True Sabbath Day

[gelsbern]

All these long convoluted explanations and it’s so simple.

In Genesis, God created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. The seventh day became the Sabbath day which ran from sunset Friday night to sunset Saturday night. There are only 7 days in a week and since the Sabbath is on the seventh day, the day after that is the first day of the week. Therefore logically since Sunday comes after Saturday,the first day has to be Sunday. Scripture is filled with references to Jesus’ resurrection on the first day. Therefore Jesus’ resurrection occured on Sunday.

 

[twagler]

Jimmy, do those verses in Acts mean worship?

The book of Acts recounts the development of doctrine and practice in the early Church. Yet the first day of the week is mentioned only once, in Acts 20:7-12. “Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread *, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight” (v. 7). This was a one-time farewell meeting and meal, not a regular worship service. And when we understand that by biblical reckoning days are from sunset to sunset, we can see that the before-midnight portion of “the first day” is actually on Saturday. This “first day” gathering was a Saturday evening event! And at sunrise Sunday morning, Paul began the hard work of a 20-mile hike (vv. 11-14)—not what one would expect if he considered Sunday his Sabbath day of rest!
In 1 Corinthians 16:2, the Apostle Paul requested: “On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.” This is no endorsement at all of Sunday worship. Notice that the practice was meant to stop when Paul came to Corinth! And notice that these verses say nothing about gathering for a weekly worship service to do this collection. This was not a collection of money, but of food to assist the poor in Jerusalem, suffering from drought and famine (cf. Romans 15:25-28). Until Paul’s arrival, each individual was asked to “store up” his contributions—surely in his home. Paul knew that the collection would be bulky enough that it would take several people to transport it to Jerusalem (v. 4)—not what one would expect if money were collected.

Acts 13:14: “But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.”
“But,” some might argue, “Paul was just meeting with the Jews on Saturday since that was *their *Sabbath!” However, the book of Acts tells us that “when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath” (13:42). Here was Paul’s grand opportunity to inform the Gentiles that they would now meet on Sunday! But did he? On the contrary! “The next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God” (v. 44).
The truth of the matter is that neither Paul nor ANY of the Apostles uttered one single word about changing God’s holy Sabbath or any part of the Ten Commandments. Rather, as they had been taught by Christ Himself, they kept, and always assembled on, the seventh day.
What about when Paul traveled through predominately Gentile areas? God’s Word tells us, “Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his CUSTOM was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures” (17:1-2).
It was clearly Paul’s “custom” to meet on the Sabbath. Acts 18:4 tells us that **“he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.”

---

 

[twagler]

gelsbern:

All these long convoluted explanations and it’s so simple.

In Genesis, God created the earth in six days and rested on the seventh. The seventh day became the Sabbath day which ran from sunset Friday night to sunset Saturday night. There are only 7 days in a week and since the Sabbath is on the seventh day, the day after that is the first day of the week. Therefore logically since Sunday comes after Saturday,the first day has to be Sunday. Scripture is filled with references to Jesus’ resurrection on the first day. Therefore Jesus’ resurrection occured on Sunday.

There were also seven high holy days.

Trav

 

[gelsbern]

twagler:

There were also seven high holy days.

Trav

But did these high holy days change which day was the seventh day of the week?

I mean if a high holy day fell on Wednesday did that make Wednesday the seventh day all of a sudden?

I don’t think so.

 

[jimmy]

twagler:

Hi,
I noticed most of the arguments regarding the switch from Saturday to Sunday centered on the resurrection of Christ, which is supposedly the first day, or Sunday. But is it? Matthew 12:40 clearly states that Jesus would be in the Earth for 3 days AND 3 nights. Friday to Sunday is not 72 hours, and I will not accept the partial day explanation. Matt 12:40 did not say part of… There were two sabbath days that week, one was a high holy day. For proof check out: www.tomorrowsworld.org go to the booklets section and click on “True Christian Sabbath Day.” Also, I find it strange that the sabbath was transferred to SUN-day. AND, what is with Pope Alexander VI and his bull establishing the Intenational Dateline? Could it be another attempt to mess up true sabbath keepers? I realize that I may be blind, but I would really appreciate a valid answer to the sabbath question. (not resurrection related, and not “that was the tradition of the church in the New Testament,” because it wasn’t). And if you strongly believe that this was the tradition, please provide scripture (not out of context please). Thank you for your time.

Travis

The sabbath was not transfered to Sunday, it was transfered to the first day of the week. Sunday is a product of Christianity. In Rome the year was broken down into twelve months. They would keep the date by counting from the kalends - which was the beginning - of the month. The ides was the 15th day. There are also nones which is the seventh day. Pridie is the day before the nones or the ides. This is how the date would be in Rome for the second of March.

**“ante diem VI Non. Mart.” **

As you can see it is counting backwards.

The days of the week were a medievel invention by the Catholic Church.

 

[twagler]

gelsbern:

But did these high holy days change which day was the seventh day of the week?

I mean if a high holy day fell on Wednesday did that make Wednesday the seventh day all of a sudden?

I don’t think so.

This is my point exactly. Just because the Bible talks about Jesus being crucified on a preparation day, does not mean it was Friday. John 19:14 “And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!” Thursday was Passover. Jesus was crucified on Wednesday evening “as the sabbath (high holy day) drew near.”

Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"
How does Friday to Sunday equal three days and three nights?
Wednesday evening to Saturday evening.

Scripture also provides further proof that there were TWO Sabbaths that week-an annual and a weekly one. In Mark 15:47, Mary Magdalene and her companion watched Joseph of Arimathea lay Jesus in the tomb near the end of the Passover. The next verse, Mark 16:1, tells us that after the “Sabbath,” Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices with which to anoint Christ’s dead body. However, Luke 23:56 shows that they prepared the spices before the Sabbath. Naturally, they couldn’t have prepared spices before they were even bought! The only explanation that makes sense is that they bought the spices on Friday and prepared them the same day-after the annual Sabbath on Thursday and before the weekly Sabbath on Saturday! Then they rested on the weekly Sabbath-at the end of which Jesus was resurrected. The next morning, Sunday, they came to the tomb before sunrise and found him already gone.

My whole point here is that the CC has no power to change the Sabbath from the Saturday to Sunday.

Trav

 

[scylla]

What does the Bible say about the Truth?

There is only one Truth, and the Bible doesn’t say it is only the Bible.

Timothy 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (KJV)

So I should trust the Catholic Church when I have questions such as these, not Ellen G. White.

 

[twagler]

scylla:

What does the Bible say about the Truth?

There is only one Truth, and the Bible doesn’t say it is only the Bible.

Timothy 3:15

But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (KJV)

So I should trust the Catholic Church when I have questions such as these, not Ellen G. White.

I was always taught that the church in the Bible was simply the followers of Christ. Can anyone explain to me how this church can only mean the CC?

 

[twagler]

jimmy:

The sabbath was not transfered to Sunday, it was transfered to the first day of the week. Sunday is a product of Christianity. In Rome the year was broken down into twelve months. They would keep the date by counting from the kalends - which was the beginning - of the month. The ides was the 15th day. There are also nones which is the seventh day. Pridie is the day before the nones or the ides. This is how the date would be in Rome for the second of March.

"ante diem VI Non. Mart."

As you can see it is counting backwards.

The days of the week were a medievel invention by the Catholic Church.

Isn’t the first day of the week the venerable day of the Sun? I realize that the first day of the week was not called Sunday until a later date. It is simply easier to say Sunday than the first day of the week.

 

[gelsbern]

twagler:

My whole point here is that the CC has no power to change the Sabbath from the Saturday to Sunday.

Trav

I will simply reply with this about the power the CC has, which has been passed down from the Apostles to whom Jesus said in Matthew 16:19(KJV) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

And again in Matthew 18:18(KJV) Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I don’t know about you, but I tend to take Jesus’ word for things, and so if He said this to the Apostles, and the Apostles decided that the Sabbath should be on Sunday, then I believe that Jesus kept His word on it.

 

[twagler]

SDA2RC:

Trav,
Where in scripture does it say that the Bible and nothing else is truth as you have stated above?

What came first… the Bible or the Church?

Brandon

The physical Bible obviously came after the church, except for the entire Old Testament. Isn’t the NT the written form of the traditions and teachings of the disciples? In that sense the NT came before the church as well.

Trav

 

[jimmy]

twagler:

Jimmy, do those verses in Acts mean worship?

The book of Acts recounts the development of doctrine and practice in the early Church. Yet the first day of the week is mentioned only once, in Acts 20:7-12. “Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread *, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight” (v. 7). This was a one-time farewell meeting and meal, not a regular worship service. And when we understand that by biblical reckoning days are from sunset to sunset, we can see that the before-midnight portion of “the first day” is actually on Saturday. This “first day” gathering was a Saturday evening event! And at sunrise Sunday morning, Paul began the hard work of a 20-mile hike (vv. 11-14)—not what one would expect if he considered Sunday his Sabbath day of rest! *

None of what you said is in the verses. It does not say it is a one time thing, that is your own interjection and is not in the text.

Acts 13:14: “But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.”
“But,” some might argue, "Paul was just meeting with the Jews on Saturday since that was *their *

Sabbath!" However, the book of Acts tells us that “when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath” (13:42). Here was Paul’s grand opportunity to inform the Gentiles that they would now meet on Sunday! But did he? On the contrary! “The next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God” (v. 44).
The truth of the matter is that neither Paul nor ANY of the Apostles uttered one single word about changing God’s holy Sabbath or any part of the Ten Commandments. Rather, as they had been taught by Christ Himself, they kept, and always assembled on, the seventh day.
What about when Paul traveled through predominately Gentile areas? God’s Word tells us, “Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. Then Paul, as his CUSTOM was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures” (17:1-2).
It was clearly Paul’s “custom” to meet on the Sabbath. Acts 18:4 tells us that "he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks."

They preached on the sabbath. On the lords day they celebrated the ressurection. The first day was when they broke bread and blessed the bread and ate.

 

[gelsbern]

twagler:

I was always taught that the church in the Bible was simply the followers of Christ. Can anyone explain to me how this church can only mean the CC?

That is a good question for another thread, but I will tell you that the followers of Christ and the Catholic Church are one in the same and have always been. If the denominations of the world were drawn like a family tree, Christ would be the roots, but the Catholic Church would be the trunk and all other Christian denominations would be mere branches.

 

[twagler]

Jimmy,

I have already shown that Christ did not rise on the first day of the week.

Trav

 

[jimmy]

twagler:

This is my point exactly. Just because the Bible talks about Jesus being crucified on a preparation day, does not mean it was Friday. John 19:14 “And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!” Thursday was Passover. Jesus was crucified on Wednesday evening “as the sabbath (high holy day) drew near.”

Matthew 12:40
"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"
How does Friday to Sunday equal three days and three nights?
Wednesday evening to Saturday evening.

Scripture also provides further proof that there were TWO Sabbaths that week-an annual and a weekly one. In Mark 15:47, Mary Magdalene and her companion watched Joseph of Arimathea lay Jesus in the tomb near the end of the Passover. The next verse, Mark 16:1, tells us that after the “Sabbath,” Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices with which to anoint Christ’s dead body. However, Luke 23:56 shows that they prepared the spices before the Sabbath. Naturally, they couldn’t have prepared spices before they were even bought! The only explanation that makes sense is that they bought the spices on Friday and prepared them the same day-after the annual Sabbath on Thursday and before the weekly Sabbath on Saturday! Then they rested on the weekly Sabbath-at the end of which Jesus was resurrected. The next morning, Sunday, they came to the tomb before sunrise and found him already gone.

My whole point here is that the CC has no power to change the Sabbath from the Saturday to Sunday.

Trav

Read the gospel of John chapter 20 where it says,

1 And on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalen cometh early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre; and she saw the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Mary came even before sunrise on the first day. The stone was moved away. Later in the same chapter.

19 Now when it was late that same day, the first of the week, and the doors were shut, where the disciples were gathered together, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them: Peace be to you.

Now, unless I am very mistaken, that says that Jesus came on the first day of the week. This one is from Matt. 28

1 And in the end of the sabbath, when it began to dawn towards the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalen and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre. 2 And behold there was a great earthquake. For an angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and coming, rolled back the stone, and sat upon it.

This one is from Mark 16

2 And very early in the morning, the first day of the week, they come to the sepulchre, the sun being now risen. 3 And they said one to another: Who shall roll us back the stone from the door of the sepulchre? 4 And looking, they saw the stone rolled back. For it was very great. 5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed with a white robe: and they were astonished.

From Luke

1 And on the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came to the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared. 2 And they found the stone rolled back from the sepulchre. 3 And going in, they found not the body of the Lord Jesus.

There is no way you can deny Christ rose on the first day of the week. All four gospels affirm it.

 

[jimmy]

twagler:

Jimmy,

I have already shown that Christ did not rise on the first day of the week.

Trav

I would like to see this proof since I just showed that all four of the gospels affirm that Christ rose on the first day of the week. You can deny it, but you are denying the truth.

 

[SDA2RC]

twagler:

The physical Bible obviously came after the church, except for the entire Old Testament. Isn’t the NT the written form of the traditions and teachings of the disciples? In that sense the NT came before the church as well.

Trav

Trav,
Actually… the entire new Testament came after the Church. The church was started in approx. AD 33 by the apostles at Pentecost. The first books of the New Testament were not written until long after that. But even the OT, did the OT come first, or did the Jewish Church come first?

If that the church came first in both instances what does that tell you about the role of scripture and the Churches? Is the Church an outgrowth of scripture or the scripture an outgrowth of the Church?

Another anology, was the existence of you parents based on you, or was your existence based on the existence of your parents?

You claim that the Bible is all truth… so then how was truth taught before there was a Bible and before it was published? Did Christ found a Bible or a Church? Did Christ setup a printing press or the offices of a Church?

Again I ask… where in scripture are we told that the bible is all truth or even the final word as you have inferred? I can point to verses that show that the Church is the foundation and pillar of truth, but cannot find verses saying the same thing of the Bible.

Finally… if you realize that the Bible could not have been the vehicle of truth setup by Christ (since it did not really exist or was published for many years after Christ) Then what did he found on earth to measure truth by? What does that mean for you?

You came here and presented questions about our beliefs… it is in your answers of the above questions that you will BEGIN to understand the answers of our faith. Christ founded A CHURCH… not a book, what does that mean to you? Also, what church did he found?

Brandon

 

[gelsbern]

twagler:

Jimmy,

I have already shown that Christ did not rise on the first day of the week.

Trav

So you contradict the scriptures? Interesting especially with all the references to Jesus’ resurrection being on the First day.

Very interesting indeed that you seem to deem yourself more authorative than the scriptures.

 

[jimmy]

twagler:

The physical Bible obviously came after the church, except for the entire Old Testament. Isn’t the NT the written form of the traditions and teachings of the disciples? In that sense the NT came before the church as well.

Trav

The NT came after the Church. The Church began on Pentecost about 15 to 20 years before the first book of the NT was written. There was no book that had authority over the Church or the apostles. The bible does not include all of the traditions of the Church. That is why Paul told the people to hold to the traditions whether by epistle or by word of mouth. The epistles were letters to correct errors, they were not intended to expound every doctrine of the Church. The gospels were written to give testimony to Christ that people might have faith. They were not intended to expound all the teachings of the Church.

 

[SDA2RC]

Trav,

You said "My whole point here is that the CC has no power to change the Sabbath from the Saturday to Sunday. "

Tell me what does the word, “Whatever” mean to you?

Matt 18:18
“I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Now you say that the Church as no authority to observe the Lords Day rather than the Sabbath… however, Christ says that WHATEVER you bind will be bound in heaven, WHATEVER you loose will be loose in heaven.

Do you think that Christ made a mistake when he said this, or do you think that he knew what He was saying… even if it goes against your beliefs?

I know I choose to believe God and God said that WHATEVER the church binds on earth is bound in heaven.

Brandon