obstinantly and purposely making stuff up, perhaps out of hurt pride. Please stop. Its not helping anyone here.

 

[jmcrae]

You have made two claims.

1. That a lack of a kneeler makes kneeling disobedient.

and

1. That Catholics who kneel before the God of the Universe when no kneeler is present are being disobedient.

Both claims are incorrect.

If you cannot find a church document stating A) "parishes can forbid kneeling at communion and B) the method for communicating this forbidding is to ensure kneelers are not present at communion, or C) that Catholics who kneel are being disobedient then by all means produce it. Otherwise, please stop making up church laws that you know don’t exist. At first I think you were mistaken. Now it seems like you’re obstinantly and purposely making stuff up, perhaps out of hurt pride. Please stop. Its not helping anyone here.

Look, my point is, just do what they do at your parish, without having to be “different” or “special.” I have never said that “it is forbidden” at the current Mass. It isn’t.

I was told by someone who is supposed to be an expert (my Liturgy instructor) that it will be forbidden as of November 29th, 2011, but apparently that isn’t going to happen. My teacher was incorrect, or else I misunderstood him.

The norm in Canada is that we are to stand, and this has been mandated by the Bishops.

Again, no one will yell at you in the middle of Mass, but standing is, in fact, preferred in this part of the world.

 

[hudson]

Not much of an expert. It will actually become easier to kneel now that they are taking out the line about catechizing individuals that do it. I didn’t realize that people that kneel only do it to feel special and not to show the most reverence they can offer. Learn something new everyday.

 

[Phemie]

There is nothing “incorrect” about it. Obedience is a virtue - one that, it seems, very few people are willing to exercise.

Obedience to our priests is especially virtuous.

Rome has already said that nobody who kneels for Communion is to be considered disobedient.

 

[Phemie]

There is absolutely NO excuse to suddenly, without warning, drop to your knees in a crowd of people. You show no special respect for the sacrament at all by doing this. (If you think that only kneeling or genuflecting count, then you have NOT observed the Priests actions during Mass. They BOW repeatedly during the Mass.)

If the priests don’t genuflect at least 3 times during Mass they are doing their own thing and ignoring the rubrics. That’s not something to hold up as an example.

 

[MarcusAndreas]

To those who say kneeling is going to be outlawed:
Father Z:

Fideles communicant genuflexi vel stantes, prout Conferentia Episcoporum statuerit. Cum autem stantes communicant, commendatur ut debitam reverentiam, ab iisdem normis statuendam, ante susceptionem Sacramenti faciant.
…
The norm established for the Dioceses of the United States of America is that Holy Communion is to be received standing, unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling

This is the new GIRM coming along with the new translation.

 

[MarkThompson]

To those who say kneeling is going to be outlawed:

This is the new GIRM coming along with the new translation.

That English is not a translation of the that Latin. The Latin you posted says:
The faithful communicate kneeling or standing, as the Conference of Bishops shall have established. When, however, they communicate standing, it is urged that they make a due sign of reverence, to be established in the same norms.
This – the Latin passage – is the basic, normative text for this provision in the GIRM. The English passage quoted is the American adaptation which, by approval of the Holy See, replaces it for the United States.