Trump Could Win It All

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LeafByNiggle said:
Now you are qualifying your earlier statement with the qualifier “when confronted with it”. That is an important distinction, because that is exactly what is not clear in the issues we are discussing. Does the fact the someone is running for office who is pro-choice constitute “being confronted” by evil? That is not entirely clear. I maintain that the situation is a little more like someone choosing to go out of their way to confront evil that was not confronting them. Sort of like deciding whether sanctions against South Africa during apartheid were called for. The evil in South Africa was not confronting us. We could choose to oppose it or not. Opposing it is a good thing. Not opposing it might be neutral, depending on the circumstances, but is not necessarily a moral failing.

When you declare that Catholics must oppose abortion any chance we get, it is like arguing for sanctions against South Africa. It is morally optional.

That is not always what is at stake. In the case of Trump, we have only his recent untested declarations that are contrary to his past positions. In that case, voting for him over Hillary might produce an infinitesimally better chance of preventing abortions, but a much bigger chance of destroying the country through his mad policies. That is just my opinion, and I don’t ask that you share it. But it does come down to a matter of opinion.

Are you saying that every time we go the the movies was are sinning? There is always an opportunity to oppose evil, and it is unreasonable to demand that we do so all the time.
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We are all called to be saints, but we fail to do it in this life. That’s why the Sacrament of Penance exists.

I’m not a Trump supporter, but I would vote for him over Hillary Clinton for a number of reasons, the biggest one being that he is not clearly an abortion supporter while she is, and because he can’t totally ignore what his constituency thinks about it, while Hillary Clinton’s constituency is pro-abortion so she doesn’t need to worry about being as pro-abortion as she pleases.

What policies of Trump’s are “mad”? And what could possibly be more “mad” than Hillary Clinton’s (and Obama’s) war on Libya which turned the country over to terrorists? And do you really consider “We came, we saw, Quaddhaffi died” followed by that laugh of hers entirely sane? Perhaps that didn’t raise the hair on the back of you neck, but it did mine. Possibly, but not certainly, a political lifetime of supporting the killing of unborn children has made her morally callous to the extent that she finds savage torture-deaths amusing.

And nothing could possibly be more clear than Hillary Clinton’s support of abortion on demand. Planned Parenthood’s recent endorsement of her shows they think so, so is there some persuasive reason anyone else should doubt it? Sometimes opinion really must give way to obvious facts.
 
Crossbones said:
I would disagree. Voting for a third party allows the major parties to identify issues that are not represented by either party. The third party votes for Mr. Perot in 1992 pushed both parties to take on fiscal policies that resulted in a balanced budget.
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I wish Ross had run in the Primary instead of the General election. He could have brought those issues to the forefront earlier in the campaign cycle, without causing a split in the general.

If Trump loses a fair fight in the Primary, I don’t think he will run in the General as a third party candidate.
 
Theo520 said:
I wish Ross had run in the Primary instead of the General election. He could have brought those issues to the forefront earlier in the campaign cycle, without causing a split in the general.

If Trump loses a fair fight in the Primary, I don’t think he will run in the General as a third party candidate.
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I have serious doubts he would have made as big of a difference running in the primary.
 
Ridgerunner said:
What policies of Trump’s are “mad”? And what could possibly be more “mad” than Hillary Clinton’s (and Obama’s) war on Libya which turned the country over to terrorists?
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You have your opinions and I have mine. I won’t try to convince you of mine, and so I hope you will excuse me for not adopting yours.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
You have your opinions and I have mine. I won’t try to convince you of mine, and so I hope you will excuse me for not adopting yours.
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I realize I will not likely ever persuade you of anything. All the same, and stating again that Trump is not my favored Repub candidate, when one says his policies are “mad”, (insane) then one cannot be greatly blamed for wondering aloud just which policies another views as “mad”. “Mad” is pretty strong stuff.

As a non-Trumper or Trumpette (sorry, couldn’t resist that one) I view him as rude and inflammatory. But his results to date suggest that he’s far from stupid and even further from being “mad”.

Possibly, being a Missourian and a country bumpkin as I am, as well as a Democrat from birth whose party ran off and left its better traditions, I have an excessive regard for Harry Truman. Trump isn’t Truman, but he’s the closest thing I have seen in any presidential contest in my lifetime.

One of my favorite Truman stories is when Bess Truman was asked if she felt offended that Truman publicly called things he didn’t like “manure” with some frequency. Bess responded that, no she wasn’t offended, because it took her years to get him to replace his usual expression with the word “manure”.
 
Ridgerunner said:
I realize I will not likely ever persuade you of anything. All the same, and stating again that Trump is not my favored Repub candidate, when one says his policies are “mad”, (insane) then one cannot be greatly blamed for wondering aloud just which policies another views as “mad”. “Mad” is pretty strong stuff.

As a non-Trumper or Trumpette (sorry, couldn’t resist that one) I view him as rude and inflammatory. But his results to date suggest that he’s far from stupid and even further from being “mad”.

Possibly, being a Missourian and a country bumpkin as I am, as well as a Democrat from birth whose party ran off and left its better traditions, I have an excessive regard for Harry Truman. Trump isn’t Truman, but he’s the closest thing I have seen in any presidential contest in my lifetime.

One of my favorite Truman stories is when Bess Truman was asked if she felt offended that Truman publicly called things he didn’t like “manure” with some frequency. Bess responded that, no she wasn’t offended, because it took her years to get him to replace his usual expression with the word “manure”.
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Trump’s choice of coarse words to express his ideas is a superficial problem, and really of very little concern to me. I could almost find it endearing. It is the ideas themselves, even if restated using the nicest possible words, I still find “mad”.
 
LeafByNiggle said:
Trump’s choice of coarse words to express his ideas is a superficial problem, and really of very little concern to me. I could almost find it endearing. It is the ideas themselves, even if restated using the nicest possible words, I still find “mad”.
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I agree that he is frightening and not in step with Catholic principles in different issues.
 
Ridgerunner said:
We are all called to be saints, but we fail to do it in this life. That’s why the Sacrament of Penance exists.

And nothing could possibly be more clear than Hillary Clinton’s support of abortion on demand. Planned Parenthood’s recent endorsement of her shows they think so, so is there some persuasive reason anyone else should doubt it? Sometimes opinion really must give way to obvious facts.
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Trump is talking with the American people - no teleprompter, straight talk. He has called for Planned Parenthood to be denied tax dollars, he is pro-life. He is earning confidence in making his case for President. How could we possibly not be 110% better off with Trump than with Hilary Clinton and her better half (:rolleyes:)

Hilary praises Cecile Richards great victory in championing the cause of the great abortion industry and infant body part salvage sales. Women, who once were little precious baby girls that have enjoyed life are now demanding our country pay for these heinous sinful acts. These women are those who crave Hilary Clinton as President.
What man, brave and courageous, with a heart that is good would lend their strength and support to these Hilary voters?

Even if some people will blindly continue to cheer her on, the exposure of so many blatant failures of serving the US (except for criminal punishment) would be enough to pursuade a low information voter to choose another.
 
grotto said:
Trump is talking with the American people - no teleprompter, straight talk. He has called for Planned Parenthood to be denied tax dollars, he is pro-life. He is earning confidence in making his case for President. How could we possibly not be 110% better off with Trump than with Hilary Clinton and her better half (:rolleyes:)

Hilary praises Cecile Richards great victory in championing the cause of the great abortion industry and infant body part salvage sales. Women, who once were little precious baby girls that have enjoyed life are now demanding our country pay for these heinous sinful acts. These women are those who crave Hilary Clinton as President.
What man, brave and courageous, with a heart that is good would lend their strength and support to these Hilary voters?

Even if some people will blindly continue to cheer her on, the exposure of so many blatant failures of serving the US (except for criminal punishment) would be enough to pursuade a low information voter to choose another.
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I realize I’m probably backing a lost cause in preferring Christie, but I do. But I would vote for Trump before Hillary Clinton. I would, in fact, vote for the 837th name in the New York phone book before Hillary Clinton, or the 1034th if you prefer. 🙂
 
In choosing other than Trump, I include only those of the Republican party. Any one of them!
 
Ridgerunner said:
I realize I’m probably backing a lost cause in preferring Christie, but I do. But I would vote for Trump before Hillary Clinton. I would, in fact, vote for the 837th name in the New York phone book before Hillary Clinton, or the 1034th if you prefer. 🙂
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What if that name is Hillary Clinton. Don’t they still have a residence there?
 
JonNC said:
Voting for a third party gets Clinton elected.
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This is untrue; a scare tactic easily seen through by anyone with a modicum of logic. The premise is assumed, without evidence, that anyone who would vote for a third party would otherwise be voting Donald Trump. A conclusion based on a false assumption is lacking in reason.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Which evils?
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The love of money is the root of all evil. I know that the worship of Molech in the form of abortion is a terrible evil, but I will not trade it for the worship of Mammon. Then I also have problems with the evils of racism, sexism, lust and fornication. Sin does not disqualify anyone from my consideration, but Trump lacks any outward sign of morality that would make him one I could vote form.

I find Clinton’s lack of respect for unborn life troubling. I find Trump’s lack of respect for all life also troubling.
 
pnewton said:
The love of money is the root of all evil. I know that the worship of Molech in the form of abortion is a terrible evil, but I will not trade it for the worship of Mammon. Then I also have problems with the evils of racism, sexism, lust and fornication. Sin does not disqualify anyone from my consideration, but Trump lacks any outward sign of morality that would make him one I could vote form.

I find Clinton’s lack of respect for unborn life troubling. I find Trump’s lack of respect for all life also troubling.
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Are you sure you aren’t describing both HC and BC ,rather than Trump?
 
pnewton said:
The love of money is the root of all evil. I know that the worship of Molech in the form of abortion is a terrible evil, but I will not trade it for the worship of Mammon. Then I also have problems with the evils of racism, sexism, lust and fornication. Sin does not disqualify anyone from my consideration, but Trump lacks any outward sign of morality that would make him one I could vote form.

I find Clinton’s lack of respect for unborn life troubling. I find Trump’s lack of respect for all life also troubling.
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If love of money qualifies the Clinton and trump both have that fault. Along with the seeking of power. I think hillary’s sexism is worse given her support of her husband and defamation of his accusers. I don’t think trump is racist any more than Obama is. And I don’t think Hillary can take the high ground on any of that other stuff either. Let’s ask Vince foster about her respect for life. Wait we can’t…
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
If love of money qualifies the Clinton and trump both have that fault. Along with the seeking of power. I think hillary’s sexism is worse given her support of her husband and defamation of his accusers…
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I do not doubt that. But the question was about Trump. I cannot trust him morally (either).

Like I have said in another thread, this decision for me is very close to choosing which demon, Mammon or Molech, would I like best.
 
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