Trump-Mueller tensions escalate

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Joyful_Song said:
Faux allegation? Wouldn’t it be prudent to allow Mueller to finish the investigation before declaring it false? When it doesn’t fit your agenda is it acceptable to say it’s false? For example, Trump declared that polls are correct only if they are in his favour and lies if they are negative.

Knowing the difference between facts and opinions. A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven. Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

If there is irrefutable proof that Trump colluded with the Russians during the election, and if there is proof that he conducts illegal treasonous business will you accept it or deny it because it’s not part of your agenda?
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Please read:
Forget Don Jr.'s email — it’s Hillary Clinton who ‘colluded’ with Russia
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The effort to prove collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government has proven to be little more than a conspiracy theory desperately in search of evidence. With only “rumors… newspapers stories… (but) not necessarily evidence” in the recent words of Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein (Calif), the left has tried to take down President Donald Trump and ignore the issues the American people care about.
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The recent New York Times stories aimed at Donald Trump Jr. are the latest attempt to provide evidence of collusion where none exists. The Times reported Monday that Trump Jr. accepted a meeting with a Russian lawyer after being told that she might provide damaging information about Hillary Clinton that was part of a Russian government effort to aid Trump.
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This micro story about a Trump Jr. meeting with a purported Kremlin-related attorney has been opportunistically harnessed by some to prove a broader, evidence-free, macro story of Trump campaign collusion with Russians in hacking the DNC and releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails to the public. But the micro fails to prove the macro, though the left breathlessly alleges it does.
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thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/media/341493-opinion-forget-don-jrs-email-its-hillary-clinton-who-colluded-with
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Joyful_Song said:
Faux allegation? Wouldn’t it be prudent to allow Mueller to finish the investigation before declaring it false? When it doesn’t fit your agenda is it acceptable to say it’s false? For example, Trump declared that polls are correct only if they are in his favour and lies if they are negative.

Knowing the difference between facts and opinions. A fact is a statement that can be proven true or false. An opinion is an expression of a person’s feelings that cannot be proven. Opinions can be based on facts or emotions and sometimes they are meant to deliberately mislead others.

If there is irrefutable proof that Trump colluded with the Russians during the election, and if there is proof that he conducts illegal treasonous business will you accept it or deny it because it’s not part of your agenda?
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You must not be familiar with how special councils work? I believed that Mueller with his very good reputation would do the right thing. Then he dispels that notion by loading his committee with Clinton supporters and Clinton campaign people. Does that seem in the least bit fair to you. And these committees always feel compelled to find something on which to hand their hats no matter how long it takes.

I am not at all pleased with some of the things Trump is doing, but before I jump on the impeachment bandwagon, I’ll not play the guessing game with his election problems which before the now loaded committee arrived on the scene amounting to nothing.
 
ProVobis said:
This is not central to the case unless there some movement of money in my opinion.
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This case is not required to have a center. Any possibility of a crime, related or not, is fair game.

Donald Trump had to have been told that firing Comey could bring in a special prosecutor, which was a development to be avoided at all costs. He was not wise to ignore that advice. He had a window to fire Comey when he first took office. After that, he really needed for the Russia investigation to be over before acting against Comey. I realize that in theory Trump had every right to fire Comey, but that is political reality. Trump’s supporters ought to be disappointed that he has not been more of a realist than he has been.

I do not think his efforts to shield himself and his family from investigation are going to be successful. The courts are going to want prosecutors to have room to either find something or to conclude they could find nothing. They will not want to give cover for what history may later show to have been an impeachable offense or a criminal offense by a high-ranking White House official.
 
Luke6_37 said:
OMG - you’re absolutely right and I never noticed! If she’s so concerned about “Making America Great Again” perhaps she should live here. Although it must be nice to have publicly funded healthcare.
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Why insult another poster? And as an aside, I have experienced their "publicly funded) i.e. taxpayer funder, healthcare and darn near died. What happened to me there would definitely not have happened in the states. Wish you would do a little more research on socialized medicine before you make definite statements about its benefits.
 
mary_bobo said:
You must not be familiar with how special councils work? I believed that Mueller with his very good reputation would do the right thing. Then he dispels that notion by loading his committee with Clinton supporters and Clinton campaign people. Does that seem in the least bit fair to you. And these committees always feel compelled to find something on which to hand their hats no matter how long it takes.

I am not at all pleased with some of the things Trump is doing, but before I jump on the impeachment bandwagon, I’ll not play the guessing game with his election problems which before the now loaded committee arrived on the scene amounting to nothing.
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The world is pretty much divided between those who hope to find something against the President and those who do not. We don’t have a justice system where the prosecutor’s office tries to be “fair” to the people they’re trying to build a case against. Prosecutors try to build cases that will result in convictions. A prosecutor will naturally select people to work on a case who have a high desire to find something. That’s what he’s trying to do, after all. If he were trying to build a case against Feinstein, be sure he’d find a pack of hounds who have no sympathies for her.
 
mary_bobo said:
Why insult another poster? And as an aside, I have experienced their "publicly funded) i.e. taxpayer funder, healthcare and darn near died. What happened to me there would definitely not have happened in the states. Wish you would do a little more research on socialized medicine before you make definite statements about its benefits.
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I cannot imagine what sort of malpractice definitely could not happen in the States, particularly if someone is in a poor managed-care system or has a health insurance company who doesn’t want to pre-approve anything. Artificial and bureaucratic barriers to the best care do exist here, after all. There are medical horror stories here, too. (Let’s not even get started on the health care realities for those who lack insurance!!)

Individual horror stories happen everywhere. I don’t doubt you are telling the truth. This is evidence that we in the US do not uniformly receive the world’s best health care. Find data to refute it, if you care to do so:
forbes.com/sites/danmunro/2014/06/16/u-s-healthcare-ranked-dead-last-compared-to-10-other-countries/#69740058576f
 
mary_bobo said:
Why insult another poster? And as an aside, I have experienced their "publicly funded) i.e. taxpayer funder, healthcare and darn near died. What happened to me there would definitely not have happened in the states. Wish you would do a little more research on socialized medicine before you make definite statements about its benefits.
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I don’t know what your experience with the Canadian health care (really, health insurance, not health care) system was, and I’m glad it turned out alright in the end.

I’m married to a Canadian, and have spent quite a lot of time with my wife and her family in Canada, and have seen another side of the Canadian system. Her family has received life-saving treatments that would have bankrupted an American family (of equivalent economic means), and lifelong care that might not even be available to a family of equivalent means in the United States.

It is true that there were waits for some treatments, but never for those that were a matter of urgency, and even those waits were attributable to a large extent to the fact that her family lives where my wife grew up, in a remote rural area with limited health care facilities.

Just wanted to say there’s another side to your perspective on Canadian health care.
 
mary_bobo said:
You must not be familiar with how special councils work? I believed that Mueller with his very good reputation would do the right thing. Then he dispels that notion by loading his committee with Clinton supporters and Clinton campaign people. Does that seem in the least bit fair to you. And these committees always feel compelled to find something on which to hand their hats no matter how long it takes.

I am not at all pleased with some of the things Trump is doing, but before I jump on the impeachment bandwagon, I’ll not play the guessing game with his election problems which before the now loaded committee arrived on the scene amounting to nothing.
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I respectfully submit that you are incorrect that Mueller’s committee are Clinton supporters and campaign people.
politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jun/26/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-calls-muellers-special-counsel-clint/
 
mary_bobo said:
You must not be familiar with how special councils work? I believed that Mueller with his very good reputation would do the right thing. Then he dispels that notion by loading his committee with Clinton supporters and Clinton campaign people. Does that seem in the least bit fair to you. And these committees always feel compelled to find something on which to hand their hats no matter how long it takes.

I am not at all pleased with some of the things Trump is doing, but before I jump on the impeachment bandwagon, I’ll not play the guessing game with his election problems which before the now loaded committee arrived on the scene amounting to nothing.
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I am disappointed in Mueller as well for those reasons.

I haven’t seen proof of anything yet that would come close to impeachment.
The media is doing its best to make us think we should regret our vote.
And I am sure some have. I have not reached that point yet. I just wish the
democrats and republicans would want to help instead of wanting to hurt
President Trump. The American people need the government to start moving
forward again!
 
Inisfallen said:
I don’t know what your experience with the Canadian health care (really, health insurance, not health care) system was, and I’m glad it turned out alright in the end.

I’m married to a Canadian, and have spent quite a lot of time with my wife and her family in Canada, and have seen another side of the Canadian system. Her family has received life-saving treatments that would have bankrupted an American family (of equivalent economic means), and lifelong care that might not even be available to a family of equivalent means in the United States.

It is true that there were waits for some treatments, but never for those that were a matter of urgency, and even those waits were attributable to a large extent to the fact that her family lives where my wife grew up, in a remote rural area with limited health care facilities.

Just wanted to say there’s another side to your perspective on Canadian health care.
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If people there are happy with it, that’s their opinion. While living there my husband lost two managers in different parts of the country waiting for by-pass surgery. When my husband was diagnosed in the states, he got the surgery in two days.

I like Canada very much and still have good friends there, but rationing is not what I would call good healthcare. The way things are going, I fear we will end up with single payer here. Then we’ll see how much Americans like it.
 
7_Sorrows said:
I am disappointed in Mueller as well for those reasons.

I haven’t seen proof of anything yet that would come close to impeachment.
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Impeachment may be the only thing left if Trump pardons himself and his aides.
 
mary_bobo said:
If people there are happy with it, that’s their opinion. While living there my husband lost two managers in different parts of the country waiting for by-pass surgery. When my husband was diagnosed in the states, he got the surgery in two days.

I like Canada very much and still have good friends there, but rationing is not what I would call good healthcare. The way things are going, I fear we will end up with single payer here. Then we’ll see how much Americans like it.
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I support medicare for all. It would be cost effective and fair for everyone.
medicareforall.org/pages/Home

Physicians support it too.
pnhp.org/
 
mary_bobo said:
I like Canada very much and still have good friends there, but rationing is not what I would call good healthcare. The way things are going, I fear we will end up with single payer here. Then we’ll see how much Americans like it.
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Your fears are my hopes! There are too many people in the United State who have been left without healthcare entirely for any Christian to claim that the system we have is in any way “superior” to that of any nation that offers free publicly funded healthcare.

I believe James (2:14-26) says it best…

"If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it? So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead…

and then comes the second best line ever of the New Testament…

"…Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?

I’m sure someone would have threatened to report James to the moderators if he wrote that on CAF 😃
 
mary_bobo said:
The way things are going, I fear we will end up with single payer here. Then we’ll see how much Americans like it.
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Why do you fear it? With Medicare you pay about $100 per month, which covers about 80% of your bill and about $200 per month to a private for Supplemental Insurance which covers the rest. If your employer offers a better plan, go for it.

(Of course I didn’t count all the money that is already put into the system from payrolls, but you pay that regardless.)
 
Joyful_Song said:
I respectfully submit that you are incorrect that Mueller’s committee are Clinton supporters and campaign people.
politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2017/jun/26/donald-trump/trump-wrongly-calls-muellers-special-counsel-clint/
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Notice the article is dated almost a month ago. I heard the staff has grown to 14.
Not sure what the numbers is now. In your article 5 of the 8 had some connection to
Clinton. I have no reason to doubt that of the 14, many have ties with Clinton in
some way.
 
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