Trump Could Win It All

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Benedict_Option said:
Seeing as the United Kingdom, a country of less than 70 million people is currently represented in Parliament by 11 differing political parties, I wouldn’t really mind pledging allegiance to her majesty. If it meant that our politically polarized and fractured country would be better represented politically. 😉
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👍 It’s so discouraging when you occasionally find a candidate you can mostly/fully support with a clear conscious and then be told repeatedly that you’re “throwing away” your vote by voting for them, because they aren’t one in one of the two main parties. I wonder how our political system would be different if we had more parties people weren’t afraid to vote towards - how many people would move over to support a third or fourth or fifth party!

Wishful thinking, I know.
 
pnewton said:
I do not doubt that. But the question was about Trump. I cannot trust him morally (either).

Like I have said in another thread, this decision for me is very close to choosing which demon, Mammon or Molech, would I like best.
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It’s foolish to trust any human being morally. Remember that “…even the just man falls seven times a day…”

We do know for sure that Hillary Clinton is utterly devoted to abortion on demand. She has made that crystal clear. We also know she is grasping when it comes to money; possibly to the degree that she has sold influence.

I think we also know she’s has a penchant for cruelty. There was the “bimbo squad” she operated to harass and defame the women in her husband’s life. Also, that “…we same, we conquered, Quadhaffi died…” followed by that laugh, is beyond creepy and unsettling.

We don’t actually know whether Trump “worships” money or not. He has a lot of it. We really don’t know whether it’s money he loves or the “game” of acquisition. There have been lots of great philanthropists who have gained fortunes for love of the “game”. One interesting thing we have NOT heard is that he underpays his employees, while we have heard that about Hillary Clinton.

But the jury isn’t in on Trump loving money. Not yet.

And we don’t know if Trump laughs at horrible sadistic deaths either, like Hillary Clinton did.
 
pnewton said:
The love of money is the root of all evil. I know that the worship of Molech in the form of abortion is a terrible evil, but I will not trade it for the worship of Mammon. Then I also have problems with the evils of racism, sexism, lust and fornication. Sin does not disqualify anyone from my consideration, but Trump lacks any outward sign of morality that would make him one I could vote form.

I find Clinton’s lack of respect for unborn life troubling. I find Trump’s lack of respect for all life also troubling.
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I want to revisit this for a minute. Love of money probably describes your favorite actor or sports star. It most definately describes ANY choice for president. I also take issue with declaring trump a racist.
Equating abortion with money is foolish because if you really think about it would you play on someone’s greed to convince them not to have an abortion? Hopefully we all would
 
AnnieHall said:
👍 It’s so discouraging when you occasionally find a candidate you can mostly/fully support with a clear conscious and then be told repeatedly that you’re “throwing away” your vote by voting for them, because they aren’t one in one of the two main parties. I wonder how our political system would be different if we had more parties people weren’t afraid to vote towards - how many people would move over to support a third or fourth or fifth party!

Wishful thinking, I know.
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I have said before and I say again, the presidency is not the place to start. A third party needs to build up constituents by running for, and winning, local elections. And with the parties so fractured, how can a third party president get any more accomplished. IMO, the two main parties would not work with a third party president. If we have too many political parties we many as well have a Parliament instead of the three branches of government we now have.

And as far as throwing away your vote, how would you feel if the most evil of the two were elected with the votes for a third party. At this point in time, a third party candidate has absolutely no chance of winning. Don’t know if Trump does this would make a difference or not.
 
mary_bobo said:
I have said before and I say again, the presidency is not the place to start.

And as far as throwing away your vote, how would you feel if the most evil of the two were elected with the votes for a third party.
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I certainly understand and on some level of course agree with what you’re saying.

I do think the only way for another party to eventually move up is for people to not be afraid to vote with their conscious, and for whichever candidate they believe could do the job best - not for whichever one they believe has the best odds. Even if it started with local/state candidates, or if it took a few elections for more people to lose that fear of “throwing away” their votes after seeing increased numbers, I think that’s the only way that change could happen, and honestly maybe one of the few ways for the country to move away from the partisan gridlock it seems to be stuck in so often.

I have never personally felt like my vote didn’t matter, or felt guilty for voting for a third party candidate. I do my research on candidates, and vote for who I think is best, and that’s the best that I can do, aside from trying to encourage others to do the research and vote for who they believe is best. 🤷 People can talk numbers or strategies or whatever, but I don’t feel guilt for doing my best, nor do I try to make others feel guilty for voting the way they honestly think is best.

Like I said though, I’m aware my thoughts on more parties is likely just wishful thinking. 😉
 
AnnieHall said:
I certainly understand and on some level of course agree with what you’re saying.

I do think the only way for another party to eventually move up is for people to not be afraid to vote with their conscious, and for whichever candidate they believe could do the job best - not for whichever one they believe has the best odds. Even if it started with local/state candidates, or if it took a few elections for more people to lose that fear of “throwing away” their votes after seeing increased numbers, I think that’s the only way that change could happen, and honestly maybe one of the few ways for the country to move away from the partisan gridlock it seems to be stuck in so often.

I have never personally felt like my vote didn’t matter, or felt guilty for voting for a third party candidate. I do my research on candidates, and vote for who I think is best, and that’s the best that I can do, aside from trying to encourage others to do the research and vote for who they believe is best. 🤷 People can talk numbers or strategies or whatever, but I don’t feel guilt for doing my best, nor do I try to make others feel guilty for voting the way they honestly think is best.

Like I said though, I’m aware my thoughts on more parties is likely just wishful thinking. 😉
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All votes matter, but sometimes they help elect the worst of the worst.
 
Ridgerunner said:
It’s foolish to trust any human being morally. Remember that “…even the just man falls seven times a day…”
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Yes, and I am more than willing to vote for someone who has shown himself to be just. Moral integrity is not about perfection.
But the jury isn’t in on Trump loving money. Not yet.
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I can only make a judgment on how to vote based on what he has said and what he has done.
We do know for sure that Hillary Clinton is utterly devoted to abortion on demand.
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I would never consider voting for her. I thought I made that clear.
Hoosier_Daddy said:
. I also take issue with declaring trump a racist.
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Take what issue you want. I did not call him a racist. I said racism is an issue. When he made bigoted statements against groups of people for whom Jesus died, I will not vote for him. He lacks the moral integrity I look for in a candidate.
Equating abortion with money is foolish …
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I did not. St. Paul did not equate them. He said* the love of money* is the root of all evil.

I note in this era of “The Five Non-negotiables”, that Catholics seem to have lost the value of the Seven Deadly Sins, of which, neither abortion or homosexuality is included. When we consider changing the culture of death, the true cause of legalized abortion, not politics, and ask ourselves how we have fallen so far, I cannot help but think that we are shaped by our false idols, namely, the rich and famous. Children are disposable not out of the desire to murder driven by hate, but because they are seen as an obstacle to lifestyle, money or career. Why would I want such a strong symbol of all that is wrong with pride and ambition to be elevated to the highest office in the land? Even with abortion, I fear his recent embrace of the pro-life cause will do nothing but enhance his message of win at any cost. “Be pro-life when you must”, or “terminate your pregnancy if you must” have the same motive.

I will not vote for Trump. Period.
 
pnewton said:
Yes, and I am more than willing to vote for someone who has shown himself to be just. Moral integrity is not about perfection.
I can only make a judgment on how to vote based on what he has said and what he has done.
I would never consider voting for her. I thought I made that clear.
Take what issue you want. I did not call him a racist. I said racism is an issue. When he made bigoted statements against groups of people for whom Jesus died, I will not vote for him. He lacks the moral integrity I look for in a candidate.
I did not. St. Paul did not equate them. He said* the love of money* is the root of all evil.

I note in this era of “The Five Non-negotiables”, that Catholics seem to have lost the value of the Seven Deadly Sins, of which, neither abortion or homosexuality is included. When we consider changing the culture of death, the true cause of legalized abortion, not politics, and ask ourselves how we have fallen so far, I cannot help but think that we are shaped by our false idols, namely, the rich and famous. Children are disposable not out of the desire to murder driven by hate, but because they are seen as an obstacle to lifestyle, money or career. Why would I want such a strong symbol of all that is wrong with pride and ambition to be elevated to the highest office in the land? Even with abortion, I fear his recent embrace of the pro-life cause will do nothing but enhance his message of win at any cost. “Be pro-life when you must”, or “terminate your pregnancy if you must” have the same motive.

I will not vote for Trump. Period.
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Then who would you vote for. Since love of money or power seems to be the common factor in every candidate in every election of modern time…
Your argument reminds me of baseball strikes where millionaires have to unionize against billionaires and cry poverty. Is trump flamboyant with money, ego and power? You bet. But anyone in the race is as well. They just may not have as much.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
Since love of money or power seems to be the common factor in every candidate in every election of modern time…
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I have not seen a candidate like Donald Trump ever. As I have said before, I would likely vote for Rubio or Paul. I know I would vote for Bush. I would even consider Cruz.

I have no idea what your umpire analogy means. I am not wanting anything personally.
 
Jeanne_S said:
Are you sure you aren’t describing both HC and BC ,rather than Trump?
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Both sides can be accused of bigotry really or can be an issue for both sides, to some people, law breaking entering the border and the victims of those who cross illegally is totally ignored. As I said, I’d look at both sides and in that, when “integrity” is questioned, again, I’d look at both sides.
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
If love of money qualifies the Clinton and trump both have that fault. Along with the seeking of power. I think hillary’s sexism is worse given her support of her husband and defamation of his accusers. I don’t think trump is racist any more than Obama is. And I don’t think Hillary can take the high ground on any of that other stuff either. Let’s ask Vince foster about her respect for life. Wait we can’t…
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One might remember, it’s proven some do not really at the least, address Americans damaged by illegal aliens, hence, they basically carry the banner. They morally, should be questioned as much.
 
pnewton said:
Yes, and I am more than willing to vote for someone who has shown himself to be just. Moral integrity is not about perfection.
I can only make a judgment on how to vote based on what he has said and what he has done.
I would never consider voting for her. I thought I made that clear.
Take what issue you want. I did not call him a racist. I said racism is an issue. When he made bigoted statements against groups of people for whom Jesus died, I will not vote for him. He lacks the moral integrity I look for in a candidate.
I did not. St. Paul did not equate them. He said* the love of money* is the root of all evil.

I note in this era of “The Five Non-negotiables”, that Catholics seem to have lost the value of the Seven Deadly Sins, of which, neither abortion or homosexuality is included. When we consider changing the culture of death, the true cause of legalized abortion, not politics, and ask ourselves how we have fallen so far, I cannot help but think that we are shaped by our false idols, namely, the rich and famous. Children are disposable not out of the desire to murder driven by hate, but because they are seen as an obstacle to lifestyle, money or career. Why would I want such a strong symbol of all that is wrong with pride and ambition to be elevated to the highest office in the land? Even with abortion, I fear his recent embrace of the pro-life cause will do nothing but enhance his message of win at any cost. “Be pro-life when you must”, or “terminate your pregnancy if you must” have the same motive.

I will not vote for Trump. Period.
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What were trumps bigoted statements?
 
Lol I think Obama is jar jar. And I think jar jar is the sith.
I think Christie is more a hut. Being a soprano from jersey. I think trump is more like solo. An opportunist who is reluctantly fighting for the rebellion all the while ticking the princesses off and saying pretty inflamitory things…
 
Hoosier_Daddy said:
What were trumps bigoted statements?
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He lumped all Mexican immigrants together as criminals, drug mules and rapists. He lumped them* all*. He then backed down and stated he would* assume *some are good people. He did this three times. He then defended his sentence, instead of apologizing for the poor phrasing or the temper. This has been discussed at length here by Trump apologists. However, as I am not ignorant and am capable of understand English sentence structure, such arguments hold no merit for me. I would have accepted that he spoke in haste had he not backed down from his inflammatory speech. I expect just bringing this up, at your insistence by the way, there will be more apologists for him tell me I am wrong. However, these opinions have no bearing on my vote. I have read them all before.
 
I’d vote for Trump. I don’t think people should abstain from voting. If both candidates are unpleasant, then we should vote for the lesser of two evils (Hillary is the greater evil).
 
pnewton said:
He lumped all Mexican immigrants together as criminals, drug mules and rapists. He lumped them* all*. He then backed down and stated he would* assume *some are good people. He did this three times. He then defended his sentence, instead of apologizing for the poor phrasing or the temper. This has been discussed at length here by Trump apologists. However, as I am not ignorant and am capable of understand English sentence structure, such arguments hold no merit for me. I would have accepted that he spoke in haste had he not backed down from his inflammatory speech. I expect just bringing this up, at your insistence by the way, there will be more apologists for him tell me I am wrong. However, these opinions have no bearing on my vote. I have read them all before.
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I was unaware he made that statement about all immigrants. An you cite that?
 
pnewton said:
Here are some of the earlier discussions.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=968324&highlight=trump&page=10

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=970498&highlight=trump

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=971492&highlight=trump
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Oh ok, so he didn’t say what you said. He was noting the truth that the privileged in Mexico are not sneaking accross the boarder. Nor did he say all. And he spoke the truth. What was the racist bigoted part? I must have missed that. All I saw was a candidate for president wanting to have defined controlled boarders. Tell me, why did he not say that about Canadians who come here?
 
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