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Robert_Bay
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MODERATOR REMINDER
Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other
Please charitably discuss the issues, not each other
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Don_Ruggero
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Thank you very much, Mr. Bay.
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josie_L
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No, you accept nothing that doesn’t jive with your preconceived notions, whatever the proof/evidence I were to give you on a silver platter.
Fusion GPS promulgated a dossier that was sourced by Russians and unverified as per the person who put together said dossier (and was not meant to be made public), to media and Democrats. It is also failed to register as a foreign agent when it lobbied against the Magnitsky act on behalf of Russia, while simultaneously working with the Hillary campaign to find dirt on Trump.
Then you have Comey who failed to make public that Trump was not under investigation, despite the fact that he was aware that the NYT article which began the whole Trump/Russia collusion media madness, was a false narrative and he said this before the Senate Intelligence Committee. And then there are the insinuations that Trump was obstructing justice vis a vis investigations of Flynn, which had he really done so, Comey would have been compelled to report (which by the way he hasn’t):
So, if Comey didn’t report, if indeed Trump had obstructed justice, then, he would have broken the law. and will be indicting himself. Moreover, this is the same Comey who acted on Russian intelligence that he knew was fake and usurped the position the DOJ in the Hillary Email scandals.
As for the media, Comey, before the Senate Intelligence Committee, proclaimed that the article by NYT that started the whole Russia/Trump collusion was false.
Need I say more.
As for Schumer (who is part of the Senate Judiciary Committee) , he actually lied to the media/public about Trump being under investigation when he was not.
So if you think I don’t have proof/evidence of bad faith for those involved in the Russia/Trump collusion investigation/narrative, you are WRONG.
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dvdjs
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No. I don’t, as I said, agree with you on the very concept of proof.
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7_Sorrows
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Very typical for this poster. The same thing happens with me. Don’t let it get under your skin.
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dvdjs
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No, with you it is a matter of disagreeing with your mistaken “facts”.
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dvdjs
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Fusion worked on opps research on Trump at the the behest of Republican, then Democratic operatives. I am not sure that your claim that Fusion released information to the media. Instead there are reports that Steele himself released information.
This is a charge by Browder: that Fusions work related to him constituted lobbying and required registration. Browder has testified and Fusion will testify to Senate Committee. We will see where that goes.
Comey had been aware of reports of collusion many months before the NYT article. He had briefed high ranking government officials about the reports. He claimed in testimony that the NYT report was in the main wrong, but has not not called the “narrative” of Trump Russia collusion false. Comey has reported why he told Trump tht it iwas not appropriate for him to make a public disclosure at the time that Trump was not a target of the collusion investigation - which, evidently ongoing at that tie.
Comey testified on this matter. A few politicians and a few more pundits have claimed that he had an obligation to report his suspicions. But that idea doesn’t seem to have much traction, legally. In fact, there is more punditry behind the idea that Trump did nothing wrong - in which cse Comey was obviously under no obligation to report.
Huh?
What was the “act” , and what was t that he “knew” to be fake"? These suggestion are not proven.
The Trump/Russia collusion, and the investigation of it clearly began before the NYT article.
(Please refer back toe the timeline that I linked for you earlier in the thread.) So that idea the the NYT article “started the whole Russia?trump colluson” is mistaken. As noted above, Comey said that the NYT article was not true in the main, but to the best of my knowledge never specified what aspects were wrong. Obviously, it cannot reasonably be said that Comey was stating the the very idea of the collusion or the investigation of the collusion was wrong. He had been investigating it before the Time article came out.
You have a point about Schumer, but he actually parsed his words rather carefully in discussing why Seante should delay on Trump’s SCOTUS appointment. Breitbart offers this example:
Interestingly, Trump was under a cloud. Similarl yhe talked about where the investigation would lead or the hypothetical of what would happen if a Democratic president were under investigation. He was certainly misleading on this point.
I think the construction evidence/proof is interesting. I think that you have some “evidence”, but many intermediate conjectures are not supported by this evidence. Overall, this evidence does not constitute proof or your idea.
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dvdjs
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AND
Most notably, with all of the smoke on Comey, he is not investigating anything. Mueller III and company are conducting the investigation for the DoJ. Not a word on them.
Most notably, with all of the smoke on Comey, he is not investigating anything. Mueller III and company are conducting the investigation for the DoJ. Not a word on them.
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josie_L
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You are putting the cart before the horse, dvdjs, i.e., everything that precedes the Mueller investigation is based on allegations and false narratives, disinformation that can be attributed to the Steele dossier and Democrats/MSM:
I have put throughout this thread and others a hole in the narrative of the Russia/Trump the size of the Grand Canyon. That you refuse to connect the dots and/or believe said sources is indicative of your biases, not the in the difference in our understanding of proof/evidence, although you are right, as I require evidence and an actual crime committed before proceeding to an investigation, and you don’t.
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josie_L
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Wrong, Steele was paid by Hillary Donors via FUSION GPS, in other words, he was hired by Fusion GPS, and it was they who promulgated said dossier.
There is no need for Browder to determine that FUSION GPS did lobby against the Magnitsky act, this is confirmed.
Yes, I am aware of this, and the FBI under Comey used as their source of a Russian/Trump collusion the Steele dossier, they, in fact, even asked Steele to help them further said investigation, but he refused. That Comey actually took this dossier seriously when even Christopher Steele admitted it was from unverified Russian sources is flabbergasting. It has been nigh 9 months if not more, and most of what was claimed in the dossier has not even been verified, and no one has been arrested.
Moreover, if the NYT article were in the main wrong, then that pretty much puts the kibosh on the whole Russia/Trump collusion narrative. You can’t have an article that is in the main wrong and still retain the belief that the Russia/Trump narrative is right, when said article was predicated upon the collusion between Russia/Trump.
He most certainly should have stated to the American people that Trump was not under investigation, and to not do so, only fanned the flames of subjectivity in the media and within the public, and makes him untrustworthy, and not acting in good faith.
Now, proclaiming he was fired because of the Russia investigation,only insinuates one thing in the minds of the public that have already ingested a steady diet of Russia/Trump collusion by the MSM, that Trump was obstructing justice by firing him, because he did not want said probe to continue on.
To have insinuated such, when he knew all along that the Russia/Trump collusion narrative was in the main wrong, defies all reasoning.
He made it look like it was obstruction without outrightly saying it was, because, had he really believed this, HE WOULD NEED TO REPORT SAID OBSTRUCTION, and not doing so would result in his breaking the law.
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steve_b
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So then you also know she and Bill’s position on killing the most defenseless people through unbridled abortion at any and all stages of development.
ontheissues.org/Celeb/Bill_Clinton_Abortion.htm
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7_Sorrows
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Didn’t John McCain have a role in this dossier? Didn’t he actually fly somewhere to
pick it up?
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Don_Ruggero
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I have read biographies of both President and Mrs. Clinton.
I have had a particular interest in the role that her faith as a Methodist has played in her life, actually.
I have also read this moderator warning from Mr. Bay, concerning how people are to conduct themselves in this forum, particularly with regard to news makers and the sincerity of the faith they hold and live, a monition which he addressed in yet another moderator notice…
…I don’t think the declaration Do not pass judgement on the spiritual well being of anyone could be any clearer; it provides excellent direction for behaviour in the forum.
President and Mrs. Clinton were cordially welcomed in their visits to the Vatican just as the Ambassadors sent by the Clinton Administration were warmly received as part of the diplomatic corps accredited to the Holy See.
Both President and Mrs. Clinton, in their turn, warmly and cordially welcomed Pope Saint John Paul II and his entourage during his visits to the United States – because that is how civilised people behave in civilised society…something a facet of the citizenry of the United States evidence being in danger of losing sight of.
Finally: Why do you continue to address me after the moderator clearly said above in post #535:
I should think that directive is transparently clear.
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M-Dent
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-a...Shot_2017_05_24_at_3_05_11_AM.png&w=320&h=180
President and Mrs. Trump were cordially welcomed in their visits to the Vatican as well.
President and Mrs. Trump were cordially welcomed in their visits to the Vatican as well.
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Don_Ruggero
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Indeed. As were President and Mrs. Obama and President and Mrs. Bush before them. Presidential visits to Vatican City and Papal visits to the United States are occasions of cordiality.
The envoys sent by the American presidents to the Holy See have quite well represented the interests of the United States government and the American people.
I am not sure, however, how warmly this diversion may be greeted by this page’s moderator. It seems a bit afield from “Trump-Mueller tensions escalate”
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2_RollinStoned
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dvdjs
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LOL. But that ship has sailed. We have a special counsel investigating the case. It is his character that imporant toe the administration of justice.
Yes that is your theory. That is is falsified by the actual chronology of events seems not to matter to you.
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dvdjs
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Don’t be so hasty. Steele was hired by Fusion GPS but that was not the matter being discussed, which was who spread the dossier? Fusion GPS would certainly give results to the operative who paid them. After that, thery would have no interest, and likely would have been forbidden by contract to further disseminate. We do know that Steele provided information to the FBI, outside of his reporting to Fusion GPS, we don know that McCain ecieved the dossier, not from Fusion GPS, band passed it tot he FBI.
This is a great example of why I say we disagree on the very concept of proof. What do you mean that his lobbying as we discussed has been confirmed"? Fusion GPS has made a strong public denial of the charge. There has been no conviction of Fusion GPS on its failure to register, in fact, there has been no criminal accusation by an authorized arm of the government. So what on earth do you mean by confirmed?
Moreover it is not up to Browder in any case to make a determination. That is for the legal system.
The verification of the contents of the dossier is not important, as there is full fledged investigation at this point.
No you can’t. First, it is not at all clear just what Comey specifically meant, meant, but he clearly did not mean that the whole idea of Russian collusion with people on the Trump team was false. He was continuing the investigation until fired and supported the continuation of the investigation after he was fired. The NYT rechecked it story with its sources. Their assessment was that the matter was a semantical one over the use of the word terms used to describe the Russian contacts. Aside from that, what we have learned in the ensuing months since publication supports that NYT story, in the main.
He explained his judgement on the matter openly to Trump and in t testimony. You may diagree with his judgment, but it is unfair to say that that made him untrustworthy.
It was Trump’s own statement the interview with Holt that consolidated that meme.
It is your reasoning that fails. Comey said that the article was in the main wrong. You shift that to a claim that the entire narrative is wrong. With that in mind, you have … Comey is a villain, the American system of justice is corrrupted, … Occam’s razor would have it, however, that you reconsider your interpretation of Comey’s remark about the NYT article;. you might even have a look at their response.
LOCK HIM UP
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steve_b
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Re: #535
It’s about discussing one another and not the issue. And it’s clear.
It’s clear, I was giving information about one Clinton in particular. And who she is by what she does and who she supports. I did that, by using all public information, and it was all properly referenced materials. Those materials have been removed however.
To make the point crystal clear, Here’s another reference, from a great saint to our country
St JPII the Great, before the Clinton’s got into the White House wrote the following in this farewell speech to America
Excerpt
“pursuing disarmament, while guaranteeing legitimate defence; all this will succeed ***only if ***respect for life and its protection by the law is granted to every human being from conception until natural death. Every human person - no matter how vulnerable or helpless, no matter how young or how old, no matter how healthy, handicapped or sick, no matter how useful or productive for society - is a being of inestimable worth created in the image and likeness of God. This is the dignity of America, the reason she exists, ***the condition for her survival-yes, *the ultimate test of her greatness: to respect every human person, especially the weakest and most defenceless ones, those as yet unborn.” **
w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/speeches/1987/september/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19870919_congedo-stati-uniti.html
Do you see that conditional statement? The Clinton’s as elected officials of this country fail in that category as well as many in this country who support them. Both of them. And their efforts to continually support the law of abortion at any stage of life is on the record as is their party platform. They have not changed. I merely showed the record, properly referenced. That is, and was, my point.
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Don_Ruggero
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This post is reported to the Moderator.
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