Trump or Hillary?

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john1513 said:
Key findings so far:
  • Over 1/3 of the votes are not going to Trump or Clinton
  • Most on this thread are conservative
  • More conservatives would vote for Clinton than liberals for Trump.
My ruling: Clinton wins this scenario.

This seems prevalent throughout the country too: Trump wins a lazy Republican primary by a landslide, loses to Clinton in the general election, Republicans are politically exiled for another 8 years. All too familiar story.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for Republican voters and politicians to articulate and support compelling ideas and proposals. The same song and dance has been trotted out the past 8 years and Democrats laugh all the way to the White House.
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I disagree with some of your analysis, but I’ll focus on the last point. My take is the Republicans are better as an opposition party than actually running the government. It’s easy to criticize every single thing that President Obama has done. It’s harder to actually run the country. The Republicans aren’t articulating ideas on how they’ll run the country yet. Hopefully, we’ll get there.
 
john1513 said:
Key findings so far:
  • Over 1/3 of the votes are not going to Trump or Clinton
  • Most on this thread are conservative
  • More conservatives would vote for Clinton than liberals for Trump.
My ruling: Clinton wins this scenario.

This seems prevalent throughout the country too: Trump wins a lazy Republican primary by a landslide, loses to Clinton in the general election, Republicans are politically exiled for another 8 years. All too familiar story.

I don’t know why it’s so hard for Republican voters and politicians to articulate and support compelling ideas and proposals. The same song and dance has been trotted out the past 8 years and Democrats laugh all the way to the White House.
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The problem isn’t with those who’d vote for Trump but with someone who would vote for someone with a record like Clinton.
 
Crossbones said:
So, based on the topic at hand, your point is that the Republicans do not have to articulate a policy on how they are going to govern? I don’t think that’ll work.
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Sounds like your point and rather odd as we see.

My point is that Obama hope wasn’t a plan nor did he articulate a plan but hope, and his propaganda isn’t either. I don’t think that has worked and your double standard is a failure. But then again you know that.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Sounds like your point and rather odd as we see.

My point is that Obama hope wasn’t a plan nor did he articulate a plan but hope, and his propaganda isn’t either. I don’t think that has worked and your double standard is a failure. But then again you know that.
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So, you don’t think Republicans have a plan?
 
FractalFire said:
Suppose that Trump wins the Republican nomination and Hillary wins the Democratic nomination. (You can discuss how likely this in in the comments, if you want; for now, just run a thought experiment with me.) Would you vote for Trump or Hillary? Would you abandon your current party or typical voting block to do so?
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Hillary.
 
Faith1960 said:
Hillary.
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I would vote for Trump over Hillary. I would vote for the 1,001 listed name in the New York City phone book before Hillary.

I will not support an abortion supporter. Is Trump one? I don’t know, but he would have no chance of re-election if he acted that way, and one suspects he would be mindful of that. Hillary on the other hand is dyed-in-the-wool for abortion and we know for sure what she will do.

Who is the more corrupt? Well, having inherited some, Trump made his own money. Perhaps it was always honestly, perhaps he cut corners. But if he made it by selling out his own country, we would already know about it. And we don’t. Hillary on the other hand has made millions by selling influence as Secretary of State. And if she becomes president, how much more can she sell us out for money? A lot.

Is Trump a super-hawk, a war-monger? No, he isn’t. Hillary is, as she amply demonstrated not only in her support of a war on Libya without even telling Congress about it. And I, for one, thought her “I came. I saw. Quadaffi died” and that hideous cackle were absolutely creepy. I would rather the president of the U.S. was not one who enjoyed killing so much.
 
Crossbones said:
So, you don’t think Republicans have a plan?
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Republicans don’t have a plan? I guess no one has watched any of the five GOP debates?

It is too early to hear of a single cohesive plan that represents the party. We still do not know which candidate will represent the GOP? However, if you watched the last Democratic debate, Trumps name was mentioned a dozen times. You may also note that no other GOP hopeful was mentioned. My assumption is that Democrat’s want their opponent to be Trump; he shoots his mouth off way too easy and I am not certain that he can attract a younger crowd? Needless to mention, Democrats feel they can win against Trump.

Trump’s slogan; “Make America Great Again” hits home with many people. Americans have seen jobs shipped overseas while being overly depended on the retailer & lower paying sectors. The banks being rescued and being allowed to grow even bigger than before the crises is a big issue for me. Many of the topics he brings up strikes a chord that angers voters. My worry is with how he presents the issues.

One subject that the Democrats have mentioned on multiple occasions is gun violence. In this last year, we have seen way too many encounters involving the use of a gun. They have also pointed out that you have not heard a “peep” from the Republicans.

Also, on the subject of not hearing a “peep”; Abortion, no one has brought up the subject. That is only an indicator that we will see another presidential cycle without any amendment to overturn this permissible tragedy.
 
Path_Finder said:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=988204 ( Forming Consciences For Faithful Citizenship [with Voter’s Guidence] )

There are always issues set forth as of more primary importance and some of our other judgments are subjective in themselves.
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They mention just war and torture in the latest “Forming Consciences…” voter’s guide. They also encourage the reader to take the document in whole and not cherry pick certain parts, so I try not to do that.
 
Leo2014 said:
Republicans don’t have a plan? I guess no one has watched any of the five GOP debates?
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I’ve watched a few of the debates and don’t get a great sense of a plan, though I agree with you that there is time to form this.
 
Crossbones said:
So, you don’t think Republicans have a plan?
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A major difference between the parties is that the Republicans do not believe in a planned economy the way the Democrats do. It is not the job of the President to run the economy; it is his job to run one of three equal branches of a government. The reason our government exists can be stated in a single paragraph:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Promoting the general welfare is not the same as promoting the particular welfare of people who defy reason and common sense and then use political power to take from from their neighbors who made better choices.
 
Trader said:
A major difference between the parties is that the Republicans do not believe in a planned economy the way the Democrats do. It is not the job of the President to run the economy; it is his job to run one of three equal branches of a government. The reason our government exists can be stated in a single paragraph:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Promoting the general welfare is not the same as promoting the particular welfare of people who defy reason and common sense and then use political power to take from from their neighbors who made better choices.
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Except that the Democrats don’t do it either. What have the Dems done for the truly poor; the ones who can’t help themselves, and particularly when they had all power in their hands? Nothing at all.

What they did do is pass Obamacare, which puts more people on Medicaid who previously had health insurance, and cause one part of the middle class to subsidize another part of the middle class.

But for the truly poor? Well, there was “cash for clunkers”; a subsidy to people wealthy enough to buy new cars, and which resulted in the destruction of cars the poor rely on to get to work, to the doctor, etc.

It’s all middle class redistribution. All of it.

The very last thing either party did for the truly poor was the Earned Income Credit, and that was Reagan’s.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Except that the Democrats don’t do it either. What have the Dems done for the truly poor; the ones who can’t help themselves, and particularly when they had all power in their hands? Nothing at all.
\s.
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Kept them voting Democrat 👍
 
Ridgerunner said:
Except that the Democrats don’t do it either. What have the Dems done for the truly poor; the ones who can’t help themselves, and particularly when they had all power in their hands? Nothing at all.

What they did do is pass Obamacare, which puts more people on Medicaid who previously had health insurance, and cause one part of the middle class to subsidize another part of the middle class.

But for the truly poor? Well, there was “cash for clunkers”; a subsidy to people wealthy enough to buy new cars, and which resulted in the destruction of cars the poor rely on to get to work, to the doctor, etc.

It’s all middle class redistribution. All of it.

The very last thing either party did for the truly poor was the Earned Income Credit, and that was Reagan’s.
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I never meant to say the Democrats had a plan that worked; only that they talk about a plan. The current plan is to retain/regain power by promising free tuition, debt relief, affordable health care, and free _________(fill in the blank) for people who vote for them to be paid for by the tooth fairy after they confiscate the wealth of “the rich.”

One of the things government can do for the poor is to promote rather than restrict religious liberty so that faith based organizations can serve and educate poor people while remaining faithful to their core beliefs.
 
Trader said:
I never meant to say the Democrats had a plan that worked; only that they talk about a plan. The current plan is to retain/regain power by promising free tuition, debt relief, affordable health care, and free _________(fill in the blank) for people who vote for them to be paid for by the tooth fairy after they confiscate the wealth of “the rich.”

One of the things government can do for the poor is to promote rather than restrict religious liberty so that faith based organizations can serve and educate poor people while remaining faithful to their core beliefs.
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As I’m sure you know, Catholic organizations are increasingly excluded from grants because they won’t refer for abortions.

But there’s plenty of money for abortions.
 
Ridgerunner said:
As I’m sure you know, Catholic organizations are increasingly excluded from grants because they won’t refer for abortions.

But there’s plenty of money for abortions.
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That is a big problem, but only one of many. Another is the penchant for this administration to sue religious schools for enforcing their employment contracts.

Still another is the HHS mandate that could bankrupt organizations like the Little Sisters of the Poor.

It remains to be seen how far this or future administrations can push the acceptance of same sex “marriage” to the point that marriage is destroyed altogether, at least as a civil institution. In the US the number one cause of poverty is the choice to disrespect marriage.
 
Trader said:
That is a big problem, but only one of many. Another is the penchant for this administration to sue religious schools for enforcing their employment contracts.

Still another is the HHS mandate that could bankrupt organizations like the Little Sisters of the Poor.

It remains to be seen how far this or future administrations can push the acceptance of same sex “marriage” to the point that marriage is destroyed altogether, at least as a civil institution. In the US the number one cause of poverty is the choice to disrespect marriage.
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I agree with you entirely.
 
Trader said:
A major difference between the parties is that the Republicans do not believe in a planned economy the way the Democrats do. It is not the job of the President to run the economy; it is his job to run one of three equal branches of a government. The reason our government exists can be stated in a single paragraph:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Promoting the general welfare is not the same as promoting the particular welfare of people who defy reason and common sense and then use political power to take from from their neighbors who made better choices.
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You can say that, but it isn’t clear what the Republicans will be running on. That’s all I’m saying.
 
Crossbones said:
You can say that, but it isn’t clear what the Republicans will be running on. That’s all I’m saying.
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So whos plan do you think is most rational? 🙂 I haven’t heard any good plans or seen any from either side. You?
 
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