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PJH_74
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So a man’s actions and speech have no bearing? You might want to run that by your local priest or even better Catholic teaching.
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Peeps
Guest
I believe that the DACA should be given a very quick “path to citizenship,” probably consisting of little more than a swearing of allegiance to the United States. Since most of them have been here since childhood, they have (supposedly) had all kinds of education about American history and have (supposedly) passed the U.S. Constitution test that is (at least used to be and still should be) required to graduate from high school. So let every town and city get together a crowd in the town square or school gymnasium and or church fellowship hall, bring in the judge and a few Senators and Representatives and the Mayor and other town/city dignitaries, then let the DACAs profess their loyalty to their country (the U.S.), and then give them little American flags and full citizenship. And then let the whole town or city celebrate with them.
As for those seeking asylum, I think that their cases should be reviewed in the same way that asylum-seekers have always had their cases reviewed. Those who are deemed as needing asylum should be admitted into the country, while those who are not deemed as needing asylum should be sent back to their country.
I also believe that ALL immigrants into the U.S. should have a sponsor to help them become fully assimilated in this country That sponsor could be an individual–a family member (someone who is already in this country), or simply an interested person who wants to help and has received adequate training. Or the sponsor could be a church, an organization (e.g., a local chapter of the League of Women Voters), a union (e.g., UAW), a club (e.g., Cat Fanciers local chapter), a school, a retirement center, a sports team–anyone who is willing to take on the responsibility of helping someone find their way and become successful in a new land.
I was part of a church in North Carolina that sponsored refugees from the Dega nation (Vietnamese tribal peoples). It was a wonderful experience and if I had the same kind of generous, loving church with people who are willing to give 110%–I would love to do it again!
The U.S. is desperately in need of more people, and since it’s not likely that most American young people will have large families, I think it’s imperative that we seek to admit people from other nations–as long as they are coming here to become full-fledged loyal Americans. What i don’t want to see is immigrants coming to this country to start a “little country of their own” within our country. I certainly want them to hang onto their culture–their traditions, arts, fables and stories, festivals, holidays, and yes, their language–but I want to see them give it to all the rest of us to help the United States continue to be a glorious tapestry of all nations and cultures, but still ONE NATION!
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phujosh
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:smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
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Peeps
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No, no, no! I don’t want to see conservative justices appointed to overturn Roe v. Wade! Even if that happens, it will only return the decision over abortion back to the individual states, many of which will keep abortion legal in their states.
The job of the Supreme Court is to interpret the law. (Reminder–the job of the Congress is to make the laws, and the job of the President is to enforce the laws–sorry to insult everyone’s intelligence and remind us all of our middle school civics lessons).
I want to see conservative justices appointed because they have demonstrated a tendency to interpret the law according to the “original intent” of the U.S. Constitution., while liberal judges have demonstrated a tendency to interpret the laws according to a “living Constitution” which “flexes” to fit the times.
As for Christians putting our trust in the government–the Bible tells us that GOD appoints the governors of the nations, and that they keep their positions or lose them according to HIS will. So we are not putting our trust in mere man, but in those that God has appointed to rule over us. We are also admonished to pray for our leaders, and to be subject to them–as long as we are not required to do evil.
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phujosh
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That is shocking! But the Catholic Church wants it overturned and the Planned Parenthood defunded. What then is the use of yearly Marches for Life to end abortion and the endless bombardment to elect only those prolife politicians solely for the single issue of abortion in hopes for its end? What do you think can be done by the Catholic Church for the end of abortion?
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Peeps
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That is shocking! But the Catholic Church wants it overturned and the Planned Parenthood defunded. What then is the use of yearly Marches for Life to end abortion and the endless bombardment to elect only those prolife politicians solely for the single issue of abortion in hopes for its end? What do you think can be done by the Catholic Church for the end of abortion?[/quote]
PRAY!
Pray that all would be converted to Christianity and be baptized, and PRAY that the Holy Spirit will work in the hearts of all Christians to convict them that yes, abortion is a grave evil and yes, they must oppose it even if clever people make it sound like something good. Pray that our own hearts will be pure and sincere, not self-seeking and lovers of attention.
And WORK! Write elected officials, phone them, and visit them in person and talk to them about the evil of abortion and the good alternatives. Write letters to the editor, speak up at political meetings, and participate in protests. Do not give up. All of us know stories of doctors, actors, politicians, pastors, and other folks who were pro-abortion, but for some reason, usually something very small, were convicted of the evil of abortion and became pro-life advocates.
Most importantly, practice what you pray and preach. Value your own children and the children of others. Get involved with SOME good cause that helps children–you don’t necessarily have to adopt or take in foster children (although if you can, that’s awesome!). But do something else–volunteer to be a youth group sponsor, or to work with Special Olympics, oor spend a few hours a week comforting crack babies, or donate cash and/or material goods to the local Crisis Pregnancy Center or Children’s Center, or get yourself elected President of the PTO. Do SOMETHING that will directly help make children’s lives better.
But mainly, pray.
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phujosh
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So, PRAY, WORK AND PRACTICE WHAT YOU PRAY… It’s not like the majority of 1+ billion Catholics haven’t done this already, non stop praying, offerings, vigils, marches, calling officials and electing pro life politicians. If God is for us, why hasn’t he listened to put an end to abortion? Are we as Catholics doing something wrong? Are we not doing enough as the mystical body of Christ? This is why I sometimes cringe at the Catholic Church who takes the leadership in tackling the issue of abortion and find my self listening to some of the priests’ homilies encouraging us to elect for pro life politicians as if that alone will surely end the abortion. I believe the Catholic leaders aren’t teaching us more on the intricacies of the issues of abortion and how it is intertwined with the other moral, economic and cultural issues prevalent in our Culture and around the world. Our consistent PRAYERS for the end of abortion in my opinion is not enough because the Church is not teaching us to do more of the hard things that make us holy. What I am talking about is that each and every one of the members of the Catholic Church should be offering penances, sacrifices, mortification, detachment of worldly pleasures, self denial with their prayers to change the cultural decay for the transformation of cultures and people and their conversion and ultimately the salvation of souls. If souls are ending up in hell, it only means that not enough Catholics are listening to the many messages in Mother Mary’s apparitions to offer penances, sacrifices, mortifications, and so on and so forth… I hope I am making sense. This I think is what we us Catholics(who are champions in the area of redemptive suffering) can do to change the evil culture and the hearts of every man, if enough of us are taught and have the conviction to do it, not only some of the religious monks, nuns and priests.
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yankeesouth
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Oh of course…that is the result of the liberal left 'seamless garment ideology. And not just abortion…all the life teachings of Jesus as depicted in the five Catholic non negotiables.
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Peeps
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I agree with much of what you say, but I also think that we can’t judge each other. All of us could do more, but many of us are doing as best as we can and we should not condemn anyone for not doing enough.
I also believe that God IS in control, and that 40 years is as a few seconds to God. We need to trust God.
My personal belief, which I have never seen anyone else teach (so I’m probably wrong) is that God is using this horrible issue to bring the Catholic Church and other Christian communities back together.
Think about it–Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is all about unity of Christians, not ending evil. Unity was that important to the Lord Jesus.
I was born in 1957, and when I was growing up, Catholics and Protestants were friendly with each, but both believed that the other was going to the hot place.
Catholics have always taught that abortion is grave evil, and early Protestant denomination taught the same. But as the Protestant church split again and again, teachings against abortion became vaguer, and when I was growing up in the Evangelical churches, they were teaching that abortion is, sadly, sometimes necessary for the sake of the mother. Yikes! But they didn’t have a Pope to warn them, as Pope Paul VI did, about the road to death that society was marching down. Those who did hear the Pope paid no attention, as many actually thought that the Catholic Church was anti-Christ and the Pope just might be the Beast. I’m not kidding here.
Two of the revered Evangelical Protestant teachers back in the 1970s (and until fairly recently) were Tim and Beverly LaHaye. In the 1970s, they wrote The Act of Marriage, a sex manual for Christians. It was hot stuff back then, and my husband and I had a copy because we were dating. In that first edition, the LaHayes stated that abortion was sometimes the only option for women, and they were not just talking about a life or death emergency/
BUT…as abortion became more and more common, and was being used as a birth control method, Protestants started waking up. Evangelicals Dr. James Dobson (clinical psychologist), and Keith Green (singer) began sounding the alarm. Protestants started attending rallies and marches, almost all of which were sponsored by Catholics, and they began working alongside Catholics to stop abortion.
In the 2nd edition of The Act of Marriage, the LaHayes decisively CONDEMN abortion in all circumstances except for the rare situation of a life and death emergency (e.g., ectopic pregnancy).
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I also believe that God IS in control, and that 40 years is as a few seconds to God. We need to trust God.
My personal belief, which I have never seen anyone else teach (so I’m probably wrong) is that God is using this horrible issue to bring the Catholic Church and other Christian communities back together.
Think about it–Jesus’ prayer in John 17 is all about unity of Christians, not ending evil. Unity was that important to the Lord Jesus.
I was born in 1957, and when I was growing up, Catholics and Protestants were friendly with each, but both believed that the other was going to the hot place.
Catholics have always taught that abortion is grave evil, and early Protestant denomination taught the same. But as the Protestant church split again and again, teachings against abortion became vaguer, and when I was growing up in the Evangelical churches, they were teaching that abortion is, sadly, sometimes necessary for the sake of the mother. Yikes! But they didn’t have a Pope to warn them, as Pope Paul VI did, about the road to death that society was marching down. Those who did hear the Pope paid no attention, as many actually thought that the Catholic Church was anti-Christ and the Pope just might be the Beast. I’m not kidding here.
Two of the revered Evangelical Protestant teachers back in the 1970s (and until fairly recently) were Tim and Beverly LaHaye. In the 1970s, they wrote The Act of Marriage, a sex manual for Christians. It was hot stuff back then, and my husband and I had a copy because we were dating. In that first edition, the LaHayes stated that abortion was sometimes the only option for women, and they were not just talking about a life or death emergency/
BUT…as abortion became more and more common, and was being used as a birth control method, Protestants started waking up. Evangelicals Dr. James Dobson (clinical psychologist), and Keith Green (singer) began sounding the alarm. Protestants started attending rallies and marches, almost all of which were sponsored by Catholics, and they began working alongside Catholics to stop abortion.
In the 2nd edition of The Act of Marriage, the LaHayes decisively CONDEMN abortion in all circumstances except for the rare situation of a life and death emergency (e.g., ectopic pregnancy).
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Peeps
Guest
continued from last post
As the years have passed, I have seen more and more Protestants accept that Catholicism IS Christianity. The voice of Evangelical Protestantism, magazine Christianity Today features articles about Catholicism, sometimes written by Catholics, and the magazine also includes “News Updates” that include the latest news about Catholics.
About ten years ago, many Evangelical Protestant churches added ancient practices to their worship services and weekly fellowship, including confession, lectio divina, candles, visual artwork, and Gregorian chant.
I just finished reading a book by John Ortberg (who I grew up with in my church!), and he quoted from CATHOLICS more than from Protestants ! It’s amazing!
I have actually been asked to speak about music at a woman’s conference for an Evangelical denomination, and when I told them that I was Catholic, they said that was fine. Wow–this never would have happened when I was younger!
This is what I think–as Protestants of all denominations, not just the Evangelical denoms, have seen the faithfulness of Catholics in fighting abortion, and the LOVE that Catholics have for not only the unborn, but their parents–Protestants have done some studying, and have come to realize that Catholicism IS Christianity!
Protestants are actually looking into Catholicism. My own father-in-law, who was horrified when we converted, recently said that he would like to convert to Catholicism as he has seen that they are more Biblical in their teachings than his Methodist Church (which actively affirms that abortion is not evil).
So here’s what I think–the split of Christianity was so awful that God has used an AWFUL solution–legal abortion–to answer the prayer of Jesus (John 17) and get us all back together again. HE is not the Author of abortion, but He has used it (Satan must be furious!).
Perhaps because we live in the U.S., where diversity is valued so much, we are blind to the horror of lack of Christian unity. We all think it’s fine, as long as we believe in Jesus and trust Him to get us to heaven. We don’t see how disunity has hurt the Gospel throughout history, and how disunity hurts the world and stops “goodness” from becoming widespread. The scourge of abortion is just one example of what disunity has wrought–had we all been Catholic, it would never have been legalized in the U.S., as we would have followed the teachings of the Church.
I think that when the Protestant and Catholic churches have finally unified, one of the first things that we, the Church of Jesus Christ, will all do together is fall on our knees, confess that we and we alone have been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of innocent lives, and beg God to forgive us for the sin of disunity which brought about the sin of abortion in our lands.
JMO, and I have never seen this in any other Catholic literature. But I truly believe that someday, we will see the Big Picture and recognize that God is definitely in charge.
As the years have passed, I have seen more and more Protestants accept that Catholicism IS Christianity. The voice of Evangelical Protestantism, magazine Christianity Today features articles about Catholicism, sometimes written by Catholics, and the magazine also includes “News Updates” that include the latest news about Catholics.
About ten years ago, many Evangelical Protestant churches added ancient practices to their worship services and weekly fellowship, including confession, lectio divina, candles, visual artwork, and Gregorian chant.
I just finished reading a book by John Ortberg (who I grew up with in my church!), and he quoted from CATHOLICS more than from Protestants ! It’s amazing!
I have actually been asked to speak about music at a woman’s conference for an Evangelical denomination, and when I told them that I was Catholic, they said that was fine. Wow–this never would have happened when I was younger!
This is what I think–as Protestants of all denominations, not just the Evangelical denoms, have seen the faithfulness of Catholics in fighting abortion, and the LOVE that Catholics have for not only the unborn, but their parents–Protestants have done some studying, and have come to realize that Catholicism IS Christianity!
Protestants are actually looking into Catholicism. My own father-in-law, who was horrified when we converted, recently said that he would like to convert to Catholicism as he has seen that they are more Biblical in their teachings than his Methodist Church (which actively affirms that abortion is not evil).
So here’s what I think–the split of Christianity was so awful that God has used an AWFUL solution–legal abortion–to answer the prayer of Jesus (John 17) and get us all back together again. HE is not the Author of abortion, but He has used it (Satan must be furious!).
Perhaps because we live in the U.S., where diversity is valued so much, we are blind to the horror of lack of Christian unity. We all think it’s fine, as long as we believe in Jesus and trust Him to get us to heaven. We don’t see how disunity has hurt the Gospel throughout history, and how disunity hurts the world and stops “goodness” from becoming widespread. The scourge of abortion is just one example of what disunity has wrought–had we all been Catholic, it would never have been legalized in the U.S., as we would have followed the teachings of the Church.
I think that when the Protestant and Catholic churches have finally unified, one of the first things that we, the Church of Jesus Christ, will all do together is fall on our knees, confess that we and we alone have been responsible for the deaths of hundreds of millions of innocent lives, and beg God to forgive us for the sin of disunity which brought about the sin of abortion in our lands.
JMO, and I have never seen this in any other Catholic literature. But I truly believe that someday, we will see the Big Picture and recognize that God is definitely in charge.
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phujosh
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I don’t believe I’ve condemned anyone who wasn’t doing enough. I just wish that the Catholic Church would dwell more on what we can do religiously or spiritually like what I’ve suggested other than what it seems to me like we are putting all of our hopes and trusts on the hands of politicians for the end of abortion.
Amazing that many Protestants do not know that they were once part of The Catholic Church. As for unity, yes, I believe that we can have unity in diversity. We can’t convert everyone into Christianity or Catholicism. Regardless of our beliefs, there is an innate understanding in every single one of us that we are all brothers and sisters binded to universal respect, accountable to one another no matter our religion, nationality, ethnicity, culture, heritage, etc…
The understanding that Catholicism is only Christianity is not totally correct. It is more than Christianity. It is a Greek word for UNIVERSAL which is not merely to mean existing or prevailing everywhere, but more accurately, and specifically, it is to mean of, relating to, or typical of the whole of mankind or of nature, embracing, applicable to or affecting and comprising all cultures and their tribal, localized and world religions. In short, Catholicism is the universal religion of all of the major world religions comprising of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, etc… Reflect on that for a moment…
Climate change is real and human actions affect it. How can it not? If we believe that our sins can cause natural disasters, why not believe that too much consumerism of fossil fuel can increase temperature? This is so basic universally. Our thoughts and actions have consequences and effects on the visible world that we see, human beings and the natural environment… In other words, how you treat everything that you see around you is how you treat yourself because we are all connected from one another and made from one source.
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YourNameHere
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Over the years, Trump has said a lot of things about a lot of different issues.
At one time, he was a huge supporter of choice when it comes to abortion.
I have trouble with people who waver or flip flop of issues.
There is always the chance that they will flip flop the other way.
I do not trust Donald Trump.
At one time, he was a huge supporter of choice when it comes to abortion.
I have trouble with people who waver or flip flop of issues.
There is always the chance that they will flip flop the other way.
I do not trust Donald Trump.
That is a real problem.
Some of the best speakers for life were once for abortion.
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YourNameHere
Guest
And there are a lot of folks out there who will say or do anything to make a few dollars.
They have no convictions or conscience.
They have no convictions or conscience.
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phujosh
Guest
And what do think is the best way to change people’s hearts and minds?
There are a variety of ways this can be accomplished.
Mostly through prayer. Without God’s assistance it is not possible.
However, expressing a distrust for people that have reconsidered their position on abortion on the basis that they changed their minds is counter-productive.
There is a reason that many of our strongest pro-life advocates were once pro-death.
And we are then going to turn on them with distrust?
We should judge individuals based upon their actions…for we may never know their heart.
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phujosh
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Prayer, true… But I will give some more answers later after having a chance to debate with you…
And since you indicated that we may never know what’s in their hearts and we can only judge someone based upon their actions, how can you be too sure that a politician’s action is really authentic in their advocacy for the pro life and not politically motivated? They are politicians after all and it’s innate for them to use and lie for their own benefits and politics is the domain of the devil
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If they successfully curtail abortion in this country, I am not sure it matters if the actions are politically motivated.
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phujosh
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Do you suppose that will ever happen? We’ve elected presidents who claimed to be pro life in the past and now in the present, we’ve achieved conservative majority in all branches of government, why hasn’t the abortion been successfully curtailed? And I just heard today, why did the majority pro life Supreme Court judges block restrictive Louisiana abortion law? What do you think is going on?
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