True Religion And Progressivism Cannot Co-Exist

[Victoria33]

Fine, nobody doubts he was born that. Also, I don’t call this other “speculation”. Again, I could just label what you are saying as “Bernie filling out the papers”, nobody denies he was born as that.

Please do not label what I say as “speculation” in this case. Go ahead and think what you want.

 

[upant]

“The progressive” (which, as far as I can tell, just means somone whose political opinions don’t match yours, but I’ll let that pass for now) believes that we must do what Jesus commands, of course, and we can take guidance from centuries of Church teaching and explanation of God’s commands. And we believe government is sometimes a useful tool for doing that.

I can understand having progressive ideas (even i do) but i cannot understand a catholic following the secular progressive movement.

how do you justify the harm the progressive movement is doing to God’s law: to God’s people.

how many people are falling away into a progressive lifestyle completely at odds with God’s word? i don’t mean your idea of progressivism but the one taught on the campus today. have you walked a catholic college lately? i did. I saw more gay imagery than the cross. there was even a pro-abortion rally poster. in fact, a secular person asked me if this was still a catholic college!

let’s face it no one is commenting on the anti-God elements of the progressive movement (abortion, contraception, transgender issues, homosexual acts, same-sex marriage, and overall being anti-main street religion).

you can try and justify the murder of 42 million children worldwide by abortion in 2018 but i can’t.

no one has given me a reason any political issue is more important than 42 million kids sacrificed.

someone, please try.

 

[Inisfallen]

let’s face it no one is commenting on the anti-God elements of the progressive movement (abortion, contraception, transgender issues, homosexual acts, same-sex marriage, and overall being anti-main street religion).

No one? People comment on it all the time here at CAF. Every day.

you can try and justify the murder of 42 million children worldwide by abortion in 2018 but i can’t.

I don’t try to justify that at all. I certainly haven’t here.

no one has given me a reason any political issue is more important than 42 million kids sacrificed.

Because there isn’t one, and those of us Cathlolics here whom you identify as “progressives” have not claimed that there is. But we also don’t believe that discussion of every other issue on the table must be suspended until abortion is outlawed in the United States. For one thing, some of us don’t believe that will ever happen. For another, we can certainly work towards many pro-life goals simultaneously. We don’t have to focus only on the one. There’s no reason why that would be necessary.

 

[TheLittleLady]

“Speculation” is coming to a conclusion in the absence of facts. Until Mr Sanders retracts his published religious status, anything to the contrary is speculation.

I’m speculating that you are not going to be happy with my use of the word, I could be wrong.

Muting this tread now.

 

[upant]

I think that people who want a Christian government should support the government doing what Christ commanded.

even if it pushes people away from the church because of the other items it mandates (contraception, abortion, ssm, etc)?

do you agree with the pro-gay, pro-transgender, agendas being pushed in schools? is this how you want your tax money spent.

 

[Victoria33]

I see a number of Jews indicate he is not Jewish. So, unless, you are Jewish, I will believe what they say instead of your speculation.

Opinion | Bernie Sanders Isn’t Just Another White Male Candidate. His Nomination Would Be Historic.

In a country where “Jewish” is often taken to be a strictly religious label, Sanders is an ethnic Jew, a cultural Jew, and a left-wing Jew.

forward.com

 

[Inisfallen]

I see a number of Jews indicate he is not Jewish. So, unless, you are Jewish, I will believe what they say instead of your speculation.

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Or, if I am understanding what you’re saying, then I’m confused. The article to which you link affirms that Sanders is Jewish.

 

[upant]

But we also don’t believe that discussion of every other issue on the table must be suspended until abortion is outlawed in the United States. For one thing, some of us don’t believe that will ever happen. For another, we can certainly work towards many pro-life goals simultaneously. We don’t have to focus only on the one. There’s no reason why that would be necessary.

i agree abortion will never be outlawed but that is not a reason that it shouldn’t be fought and limited. we will one day see it as another acceptable form of contraception (if we don’t already).

i agree also that every other issue should not be tabled. we both agree we need a solution for the poor, homeless, etc. the devil is in the how to achieve a solution. throwing tax money at the issue has not worked but we continue to just want to throw more money at it or let the inept government handle it.

but along with these noble ideas come a torrent of anti-God rules. these are no longer palatable.

No one? People comment on it all the time here at CAF. Every day.

so how are they acceptable to the degree you support the party pushing them?

 

[Inisfallen]

so how are they acceptable to the degree you support the party pushing them?

I’m sorry? Where have I indicated support for those issues? That said, the other party pushes so many ideas that I find unacceptable that I kind of have to choose the lesser of two evils. Just as you do sometimes, I expect.

If you feel like spending some time going through my posts over the years here at CAF, you’ll see that I have been fairly critical, fairly often, of the Democratic Party.

 

[Victoria33]

I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying. Or, if I am understanding what you’re saying, then I’m confused. The article to which you link affirms that Sanders is Jewish.

I’m not sure if I agree with that assessment. The article indicates his Jewishness is problematic to some. Now, if all we are looking for is someone who questions Bernie on this aspect:

Bernie Sanders is NOT a Jew

When Bernie needs views on Jewish/Israel topics he calls anti-Semites or anti-Israel "leaders"

www.jewishpress.com

I read a number of articles, I chose one originally, that was more in the middle.

Anyway, Bernie is a big pro-choicer, he has compassion on some issues but is probably an extremist on that one. I could not vote for him unless he changed his tone. That’s the bottom line, so I’m done on talking about Bernie.

 

[Kaninchen]

Well, on the one hand, meanwhile on the other hand, while on yet another hand altogether . . .



I’ve always had a rule, shabbat starts when I’m ready, it finishes when I say so. I could drive the frum crazy.

 

[DENNYINMI]

i agree also that every other issue should not be tabled. we both agree we need a solution for the poor, homeless, etc. the devil is in the how to achieve a solution. throwing tax money at the issue has not worked but we continue to just want to throw more money at it or let the inept government handle it.

I have a small comment, if I may enter into the conversation.

How does the same party that calls for government intervention in the area of decisions that are conscientiously moral in nature do so when they consistently repeat this same government is inept?

How exactly would that work when the definition of inept is having or showing no skill?

This idea that somehow progressives are supporting abortion when they support a progressive Politian is inept.

HOW does the stampede of the anti-abortion crowds love an infant whom they cannot see, yet made in the Image and Likeness of God, when they do not appear to love the child whom they can see?

Doesn’t the image of the child drowning victim taken on a beach in Greece after attempting to flee the death fields of a war zone break your heart or touch you in any way?

Or the deaths and faces of Syrian children as their hospitals are bombed? Yet we can stand on the righteousness we believe we have by way of inherent rights bestowed on us by God boasting we are citizens of the United States, while simultaneously unwilling to allow the safety of our shores to others.

Abortion has taken on the dirt of the political system within argumentative rhetoric, and many of us will not be fooled into this false righteousness. Shame on the right wing factions that do this!~

If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen

How do certain factions stand on the grounds of love for persons they do not see, when they do not demonstrate the love for those they do?

 

[sallybutler]

No. But I also don’t want many of the Protestant ideas pushed, such as the bible above all things, predestination, the Pope is … (Insert your favorite anti-pope meme), anti-Marian tropes, etc. Why do you think the Catholic school system was started? It was to combat the anti-Catholic religious teachings in the public schools.

 

[upant]

Where have I indicated support for those issues?

notice i said, acceptable to a degree, if they were totally unacceptable, would you vote for the person holding those views?

you don’t just get what you agree with but the entire package, you get the pro-abortion with what you see as the answer to the other issues

your vote still helps the pro-abortion cause.

 

[upant]

I have a small comment, if I may enter into the conversation.

absolutely

How does the same party that calls for government intervention in the area of decisions that are conscientiously moral in nature do so when they consistently repeat this same government is inept?

depends on what you mean by government intervention

the government intervened by legalizing abortion (abortion is murder, it is wrong morally)

i want the government to fix the law

This idea that somehow progressives are supporting abortion when they support a progressive Politian is inept.

if your candidate did not win, the politician could not push a pro-abortion agenda. the voter is responsible, you get the entire agenda not just what you agree with.

HOW does the stampede of the anti-abortion crowds love an infant whom they cannot see, yet made in the Image and Likeness of God, when they do not appear to love the child whom they can see?

the key words are “appear to”, we have different ideas on how to care for the poor etc. the progressive way has not worked and is making it worse.

Walter E Williams said

The most devastating problems that black people face today have absolutely nothing to do with our history of slavery and discrimination. Chief among them is the breakdown of the black family, wherein 75 percent of blacks are born to single, often young, mothers.

Welfare has encouraged young women to have children out of wedlock. The social stigma once associated with unwed pregnancy is all but gone.
The Worst Enemy of Black People – Walter E. Williams

if we followed catholic teaching on sex, would we see this statistic? would we see the number of abortions we do?

Doesn’t the image of the child drowning victim taken on a beach in Greece after attempting to flee the death fields of a war zone break your heart or touch you in any way?

yes, it does. why didn’t the family stop in the first safe haven? why aren’t the surrounding safe countries accepting them? why are the refugees fleeing south america not stopping in mexico? it is a safe haven.

Yet we can stand on the righteousness we believe we have by way of inherent rights bestowed on us by God boasting we are citizens of the United States, while simultaneously unwilling to allow the safety of our shores to others.

unwilling to allow them illegally in, there is a difference

How do certain factions stand on the grounds of love for persons they do not see, when they do not demonstrate the love for those they do?

is the progressive way the only way to solve issues? it hasn’t worked. it is time for a change. the laws need to be changed to fix the issue.

 

[DENNYINMI]

is the progressive way the only way to solve issues? it hasn’t worked. it is time for a change. the laws need to be changed to fix the issue.

In your above post you’ve proposed a conservative economics, legislation, and agenda are a better solution for the most vulnerable. Where have we seen this agenda before, surely it wouldn’t be anything we haven’t seen in action. Lets review some of it in details:

The battle cry of “free trade” and the desire for “unregulated capitalism” lending to the type of market we call a “trickle down economics.”

Our Church has recognized the above folly and alleviates the attempt on my part to articulate it better, and so I offer the following Truth… “The promise was that when the glass was full, it would overflow, benefiting the poor," Francis said. "What happens instead is that when the glass is full, it magically gets bigger, but nothing ever comes out for the poor.”

Mother Church in it’s wisdom has recognized not only income inequality, but asset inequality.

The right wing conservative mantra offers a “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” mentality, but doesn’t stop to answer the question if someone has the bootstraps in which to do it. Free education? Health care? The most basic and fundamental bootstraps yet looked upon as some slippery slope to avoid. I can think of no other reason other than it may insist upon a progressive taxation where the CEO would pay more in taxes than the janitor, God Forbid!~

I fail to see historically where the right wing agenda has been progressive in moving the most vulnerable out of any dire straight.

But, due to its wonder greed creed it can be attributed to bringing us some of the most enlightening encyclicals that shed light on the woes of greed, ambition, income inequality, unfair labor practices, and the plight of laborers who are not given the “right to organize”.

Once again, do you really see their faces? Or are they only found in the womb of the conservative agenda which hasn’t born any life as of yet?

 

[Ridgerunner]

And yet, he taught us how to live in this world. The parable of the Good Samaritan isn’t set in Heaven. He didn’t say “love your neighbor when you get to Heaven.”
The Beatitudes are about living in this world.

Where did He say Caesar should force everybody to be a Good Samaritan by increasing their taxes and giving the resources to the poor? He’s talking about personal charity here.

 

[dvdjs]

Where did He say Caesar should force everybody

1. He did say to pay taxes to Caesar. What do you think he would have hoped that Caesar spend the money on?
2. We do not live in a dictatorship, but enjoy a large degree of self government. Caesar does not force us; We the people have a major role in deciding what to spend the money on. Presumably we should decide in favor of Catholic values.

 

[Peebo]

Did anyone watch EWTN tonight from 6.30pm til 8pm…(I think)…it was called “A Wolf in Sheeps Clothing”…sorry I can’t be more specific because I caught the show half way through and only saw glimpses of the rest…can’t even remember the guys name what the program was about…it talked about communism…socialism…humanism…was from the 50’s I think…I remember there were people from that period who espoused those ideals said that eventually they’ll win with their agenda because those same principles will be applied under different names like liberalism and progressivism…that’s what stood out in what I remember seeing…and isn’t that what is actually happening now…pretty frightening how it has panned out…hope someone can fill in with more detail

 

[upant]

In your above post you’ve proposed a conservative economics, legislation, and agenda are a better solution for the most vulnerable.

did i?
or did i say it is time for a change?

throwing money at the problem has failed. should we keep doing it?

75% of blacks are born to single mothers, is this how you define progressive success?

should we let the moral fabric of society decline even more?

now, what did i propose? oh, to follow catholic teaching… is that a conservative agenda?