Troubled by Matthew 7:13

[hu324b]

The narrow gate is following Jesus and living by the laws of God - the wide gate is following the ways of the world and living to the laws of man especially in this day and age with abortion , euthanasia, lax moral values that are out of line with the bible. So which gate are you trying to enter by? Its a good question to ask ourselves as Catholics - I am not asking anyone to actually answer the question but its something to think about.

 

[mikekle]

The narrow gate is following Jesus and living by the laws of God - the wide gate is following the ways of the world and living to the laws of man especially in this day and age with abortion , euthanasia, lax moral values that are out of line with the bible. So which gate are you trying to enter by? Its a good question to ask ourselves as Catholics - I am not asking anyone to actually answer the question but its something to think about.

The problem today is many christians want to justify enjoying the best of both worlds…they go to mass once a week for an hour, but at the same time, they want a comfortable secular life too, free from any persecution or suffering as a result of their beliefs.

 

[adamhovey1988]

this is from the Douay-Rheims version of the Bible and this is Matthew 7:14. How narrow is the gate and Strait is the way that leadeth to life; and few there are that find it! if vs 13 makes you kind of uneasy verse 14 should make you really uneasy. My suggestion is read the whole chapter especially since it tells you how to avoid going into the broad gate. I don’t think Jesus would leave us with these words of his unless he was legitimately worried that there was a chance we would not follow him. it is up to you as a Christian to live by Jesus’s words and to tell people about Jesus . I don’t think everyone will be saved and I am very glad that I am not the judge and that God is.

 

[JimB4]

catholic.org/bible/book.php?bible_chapter=7&id=47

“Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” - Matthew 7:13

This one line in the bible (or at least, the way I always see it being interpreted) has always bothered me because of the great deal of cognitive dissonance it causes in me.

The main reason I worship God is not because he is all-powerful, but because he is all-loving. Indeed there are numerous verses in the bible that talk about how loving and compassionate God is, about how he was so compassionate that he died to forgive our sins, about how no matter how much we sin and how horrible our sins God will never stop loving us and about how he will welcome us back with open arms the moment we repent (sinners are compared to Lost Sheep and Runaway Sons).

God’s love gives me hope: the world is a cruel place. It is a place full of remorseless monsters who go their whole lives without being punished for their cruelties and of innocent people who suffer and die unduly.
In the face of this, I have always taken comfort in the knowledge of God’s Love. The idea that no matter how unfair the world or life might be, God IS fair and will not damn the innocent or the repentant.

Then a lot of Christians on The Internet claim that the vast majority of humans on earth go to Hell, and cite Matthew 7:13 as evidence of this. If God loves every human being, than why would he stack the cards against us? Matthew 7:13 makes it seem like God doesn’t even want us to go to Heaven.

I do not see how it can be possible for a world ruled by a all-loving God to also be a world in which 8 out of every 10 humans (or even a majority of humans) go to Hell. To be honest the very idea makes me sick, and even now I can not hear or read a reference to “The Narrow Path” in a Christian Context without feeling a little disgusted.

Does Matthew 7:13 mean something else? Are there any other possible interpretations?

Because the idea of more humans going to hell than to heaven is one that I can not reconcile with the idea of an All-Loving God.

In reading through this thread, there is so much that comes to mind from my own experiences, and reflections, that dispels some of the thoughts of the original Post… one of them being, quote- -”Then a lot of Christians on The Internet claim that the vast majority of humans on earth go to Hell, and cite Matthew 7:13 as evidence of this."

The only person who would truly know that, is a person who has been to Hell, and then came back… and there is no person on Earth who has done that. Please pay no attention to people on the internet who trouble the mind, no matter how well-intentioned they may be.

In Matthew 11:28-30, it is written … **“Come to me, all you who labor and are burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am meek and humble of heart; and you will find rest for yourselves. For my yoke is easy, and my burden light.” **

I remember at a Retreat that I had attended in the past, where one of the priest-speakers put the road to Heaven in very simplistic terms…… if a person was driving their car, and there were only two directions to go… North, being on the road to Heaven, and South being on the road to Hell… it is a matter of choice as to which destination the person follows. There may be obstacles, or detours on the road North, but as long as we keep our eyes fixed on Jesus, and follow Him, we will be with Him.

There are times when a person may wonder why there seems to be so much endless suffering in their life, and their prayers seem to go unanswered. Years ago, I remember watching my sister doing a Cross-Stitch picture, (somewhat similar to Needlepoint)…. she was tying off the threads on the back, and as I watched, I saw all the threads on the back going every which way, and making no sense at all. In the many, many years in which was I going through much suffering, on that day, I remember saying to myself as I watched her, “This is what my life is like"… seeming to making no sense, and having no purpose. But shortly thereafter, while in prayer, it came to me, that although the “threads” of my life seemed to be in such disarray, it is not until I enter Heaven, that I am able to see the **front **of the Cross-Stitch, and what a beautiful picture my life was…. where every wayward thread on the back, had a definite purpose for the front to complete the picture.

 

[psalm90]

I worry about this too. I won’t go into it here because I’ve posted about it so much but it concerns me greatly where my son is. He was a really good person. I don’t believe at all that I’m saying that just because I’m his mom. He would do anything to help someone. He loved everyone except maybe a couple of people he didn’t really like. He was loving and caring and a baptized Catholic but stopped going to church in his teens. Hadn’t confessed in years. Four months before he died he said he didn’t believe in God anymore because he couldn’t understand how God could let people, like him, hurt and suffer so much. I believed he was just speaking from his pain and I believed we had time to work this out. But then in the hospital when they told me my son was going to die, I asked him if he wanted to speak to a priest and he said yes. The hospital chaplain had just left that day for a two-week vacation. I asked the nurses desk to help us find the priest who was going to replace him. They said they couldn’t find another priest. So I told my son I would find a priest for him in the morning if that was ok and he, again, said YES. But he died that night.

My point is that he was a very good and loving person who was indeed a sinner like many of us are. I sure am. So I worry about how God would judge someone like that. If so many end up in hell, could it be those who are really good and loving people? Would he send people like my son to be mixed in with the murderers, etc., in hell? Does God make that wide and spacious road to hell for good people who are human and can’t live up to the greatness of God because of reasons they can’t control? I have problems with that if it is so. The God I love and worship is loving, forgiving, merciful, and understanding of our very souls, as well as judge. It will be three years, this coming January 18, that my son died and I still grieve for my son. More than ever. And I will till the day I die and we are together again. That’s what I live for now.

I pray he got to go through that narrow gate because he sure traveled a hard road in his lifetime.

As I look back at my relatives who have passed away, they all suffered before they died. Did you read about the celebrity who had a cardiac arrest on a jet airliner and having to have CPR. I expect to suffer, because Jesus said that as his disciples, we would suffer throughout our lives and very well until we die.

I suffer a lot in social relationships. Last evening I went to church for the Christmas Eve Mass. The church was packed. I sat in the last pew, but all the adults around me were coughing, a couple like they had pneumonia or the flu ( a productive cough). I didn’t shake any hands, but I woke up sick this morning, I don’t know what I will develop.
Suffering will come our way, expect it.

We are all challenged by suffering, including spiritual suffering. I just attended a study of the gospel of John (from Ascension Press) and it highlighted how before God gives us a command, he gives us the means to comply with the command – the command to be holy.

Ephesians 1:3 tells us “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavens.”

What I think St Paul is telling us is that in our faith, we have to persevere in our “walk” with Christ and have faith that Christ leads us to that narrow gate. I’m looking for that gate and I’m trying to follow Jesus, as imperfect as I am, to that gate. We have to ask for God’s help to use those spiritual graces whatever comes our way. Just because I said that, I expect to have something “come my way” today.

The other example we have is when Jesus and the disciples got in the boat to cross the sea, and the storm came up. Jesus was sleeping. They awakened him, terrified because of being tossed by the storm. And his message to them was to have faith and live by it.

We will have “storms” in our life.

 

[abucs]

Hello BornInMarch,

just random thoughts - perhaps Jesus is talking about a peaceful, happy and spiritually rewarding life here on earth and where our relationship with God and his gifts to us would facilitate this. The destruction (in our best laid plans here on earth) would be because we are too caught up in our material wants that we do not ask for the correct things from God.

Perhaps the destruction of taking the wide gate refers to the desired life we would wish here and it’s failure to make us truly happy. Perhaps the passage doesn’t correspond to hell at all, but instead refers to a lack of spiritual happiness here on earth.

In opposition to this if we ask for the correct gifts from God and do not dwell on material things then we will have a truly spiritually rewarding life.

Perhaps Jesus was not talking about Salvation in this passage but choosing a spiritual life through our wise prayers to God rather than asking for material things which ultimately lead to a futile destruction in this life (rather than the next).

My :twocents:

 

[TK421]

catholic.org/bible/book.php?bible_chapter=7&id=47

“Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” - Matthew 7:13

This one line in the bible (or at least, the way I always see it being interpreted) has always bothered me because of the great deal of cognitive dissonance it causes in me.

The main reason I worship God is not because he is all-powerful, but because he is all-loving. Indeed there are numerous verses in the bible that talk about how loving and compassionate God is, about how he was so compassionate that he died to forgive our sins, about how no matter how much we sin and how horrible our sins God will never stop loving us and about how he will welcome us back with open arms the moment we repent (sinners are compared to Lost Sheep and Runaway Sons).

God’s love gives me hope: the world is a cruel place. It is a place full of remorseless monsters who go their whole lives without being punished for their cruelties and of innocent people who suffer and die unduly.
In the face of this, I have always taken comfort in the knowledge of God’s Love. The idea that no matter how unfair the world or life might be, God IS fair and will not damn the innocent or the repentant.

Then a lot of Christians on The Internet claim that the vast majority of humans on earth go to Hell, and cite Matthew 7:13 as evidence of this. If God loves every human being, than why would he stack the cards against us? Matthew 7:13 makes it seem like God doesn’t even want us to go to Heaven.

I do not see how it can be possible for a world ruled by a all-loving God to also be a world in which 8 out of every 10 humans (or even a majority of humans) go to Hell. To be honest the very idea makes me sick, and even now I can not hear or read a reference to “The Narrow Path” in a Christian Context without feeling a little disgusted.

Does Matthew 7:13 mean something else? Are there any other possible interpretations?

Because the idea of more humans going to hell than to heaven is one that I can not reconcile with the idea of an All-Loving God.

In “Crossing the Threshold of Hope” Pope St JP2 says that the number saved is ultimately a great mystery. Historically it has always been the belief that the great number of souls on Earth were damned, though take into account two major historical beliefs:

• It was widely believed that the unbaptized infants and unbaptized pagans were always damned (though St Augustine believed that though infants went to “hell” on account of original sin, their status would be such that it would not be unpleasant for them. They would more or less just be removed from the Beatific Vision)

The reason many Popes and theologians no longer explicitly believe that the great majority are damned is because Jesus may be speaking as a father rather than a statistician. I. E. To lose one sheep is far too many and to keep 99 is far too few. But again, there is no doctrine concerning how many are saved and how many are damned.

For one to believe that all are saved, there would be an enormous volume of private revelation from canonized mystics that you would need to disregard, including the apparition of Our Lady of Fatima. I would personally not dare venture into such a thought.

St Ignatius approached it another way (paraphrasing) :

If among a crowd of 100, there are 99 damned and 1 that is saved, and if you avail yourself of the sacraments and honor all that God has taught you and earnestly seek forgiveness of sins, then you will be that 1 person who is saved. And if among a crowd of 100, there are 99 who are saved and only 1 who is damned, and if you do not avail the sacraments or honor what God has taught you or seek his forgiveness, then you will be that 1 person who is damned.

 

[Techno2000]

After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands;

Revelation 7:9

 

[fred_conty]

catholic.org/bible/book.php?bible_chapter=7&id=47

“Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” - Matthew 7:13

This one line in the bible (or at least, the way I always see it being interpreted) has always bothered me because of the great deal of cognitive dissonance it causes in me.

The main reason I worship God is not because he is all-powerful, but because he is all-loving. Indeed there are numerous verses in the bible that talk about how loving and compassionate God is, about how he was so compassionate that he died to forgive our sins, about how no matter how much we sin and how horrible our sins God will never stop loving us and about how he will welcome us back with open arms the moment we repent (sinners are compared to Lost Sheep and Runaway Sons).

God’s love gives me hope: the world is a cruel place. It is a place full of remorseless monsters who go their whole lives without being punished for their cruelties and of innocent people who suffer and die unduly.
In the face of this, I have always taken comfort in the knowledge of God’s Love. The idea that no matter how unfair the world or life might be, God IS fair and will not damn the innocent or the repentant.

Then a lot of Christians on The Internet claim that the vast majority of humans on earth go to Hell, and cite Matthew 7:13 as evidence of this. If God loves every human being, than why would he stack the cards against us? Matthew 7:13 makes it seem like God doesn’t even want us to go to Heaven.

I do not see how it can be possible for a world ruled by a all-loving God to also be a world in which 8 out of every 10 humans (or even a majority of humans) go to Hell. To be honest the very idea makes me sick, and even now I can not hear or read a reference to “The Narrow Path” in a Christian Context without feeling a little disgusted.

Does Matthew 7:13 mean something else? Are there any other possible interpretations?

Because the idea of more humans going to hell than to heaven is one that I can not reconcile with the idea of an All-Loving God.

There are approximately 7 billion people today, 2 billion of which are Christian.
This leaves 5 billion in the dark. Mathew says, “…and only a few find it”, meaning Jesus’ way. And of the 2 billion Christians, how many of them after finding his way follow it?

So wouldn’t it be true that “the road(or way) that leads to distruction is wide and spacious and many take it…” is just saying the obvious?

 

[goout]

Speculation is the tool of the devil. It causes fear and anxiety and scandal.

No one, not even the Church, claims to know who exactly and how many are in hell. The Church does not canonize the damned.

If we were meant to have this information, we would likely have it. If it is not given to us, perhaps we should not wish for it or pretend to have it. Wishing for knowledge and things that are not proper to you is a bad thing. There are just some apples we are not meant to eat. Our Lord knows what it is we can handle, and what we cannot handle.

St John of the Cross has a perspective on the “narrowness of the door”. It has to do with packing on spiritual riches such that we are too spiritually fattened to fit through the door.

Also, scripture is always read in context. This is the context immediately before:

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8“For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 9“Or what man is there among you who, when his son asks for a loaf, will give him a stone? 10“Or if he asks for a fish, he will not give him a snake, will he? 11“If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!

  12“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

And after:

15“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17“So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“So then, you will know them by their fruits.

  21“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22“Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

 

[Techno2000]

catholic.org/bible/book.php?bible_chapter=7&id=47

“Enter by the narrow gate, since the road that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” - Matthew 7:13

This one line in the bible (or at least, the way I always see it being interpreted) has always bothered me because of the great deal of cognitive dissonance it causes in me.

The main reason I worship God is not because he is all-powerful, but because he is all-loving. Indeed there are numerous verses in the bible that talk about how loving and compassionate God is, about how he was so compassionate that he died to forgive our sins, about how no matter how much we sin and how horrible our sins God will never stop loving us and about how he will welcome us back with open arms the moment we repent (sinners are compared to Lost Sheep and Runaway Sons).

God’s love gives me hope: the world is a cruel place. It is a place full of remorseless monsters who go their whole lives without being punished for their cruelties and of innocent people who suffer and die unduly.
In the face of this, I have always taken comfort in the knowledge of God’s Love. The idea that no matter how unfair the world or life might be, God IS fair and will not damn the innocent or the repentant.

Then a lot of Christians on The Internet claim that the vast majority of humans on earth go to Hell, and cite Matthew 7:13 as evidence of this. If God loves every human being, than why would he stack the cards against us? Matthew 7:13 makes it seem like God doesn’t even want us to go to Heaven.

I do not see how it can be possible for a world ruled by a all-loving God to also be a world in which 8 out of every 10 humans (or even a majority of humans) go to Hell. To be honest the very idea makes me sick, and even now I can not hear or read a reference to “The Narrow Path” in a Christian Context without feeling a little disgusted.

Does Matthew 7:13 mean something else? Are there any other possible interpretations?

Because the idea of more humans going to hell than to heaven is one that I can not reconcile with the idea of an All-Loving God.

I remember reading some Private Revelation where the Virgin Mary told someone that most people go to Purgatory, the next amount go to Hell,and the last few go straight Heaven.

 

[BenjaminJ]

catholic.org/bible/book.php?bible_chapter=7&id=47

"

Then a lot of Christians on The Internet claim that the vast majority of humans on earth go to Hell, and cite Matthew 7:13 as evidence of this. If God loves every human being, than why would he stack the cards against us? Matthew 7:13 makes it seem like God doesn’t even want us to go to Heaven.

God doesnt stack the cards against us. It our own choice, our own decisions, and how we live that decides whether we can enter the Gates. What Jesus was saying is that not many will choose to live a life that will grant them entry.

 

[mikekle]

There are approximately 7 billion people today, 2 billion of which are Christian.
This leaves 5 billion in the dark. Mathew says, “…and only a few find it”, meaning Jesus’ way. And of the 2 billion Christians, how many of them after finding his way follow it?

And that is only the figure of people currently living, imagine every person that has ever lived…Im assuming that number would be somewhere in the trillions or more!

I can never understand how the saying of ‘the gates of hell will not prevail’, but at the same time, saying many if not most will not achieve heaven…well, that alone seems to indicate hell has succeeded, if more people willingly reject God (directly or indirectly), than those that choose him and choose to live by his rules, how is that successful…it means more people have chosen the other side.

 

[fred_conty]

And that is only the figure of people currently living, imagine every person that has ever lived…Im assuming that number would be somewhere in the trillions or more!

I can never understand how the saying of ‘the gates of hell will not prevail’, but at the same time, saying many if not most will not achieve heaven…well, that alone seems to indicate hell has succeeded, if more people willingly reject God (directly or indirectly), than those that choose him and choose to live by his rules, how is that successful…it means more people have chosen the other side.

“the gates of hell will not prevail” means that the Church Jesus established will always exist in the world until the end of the world. Where the church is, that is where Jesus is. The church may become smaller in numbers of people, but it will never be destroyed.

Now there are a few who do believe that noone will go to hell. I personally do not see how that can be maintained because of Matthew 7;13 and other statements in the NT referring to Hell. And indeed, hell is spoken about more than heaven. So if noone is going to hell, then why is so much attention given to it?

If it weren’t for Matthew 7;13 and a couple of more like it, I believe I would also think that most people will go to heaven and only a very few go to hell. But just looking at 7;13, that would be a contradiction which I have never heard a response to. All that I have ever heard are statements with no logic or proof to explain 7;13 why it doesn’t mean what it says. There have been attempts to soften this passage by way of good will, both ours and God’s. But what it says is what it says.

This is the reason why all good christians need desperately to pray especially for their beloved brothers/sisters in Christ, and also pray for the whole world. Which is expressed in the divine mercy chaplet.

 

[TK421]

I remember reading some Private Revelation where the Virgin Mary told someone that most people go to Purgatory, the next amount go to Hell,and the last few go straight Heaven.

Do you know the source of this private revelation?

 

[o_mlly]

…]
Does Matthew 7:13 mean something else? Are there any other possible interpretations?

Because the idea of more humans going to hell than to heaven is one that I can not reconcile with the idea of an All-Loving God.

Reflect on 1 Tim 2:4 as well.

 

[Techno2000]

Do you know the source of this private revelation?

I think it was some stuff from Medjugorje, and I thought that sounded reasonable for a God that was supposed to be so merciful.

 

[TK421]

I think it was some stuff from Medjugorje, and I thought that sounded reasonable for a God that was supposed to be so merciful.

Those apparitions are not approved.

In my opinion, ‘reasonable’ is an odd way of approaching the question, since salvation is the reception of divine grace through the use of free will. It is something that God does not have control over., in spite of his omnipotence, which in this case has been forfeited.

Being damned is unreasonable but this is the act of the soul. According to private revelation, the banishment to hell is in itself merciful because a soul that has perpetually rescinded grace would be even more tormented in the direct presence of God than they would in the distant place they dwell. The damned have a severe repulsion to everything that is holy. Although even in their distant place - where their torment is decreased - the torment they suffer makes the worst earthly suffering appear trifling. Being consumed in an earthly fire is, according to St Padre Pio, being immersed in fresh water compared to the fire beyond.

 

[fred_conty]

I think it was some stuff from Medjugorje, and I thought that sounded reasonable for a God that was supposed to be so merciful.

“merciful” describes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, perfectly. But when mercy is exorcised, it is up to the person offered mercy to either accept it or reject it, for God will not force it upon anyone because of their freedom.

As is the case of the shepherds at Bethlehem who came to see and behold, while king Herod came to kill and slaughter. The evil person sees evil as good and good as evil. And so when mercy is offered, this good is seen as evil and rejected.

Mercy is what removes evil from one’s life by seeing evil for what it is and rejecting that evil. Without this correction to identify evil for what it is, the person will continue in their darkness, and mercy cannot take place. For when evil is seen as evil, then mercy can be shown to others as well as oneself. Else there will be no mercy shown to others and thereby there will be no mercy shown to us.

We are shown mercy(forgiveness) in the proportion as we show mercy(forgiveness) to others, including God. For instance, someone is being tailgated on the highway. The thought rushing to the driver is revenge and hatred. Thoughts may be clicking thru the mind of a way to get even. This is certainly not mercy. Yet we expect God to show mercy to us. Stories of this kind could be told a hundred times over. And I would like to stress God is three persons, and therefore God should be shown kindness and mercy threefold and not criticized but rather given our whole heart.

I feel that 7;13 is what it is because of man’s evil and not because of God’s lack of mercy.

 

[Techno2000]

Those apparitions are not approved.

In my opinion, ‘reasonable’ is an odd way of approaching the question, since salvation is the reception of divine grace through the use of free will. It is something that God does not have control over., in spite of his omnipotence, which in this case has been forfeited.

Being damned is unreasonable but this is the act of the soul. According to private revelation, the banishment to hell is in itself merciful because a soul that has perpetually rescinded grace would be even more tormented in the direct presence of God than they would in the distant place they dwell. The damned have a severe repulsion to everything that is holy. Although even in their distant place - where their torment is decreased - the torment they suffer makes the worst earthly suffering appear trifling. Being consumed in an earthly fire is, according to St Padre Pio, being immersed in fresh water compared to the fire beyond.

Then it’s true BornInMarch should be troubled by Matthew 7:13.