Trump launches military strike against Syria

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Peebo said:
And meanwhile innocent Syrian civilians are being killed by all sides of this conflict…we can only hope it’s true that the horrendous chemical attack on those poor people was sanctioned by the Assad regime as we’ve been told and this missile strike was a just response to that horrific event …after the Iraq WMD balls-up by the intelligence agencies it does make one curious if they actually got their facts right this time…and while we should rightly react to this barbaric attack if it’s true…yet at the same time here we have recent US led air strikes that have killed hundreds of innocent Syrian civilians…shouldn’t we be equally horrified…probably not because we think we’re the good guys trying to save them…I wonder how the innocent Syrians feel about their country being used as an ideological battleground by those involved…
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:yup::yup::yup:
 
tomarin said:
What’s interesting about this is that in one deft move, it not only signals to the Syrians (and other potential antagonists to U.S. interests) that certain actions are beyond the pale, but it also domestically removes the appearance or suspicion that Trump is beholden to the Russians or that he is an isolationist. Or that he doesn’t have a heart or a sense of decency. Or that he is being controlled by his advisors. I’m not sure how it affects the long term outcome in Syria, but it certainly puts President Trump in a new light.
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Yep.

He played his hand well here, what with Russiagate going on.

To me, it works on both the foreign policy and domestic fronts.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
An escalation of imperialist intervention in the Middle East? Why oppose nationalism if you’re going to support pointless and destructive imperialist efforts like this?

Also, what possible “moral certitude” could have inspired this considering the fact that the US has been responsible for the deaths of so many innocents in the Middle East, such as the air strike in Mosul which killed 200 civilians? Considering the USA’s own terrible record, I really doubt morality is the main driving force here. Supposed moral outrage against the supposed use of chemical weapons is just an excuse for actions such as this.
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^^^^^^^

This is my albeit uninformed take on it. I don’t buy a semblance of concern or morality here. This is bloodthirsty warmongering. It was the intention all along, and I sympathize with Trump voters who are realizing they were lied to.

Humans LOVE war. It’s exciting! It provides a sense of meaning and purpose! You get to indulge all you feelings of hatred and superiority over the 'bad" others. It’s great for the economy (well for some) before war debt imperils your very existence in the future. I think young sociopaths sign up for the military because they look forward to legally killing people.

Losing hope in human nature over here.
 
exnihilo said:
Let’s be clear about what Trump is prepared to do. He is prepared to give an order to launch missiles from miles away to kill whatever happens to be at their destination. He is prepared to use taxpayer money to fund this. He may be prepared to send other people’s boys off to die in the Middle East. None of this demonstrates any measure of strength or courage. None of it is a personal sacrifice.

The idea that Obama was too weak to give the same orders to kill is ridiculous since he so often did exactly that. Some of us voted for Trump precisely because he decried the ‘we same, we saw, he died’ followed by maniacal laughter policy of Obama/Clinton.
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Obama was the high prince of cautious, commendable but utterly ineffectual dithering within the ambit of a multilateral approach to presidential policy-making, his taking out of Osama Bin Laden notwithstanding.

You will never be able to convince me - despite the respect that I have for his other, I would say evident, virtues and achievements while in office - that he dictated foreign policy, in the main, from a position of strength and with uncompromising authority.

His multilateralism, at once his most admirable asset, also ended up being his most grievous character flaw and it had weighty ramifications, especially for the Middle East.
 
edwest2 said:
That’s right. This is a coordinated effort. The Russians know what we know. But the rest of the story? Who knows. It will bring more eyeballs to TV and the internet. And yes, defense contractors have got to move product… uh missiles. (Painted on side: “Note: One-time use only. For replacements, please contact ].”

Ed
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Unfortunately, true. Thanks, Ed. As usual, you speak truth. :p:o
 
Questioner2 said:
^^^^^^^

This is my albeit uninformed take on it. I don’t buy a semblance of concern or morality here. This is bloodthirsty warmongering. It was the intention all along, and I sympathize with Trump voters who are realizing they were lied to.

Humans LOVE war. It’s exciting! It provides a sense of meaning and purpose! You get to indulge all you feelings of hatred and superiority over the 'bad" others. It’s great for the economy (well for some) before war debt imperils your very existence in the future. I think young sociopaths sign up for the military because they look forward to legally killing people.

Losing hope in human nature over here.
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War is nothing to celebrate but it is sometimes necessary.
 
Vouthon said:
Donald Trump demonstrated that he, unlike his predecessor Barack Obama - who was weakened in his position by the British Parliament and his own, perfectly understandable, multilateral instincts - is not only capable of drawing a “red line” but is prepared to punish those who cross it.

I respect that, over and above the moral certitude and international security imperatives underlying this intervention, I really do.

Trump seems to be more of a unilateral actor rather than a multilateral one like Obama, who always relied on consensus from US allies and never exerted American strength in its own right, for its own purpose and strategic goals.

I never understood “Make America Great Again”, nor did I like the nativist-tinged nostalgia and nationalism - or Trump’s often uncouth and insufferable way of speaking as well as conducting himself - but if this is what it amounts to in the foreign policy realm, acting in defence of American values - which are human values - when the need be grave and manifest, unilaterally if required, then I’m all for it.
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:clapping::clapping:
 
Questioner2 said:
^^^^^^^

This is my albeit uninformed take on it. I don’t buy a semblance of concern or morality here. This is bloodthirsty warmongering. It was the intention all along, and I sympathize with Trump voters who are realizing they were lied to.

Humans LOVE war. It’s exciting! It provides a sense of meaning and purpose! You get to indulge all you feelings of hatred and superiority over the 'bad" others. It’s great for the economy (well for some) before war debt imperils your very existence in the future. I think young sociopaths sign up for the military because they look forward to legally killing people.

Losing hope in human nature over here.
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The only sociopath here deriving any perverse pleasure from needlessly killing people is Assad.

What purpose do chemicals have over conventional armaments? Hmmm? They are not targeted, strategic weapons.

Their only purpose is to induce terror in the victims and those who happen to witness the attack, by slaughtering people through slow, torturous asphyxiation and in an utterly indiscriminate manner. Assad deployed those toxic, gaseous agents upon his own citizens to terrify them into submission and quell any remaining vestiges of dissent.

He has been doing well with Russian and Iranian conventional weaponry. This was simply an act of wanton terrorism on his part and Trump, acting jointly in the interests of himself, the United States and the international community, was perfectly justified in responding to this with a limited strike upon a military target, not least since Assad apparently tried to dupe the world into believing that he had wilfully surrendered his chemical weapons stockpiles, which was obviously a blatant lie to which Russia must have been complicit or else not be in the position of influence with its client state that it has led us to believe.

As Jean-Claude Juncker, President of the EU Commission noted in respect of Trump’s military intervention: “There is a clear distinction between air strikes on military targets and the use of chemical weapons against civilians”.

I regard these missile strikes as limited, proportionate and justifiable.
 
tomarin said:
War is nothing to celebrate but it is sometimes necessary.
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I don’t know. Is it?

I do know it’s celebrated. Mass quantities of human blood, sweat, tears, innovation, energy and treasure are devoted to it. And always have been.

If humanity cannot get over our vicious natures that take such pleasure in harming each other then we deserve to perish. The Earth will be better off without us.

Bah.
 
Questioner2 said:
I don’t know. Is it?

I do know it’s celebrated. Mass quantities of human blood, sweat, tears, innovation, energy and treasure are devoted to it. And always have been.

If humanity cannot get over our vicious natures that take such pleasure in harming each other then we deserve to perish. The Earth will be better off without us.

Bah.
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The Earth would not be better off without us. It would be better if we as a species achieved enlightenment and spiritual maturity under Jesus Christ and God that would enable us to overcome our tendencies towards war and violence. Turning swords into plowshares, so to speak. That is why we await His glorious Second Coming. THEN we would be peaceful forever and ever. :signofcross::gopray2:
 
Vouthon said:
The only sociopath here deriving any perverse pleasure from needlessly killing people is Assad.
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I’m not arguing that Assad is not sociopathic and a monster to his people. Not arguing that a response of some kind when an atrocity such as this occurs is not justified.

How would I know…not my expertise. These are just my impressions.

I just don’t trust the motives of my government. They’re loving this. They’re warmongers.
My country has been mired in ill advised and stupid wars for decades now, and there is no moral high ground for anyone anymore.
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
The Earth would not be better off without us. It would be better if we as a species achieved enlightenment and spiritual maturity under Jesus Christ and God that would enable us to overcome our tendencies towards war and violence. Turning swords into plowshares, so to speak. That is why we await His glorious Second Coming. THEN we would be peaceful forever and ever. :signofcross::gopray2:
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Amen. What beautiful words. Thank you O. M.

I will spend my afternoon praying that this is so and working on the despair and anger in my own heart.
 
Questioner2 said:
I’m not arguing that Assad is not sociopathic and a monster to his people. Not arguing that a response of some kind when an atrocity such as this occurs is not justified.

How would I know…not my expertise. These are just my impressions.

I just don’t trust the motives of my government. They’re loving this. They’re warmongers.
My country has been mired in ill advised and stupid wars for decades now, and there is no moral high ground for anyone anymore.
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I don’t disagree with your sentiments.

What I do believe, nonetheless, is that past executive misdemeanours and costly foreign adventures have deprived a good number of people of the capacity to see when action of a military kind - albeit limited in scope and strategically justified - does warrant being undertaken.
 
omgriley said:
Oh good lord, man! Please, tell me all about the oil the United States plundered from Iraq. That’s a war crime.

Cool it.
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You have your homework cut out for yourself. Good luck with it. It is being taken out from under thru subterranean tunnels into Turkey as I type and American soldiers were used for the whole process, protect, service etc., even though it is American private companies that are benefiting. Google that and good luck with your research. Not something you would necessarily properly be informed about thru the New York Times, CNN, MSNBC et al. But, if you talk to the soldiers that were used and misused they can tell about it. They were treated like third class employees even though they were there to serve their country not oil contractors from Texas. American platoons were stations in area the authorities knew were contaminated with depleted uranium and they almost all died after arrive home. Someone in Washington thought those young men were expendable.
 
Questioner2 said:
I’m not arguing that Assad is not sociopathic and a monster to his people. Not arguing that a response of some kind when an atrocity such as this occurs is not justified.

How would I know…not my expertise. These are just my impressions.

I just don’t trust the motives of my government. They’re loving this. They’re warmongers.
My country has been mired in ill advised and stupid wars for decades now, and there is no moral high ground for anyone anymore.
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I can think of lots of historical examples when the alternative to not going to war is worse than going to war and I’m sure you can too but I don’t want to derail the thread. As Vouthon stated, this action was proportionate and necessary because it makes another such chemical attack on civilians less likely in the future.
 
chero23 said:
Shows the hypocrisy of this president and the hypocrisy of republicans
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Trump is now the President and has access to intel he did not have as a private citizen. He is in a different role now.
 
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