Trump or Hillary?

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I am very much “pro-life” --therefore I definitely could not vote for Hillary!!!
 
queenofheartscv said:
Can you also say which US leader your world has respected? I’m curious.
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Kennedy certainly was. Whatever about his personal/moral failings, he showed (many think) great diplomacy during the Cuba crisis and averted nuclear disaster.

I know I will be flamed for saying it… because he was a Democrat.

I think the only President who really wasn’t respected - and I’m speaking as a “world citizen”, not personally - was GW Bush.
 
ATeNumquam said:
Kennedy certainly was. Whatever about his personal/moral failings, he showed (many think) great diplomacy during the Cuba crisis and averted nuclear disaster.

I know I will be flamed for saying it… because he was a Democrat.

I think the only President who really wasn’t respected - and I’m speaking as a “world citizen”, not personally - was GW Bush.
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You can also say Kennedy caused the Cuban Missile Crisis when he allowed the Bay of Pigs invasion (initially planned under Eisenhower)

Kennedy also got us into Vietnam.

I think he was a man of his times though, I think he did fine and was an inspirational speaker/leader.
 
ATeNumquam said:
I think the only President who really wasn’t respected - and I’m speaking as a “world citizen”, not personally - was GW Bush.
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He was, perhaps more than most because of his background with the state department.

I do not think there ever has been a President the was not both respected and vilified as an important world leader since the turn of the Twentieth Century. Your remark about him being a Democrat is insightful. Our perspective of what the world thinks is more often colored by our own politics than what the world really thinks, as if there is such an animal.
 
ATeNumquam said:
Kennedy certainly was. Whatever about his personal/moral failings, he showed (many think) great diplomacy during the Cuba crisis and averted nuclear disaster.

I know I will be flamed for saying it… because he was a Democrat.

I think the only President who really wasn’t respected - and I’m speaking as a “world citizen”, not personally - was GW Bush.
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Can you also share what your world thinks of Hillary Clinton?
 
ATeNumquam said:
I think the only President who really wasn’t respected - and I’m speaking as a “world citizen”, not personally - was GW Bush.
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And Jimmy Carter was?

But, of course, “the world” gave Obama the Nobel Peace Prize before he did anything at all. One truly wonders about the criteria “the world” uses in judging American presidents.

I can, however, see how the elites of the world could get themselves there, particularly when it comes to George Bush. Very possibly they didn’t know how prolife he was and what he did pursuing that, or perhaps they did and hated him for that very reason.
 
Bush, popular in Africa.

Popular in not leaving our friends out to dry.

I think it is all down to perspective and background.
 
Speaking as a world citizen, I have respect for GWB, and none whatsoever for Obama or Jimmy Carter.

I do have admiration for Bill Clinton as a politician, because he was astute enough to work with Gingrich and did not make his perfect the enemy of the good.

So that is what the world thinks, I guess, since I am a world citizen.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Speaking as a world citizen, I have respect for GWB, and none whatsoever for Obama or Jimmy Carter.

I do have admiration for Bill Clinton as a politician, because he was astute enough to work with Gingrich and did not make his perfect the enemy of the good.

So that is what the world thinks, I guess, since I am a world citizen.
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Bush has done great things in Africa targeting AIDs, mostly ignored by the US Press.
 
Theo520 said:
Bush has done great things in Africa targeting AIDs, mostly ignored by the US Press.
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washingtonpost.com/opinions/eugene-robinson-george-w-bushs-greatest-legacy–his-battle-against-aids/2012/07/26/gJQAumGKCX_story.html
When the Bush administration inaugurated the program in 2003, fewer than 50,000 HIV-infected people on the African continent were receiving the antire*troviral drugs that keep the virus in check and halt the progression toward full-blown AIDS. By the time Bush left office, the number had increased to nearly 2 million. Today, the United States is directly supporting antiretroviral treatment for more than 4 million men, women and children worldwide, primarily in Africa.
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This is an amazing accomplishment, especially because it wasn’t supposed to be possible.
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Bush’s initial multibillion-dollar commitment to PEPFAR was not really justifiable on grounds of national security, except perhaps in the broadest possible sense. The administration was motivated instead by altruism. It was the right thing to do.
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But if Africa is gaining ground against AIDS, history will note that it was Bush, more than any other individual, who turned the tide.
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Bush was an instrument of God’s love, for sure.
 
I know this thread is about Trump and Clinton … but just for a moment imagine that it’s about Trump and Obama. Did anyone notice that it was the latter that Chris Christie hugged, even though he’s endorsing the former’s bid for President?
 
St_Pancake said:
It’s the Trump and Sanders supporters that will be the ones to change the stagnation that the party establishments have imposed on us. The party establishments have not been good for the country for the longest time and supporting another establishment candidate doesn’t help.

A bad republican, whether it is Trump or Bush or Rubio or Romney or McCain or fill in the blank isn’t much better than a democrat. I think the Trump vote is the electorate rebelling against the establishment and that is a first step toward a solution. I wouldn’t vote for Trump and it isn’t likely I would vote for the rest of those I mentioned either.

If we keep voting for bad choices, we will never get good choices.
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Just because someone is not establishment does not make them good. I get the Bernie love even though he is to pro choice for me. But he seems to mean well.

Trump though is divisive and playing on America’s worst instincts.
 
Trump scares the heck out of me. I don’t think I would let him babysit my kids, much less control the nuclear football.
Someone had a good suggestion: a Rubio/Kasich ticket, and nominate Ted Cruz to the Supreme Court. I would go for that.
Hilary is the last person on the planet I would vote for.

.
 
bekalc said:
Just because someone is not establishment does not make them good. I get the Bernie love even though he is to pro choice for me. But he seems to mean well.

Trump though is divisive and playing on America’s worst instincts.
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I agree about Trump. Bernie has been a socialist all of his life. There is no way his policies would work in our country with the budget problems we have already. What he has to say appeals to people who do not dig deep because he promises a bed of roses for all. Life is not like that. We don’t need an “old hippy” for president.
 
Bernie may mean well. All socialists mean well. That is where the label ‘bleeding heart’ comes in.
For heaven, intent is sufficient. It is enough that Bernie means well for him to be considered a good person.
For life on earth and the here and now, it is exponentially more important to do well than to mean well. To mean well is not enough.
“The road to hell is paved with good intentions” is not a Biblical or a Catholic nugget of wisdom. It is wisdom nevertheless, based in the hard experience of how people who think with their hearts inevitably ruin everything.

Bernie Sanders may well be a saint, and Donald Trump is definitely a crass, classless snake oil salesman who plays on the anger of Americans in an attempt to divide and conquor.

Nevertheless, Bernie Sanders is the more dangerous choice of the two.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Bernie may mean well. All socialists mean well. That is where the label ‘bleeding heart’ comes in.
For heaven, intent is sufficient. It is enough that Bernie means well for him to be considered a good person.
For life on earth and the here and now, it is exponentially more important to do well than to mean well. To mean well is not enough.
“The road to hell is paved with good intentions” is not a Biblical or a Catholic nugget of wisdom. It is wisdom nevertheless, based in the hard experience of how people who think with their hearts inevitably ruin everything.

Bernie Sanders may well be a saint, and Donald Trump is definitely a crass, classless snake oil salesman who plays on the anger of Americans in an attempt to divide and conquor.

Nevertheless, Bernie Sanders is the more dangerous choice of the two.
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Bernie is not advocating hate toward other groups of people. I won’t vote for him but Sweden is not the Soviet Union.

Hitler was awful to you know.
 
bekalc said:
Bernie is not advocating hate toward other groups of people. I won’t vote for him but Sweden is not the Soviet Union.

Hitler was awful to you know.
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I never said that Bernie was advocating hate towards any other group.

I know that Hitler was awful.

And so is socialism.
 
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