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exnihilo
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Madeline Albright. Who should have invaded to stop the US from killing civilians back then? Would you willingly submit to that justice and praise it?
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Victoria33
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Okay, I do know of this situation. I am not sure if half a million died in that manner. I read this interview some time ago where President Clinton denied this was happening to this extent. Also, I may well not have been for the Iraq war, back then, I’d watch the news. I wasn’t really connected to the internet much at that time to give opinions. Saddam thought Kuwait was basically hurting Iraq’s oil production. Again, I’m not going to get to into detail in history.
Bill Clinton Loses His Cool in Democracy Now! Interview on Everything But Monica: Leonard Peltier, Racial Profiling, Iraqi Sanctions, Ralph Nader, the Death Penalty and Israel-Palestine
Former President Clinton’s memoirs have hit bookstores across the country. All three editions of the 1,000-page book — the abridged, the large print and the regular version — are in the top-ten bestseller list of online bookseller Amazon.com. The cable networks have already begun their orgy of...
www.democracynow.org
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Roseeurekacross
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You guys are out of Afghanistan too
www.bbc.com
President Trump 'to pull thousands of troops' from Afghanistan
Taliban control has only increased in recent months, and analysts say this could be "devastating".
www.bbc.com
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AlNg
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This sounds a bit racist to me. Japanese children do not deserve to have their lives snuffed out by Americans dropping an atomic bomb on them.
I am all for pulling American troops out of Syria, Afghanistan, and other places as well. However, I am not sure it will actually occur.
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MonteRCMS
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9/11 changed everything.
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Victoria33
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Tell that to the people of Nanking and Pearl Harbor for that matter, read up on Japanese war crimes in the Philippines, China, Korea, Southeast Asia and so on.
It’s revolting to be accused of racism (ad hom remark against the rules), to throw the race card into a discussion, to shame and intimidate others. . Kindly do not address me again as I respect others’ dignity, not indignify them. That seems an abusive and a weak shallow way to discuss issues.
Might as well accuse one of racism for wanting us to pull our troops and abandon our Kurdish allies who defeated ISIS with US help. ISIS, one of the greatest evils since World War II and it’s difficult to see how some saying what a great decision this is, would allow terrorism and persecution of Christians for one, to flourish. That’s how much reasoning that seems to be.
We lost a half million men in World War II and one throws out an argument that would get more killed? Now, who is racist?
It’s pretty clear, many children are refugees, many children have died in Syria, some from US bombs but we aren’t using bombs that have no other value than to attack civilians with barrel bombs which is what the regime uses. Now? I could say the same to those who don’t want our presence there.
For that matter, I’d put my record for voting for pro-life politicians next to anyone if one is so concerned about childrern’s lives being snuffed out, I gather one is never voting for politicians that enable abortion. Let alone, abortion rates and laws that see minorities aborted at much higher rates than whites. I guess, every pro-choicer seems to have something to do with racism.
Though, I don’t agree with Barack Obama always, he asked previously, why we weren’t as concerned with Congo where millions have died in an extended period war. Good question.
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The problem is they can come here, and California would protect them from federal agents under their SB 54 law
Until progressives here stop protecting foreign nationals here illegally, it seems we have to get them “over there”.
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Convert3
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The war was lost because of a lack of commitment by the government to outright win the war by going into Vietnam. The lack of will by the American people to continue the war after 58,000 dead with no commitment to finish the job convinced the government to pull out.
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Victoria33
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We don’t abandon allies, especially those who have defeated Nazi-dimension evils as the Kurds who supported us. They beat ISIS, let’s not abandon them.
https://www.ernst.senate.gov/public...ecord_id=F11C5D14-70E7-479F-BDEB-9F274BB3294B
A lot of military experience from Senators Cotton, Graham and Ernst for those who would assert they know the best thing to do.
The USA would not have won World War II all by ourselves.
The USA would not be a nation without help from the French and any competent historian will tell you that.
https://www.ernst.senate.gov/public...ecord_id=F11C5D14-70E7-479F-BDEB-9F274BB3294B
A lot of military experience from Senators Cotton, Graham and Ernst for those who would assert they know the best thing to do.
The USA would not have won World War II all by ourselves.
The USA would not be a nation without help from the French and any competent historian will tell you that.
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Convert3
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Seriously? You may be reading too much left wing garbage. As a veteran I’m offended by people that believe this garbage. We did nuke two Japanese cities with atomic bombs, which cost many less lives than an invasion of Japan would have cost.
Where did you get your numbers on a half million children being killed in the Iraq war? That is flat out untrue. There weren’t that many casualties in the war. There are wide ranges of estimates on the number of casualties, but even the highest estimate isn’t a half million for all deaths Our country has spent billions on precision weapons to minimize civilian deaths. The men and women in our military are good people fighting to protect not only our freedoms, but those of the civilians in those countries we’re fighting.
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exnihilo
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So how many children were killed by the US? The number is only part of the point. The main point is the US Secretary of State thought killing that many number of children was worth it. If the US were a foreign country the US could bomb it with the same justification it uses for other attacks.
Well unfortunately the US is doomeded along with the rest of Christendom. We will ultimately have killed ourself.
I’m the most conservative person I know. The left wing has been supporting war for a long time. The anti war folks come from both sides.
This was about the sanctions after the war. Maybe the folks who don’t know these very important facts need to go learn more about our war machine. The facts don’t paint good picture.
They are a mixed bag. They don’t protect freedom. They do the will of the powers that be who run our government. My freedom isn’t threatened by foreign nations. My freedom is in fact restrained by my own government. If they were protecting my freedom they’d start at home.
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AlNg
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Left wing garbarge?
Please see:
Dropping the Atomic Bomb Was Wrong. Period.
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Victoria33
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This is about pulling out of Syria. I see little reason to go over these events from 25 years ago in this thread.
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Victoria33
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Good post Convent3.
Let me clarify something of which they are saying, it has long been said sanctions harmed children so in fact, what they are referring to is pre-2003-Iraq-liberation. They are talking more about the '90s and with no shooting war going on. THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT SANCTIONS.
Other than that, there clearly is the issue on whether we are doing the right thing by pulling out.
“Breaking News”, it’s being reported in some venues, Rojava News (Kurdish News) that Saudi Arabia and other Gulf States are saying they will send troops to replace the American ones (which number 2000 by the way, not a great number).
Discussions on Hiroshima (more people were killed in bombing in Dresden I’ve heard before) and Osake, etc. seems way off topic, so are the causes of the Iraq war. That is a topic of itself.
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Convert3
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The casualties in Nagasaki were similar to those in the battle of Okinawa, a battle that lasted 82 days. Iwo Jima was also a costly battle. President Truman was faced with a difficult decision when making the decision to use the atomic bomb. His responsibility was to limit the number of casualties by ending the war. His responsibility was to the American people. Looking back in history and judging what was right or wrong, is easy to do. Being the person that had to decide whether to save American lives by using the bomb or risk hundreds of thousands more lives, military and civilian, is not so easy. Don’t judge something you have no clue how it would have turned out if a different path had been taken.
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AlNg
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I am only quoting from Roman Catholic sources:
In a 2010 letter to President Obama, Cardinal George, then USCCB President, wrote that the use of the atomic bomb as a weapon of war is rejected in Church teaching based on just war norms.
The use of nuclear weapons can “never be morally justified”, the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of England and Wales has said in a statement ahead of Parliament’s vote on whether to renew Trident, Britain’s nuclear weapons programme. July 2016.
CCC
2314 "Every act of war directed to the indiscriminate destruction of whole cities or vast areas with their inhabitants is a crime against God and man, which merits firm and unequivocal condemnation." A danger of modern warfare is that it provides the opportunity to those who possess modern scientific weapons especially atomic, biological, or chemical weapons - to commit such crimes.
And of course, there is the article I referred to above posted on Catholic Answers:
Dropping the Atomic Bomb Was Wrong. Period.
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Victoria33
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There’s a lot to consider and most of us may not have been alive at the time even.
Did people know the Nazis were in hot pursuit of trying to build their own atomic bomb? Does anyone doubt they would have used such?
The USA got the uranium we needed for our bombs from Congo, apparently, the Nazis were also trying to obtain uranium from the Congo.
www.newsweek.com
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/studies/vol-60-no-4/spies-in-the-congo.html
There are many complex matters here.
I’d also urge everyone, to discuss this in a calm demeanor. It is almost year end, none of us, need to sit out until the new year.
I"m very concerned about matters in the Congo, whether we treated the people of that country fairly, as I said, that is a country that still seems to suffer greatly. For now, this isn’t the thread for me to do that. Anyone else is welcome to speak on the matter.
The Nazis would have used these weapons, I have little doubt, a group like ISIS would use these kinds of WMDs as well.
For the record, the Japanese I believe also had their “weapons of mass destruction” project, I think it is some number of something that it is called. Let it suffice, some of these enemies surely, would have had little reservation to use these weapons on us.
Did people know the Nazis were in hot pursuit of trying to build their own atomic bomb? Does anyone doubt they would have used such?
The USA got the uranium we needed for our bombs from Congo, apparently, the Nazis were also trying to obtain uranium from the Congo.
Congolese Uranium, Nazi Germany and the A-Bomb Race
The untold story of the wartime dash to obtain Congo's uranium, crucial to the atomic bomb.
www.newsweek.com
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-...s/studies/vol-60-no-4/spies-in-the-congo.html
There are many complex matters here.
I’d also urge everyone, to discuss this in a calm demeanor. It is almost year end, none of us, need to sit out until the new year.
I"m very concerned about matters in the Congo, whether we treated the people of that country fairly, as I said, that is a country that still seems to suffer greatly. For now, this isn’t the thread for me to do that. Anyone else is welcome to speak on the matter.
The Nazis would have used these weapons, I have little doubt, a group like ISIS would use these kinds of WMDs as well.
For the record, the Japanese I believe also had their “weapons of mass destruction” project, I think it is some number of something that it is called. Let it suffice, some of these enemies surely, would have had little reservation to use these weapons on us.
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exnihilo
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The past is relevant. For instance the US lied about the Gulf of Tonkin incident. They made up a story of being attacked. This is what ramped up the Vietnam war. Since the military of the US has proven to lie in the past what would make you think them trustworthy today? Since they have themselves killed lots of civilians in the past what makes you think they find civilians so precious today?
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MonteRCMS
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Was that the plan?
To spend BILLIONS of dollars on radical new technology to snuff out Japanese children on a Monday morning … children who were minding their own business?
[Both Germany and Japan were working on building atomic bombs. Japan had two nuclear weapons laboratories; the Army lab in Tokyo was burned out in a B-29 attack; the Navy lab in Wonson was captured by the Russians; the Japanese built three I-400 submarines each of which carried three bomber aircraft. Germany had several nuclear laboratories; they had bombers that could reach the United States; a U.S. spy was sent to evaluate the German program and if necessary to assassinate the key scientist.]
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Victoria33
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Because the story isn’t on that and its off-topic. Talk all you want about it but this is the now, it’s about not abandoning our allies including Christians. One can have whatever view they want on that but I am not for forsaking our Christian brothers and Sisters and strengthening our enemies. I think most if not everyone here knows, the US’s record is not as white as driven snow.
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