Trump Thread (cont.)

[Erich]

I see the actual count was 600 requests. The below story really highlights her leadership skills, how effectively she manages her responsibilities.
More Than 600 Benghazi Security Requests Never Reached Clinton’s Desk, But Reports on Libya from Her ‘Friend’ Did

I don’t think Ambassadors were allowed to contact her directly, everyone worked through her assistants. Even foreign Prime Ministers had to work through the system before there was direct contact.

Yes, I expect Trump will not ignore Benghazi as it pertains to her ability to lead and manage.

 

[Robert_Bay]

MODERATOR NOTICE

This thread is wandering. Please keep on the topic of the Donald Trump campaign.

 

[TMC]

Returning to Trump…

What do his supporters think of his campaign’s admission that he has been play acting thus far and that we will see a different Trump in the general election? If he changes significantly, would that change your support?

 

[Ridgerunner]

Returning to Trump…

What do his supporters think of his campaign’s admission that he has been play acting thus far and that we will see a different Trump in the general election? If he changes significantly, would that change your support?

I have not seen the actual words spoken, only reports of how someone took them.

There seem to be different versions of what was leaked out of a private meeting between some trump campaign person and some RNC people.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Returning to Trump…

What do his supporters think of his campaign’s admission that he has been play acting thus far and that we will see a different Trump in the general election? If he changes significantly, would that change your support?

I never supported Trump, but had I, I would stop supporting if he changed his persona. How would I know which was “real” and which was “play acting?” Trump is not believable, not credible.

 

[TMC]

I have not seen the actual words spoken, only reports of how someone took them.

There seem to be different versions of what was leaked out of a private meeting between some trump campaign person and some RNC people.

I believe a transcript is out. The quote I heard was that Trump has been “playing a part” and that the part will now be “evolving.”

I realize that The Donald has denied that the quote means anything. But my question is whether Trump supporters will care if he does shift to the center for the general. I ask because I am not sure they will care, because they are not necessarily policy driven. But I thought it worth asking the question.

 

[adowcday]

Returning to Trump…

What do his supporters think of his campaign’s admission that he has been play acting thus far and that we will see a different Trump in the general election? If he changes significantly, would that change your support?

This is pretty common for Presidential candidates. They play to their base in the primaries and try to move to the middle for the general election. This happened to Mitt Romney in 2012, for example. It undercuts the candidates credibility. I don’t see Hillary moving much – she’s already a centrist in terms of fiscal policy and defense/foreign affairs, although she is liberal on social issues. It was always hard to discern what Trump’s true position was on a number of issues, and it will get harder as he pivots to the general election, assuming he gets the GOP nomination.

 

[tomarin]

I believe a transcript is out. The quote I heard was that Trump has been “playing a part” and that the part will now be “evolving.”

I realize that The Donald has denied that the quote means anything. But my question is whether Trump supporters will care if he does shift to the center for the general. I ask because I am not sure they will care, because they are not necessarily policy driven. But I thought it worth asking the question.

I would imagine the supporters would feel betrayed and drop him like a hot potato once he becomes a ‘conventional’ candidate. The whole premise of his appeal (as I understand it) is that he is not a typical politician.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I never supported Trump, but had I, I would stop supporting if he changed his persona. How would I know which was “real” and which was “play acting?” Trump is not believable, not credible.

Are we to believe only Democrat sound bites then? Let’s see, like “…I’m personally against abortion but…” or “…I called out the big banks…” or “…free education…”

We’re supposed to believe those things?

Candidates all make excessive statements. Ultimately, it comes down to realities. Trump might, indeed, tone down the rhetoric and talk more about policy. But that will not necessarily present totally different positions.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I believe a transcript is out. The quote I heard was that Trump has been “playing a part” and that the part will now be “evolving.”

I realize that The Donald has denied that the quote means anything. But my question is whether Trump supporters will care if he does shift to the center for the general. I ask because I am not sure they will care, because they are not necessarily policy driven. But I thought it worth asking the question.

I read “part he was playing”, which is a little different. And it’s certainly different from “play acting” which one often reads.

And no, I don’t think it would matter much to Trump supporters if, all of a sudden he starts talking about “flat taxes” or “revenue neutral measures” or any of the kind of thing they all talk about.

 

[FollowChrist34]

I never supported Trump, but had I, I would stop supporting if he changed his persona. How would I know which was “real” and which was “play acting?” Trump is not believable, not credible.

Well, Trump has to broaden his approach to voters to build a broad enough coalition to win. All of the candidates do this in the general - they move to the center. The problem for Trump (and also Cruz a little bit) is that they have carved out very far right extreme positions that attract a certain voter. What will happen when they modify these views to appeal to the majority of more moderate voters. (immigration is the big one) We don’t know how the Trump base will respond, or if they will even acknowledge the shift. My guess is they stay on board, believe “their Trump” is the real Trump (the prolife one ), some will not even be aware the shift is taking place. I think a lot of these supporters just follow a limited set of media sites, very pro Trump.

I also question if Trump is capable of successfully changing, or becoming more presidential. This more self-controlled, in command persona exposes his shortcomings in experience, knowledge, diplomacy. Also his policy is being drafted as we go by advisors he is hiring; so expect rough spots, contradictions, misunderstandings as Trump articulates his positions…he is just spitting the stuff out that he is being given. I expect a fair amount of backsliding, slip ups - this alone could take him out of the running in the general pretty fast. (not sure he is really in the running in the general as we speak)

 

[Lily_Bernans]

I would imagine the supporters would feel betrayed and drop him like a hot potato once he becomes a ‘conventional’ candidate. The whole premise of his appeal (as I understand it) is that he is not a typical politician.

That’s what I think, too. But I don’t think he’ll be the nominee. I think Cruz will be.

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Well, Trump has to broaden his approach to voters to build a broad enough coalition to win. All of the candidates do this in the general - they move to the center. The problem for Trump (and also Cruz a little bit) is that they have carved out very far right extreme positions that attract a certain voter. What will happen when they modify these views to appeal to the majority of more moderate voters. (immigration is the big one) We don’t know how the Trump base will respond, or if they will even acknowledge the shift. My guess is they stay on board, believe “their Trump” is the real Trump (the prolife one ), some will not even be aware the shift is taking place. I think a lot of these supporters just follow a limited set of media sites, very pro Trump.

I also question if Trump is capable of successfully changing, or becoming more presidential. This more self-controlled, in command persona exposes his shortcomings in experience, knowledge, diplomacy. Also his policy is being drafted as we go by advisors he is hiring; so expect rough spots, contradictions, misunderstandings as Trump articulates his positions…he is just spitting the stuff out that he is being given. I expect a fair amount of backsliding, slip ups - this alone could take him out of the running in the general pretty fast. (not sure he is really in the running in the general as we speak)

If Cruz and Kasich pull off their detente, I’ll call it, then I don’t think Trump will be the nominee. No one will win on the first ballot, and Cruz will be elected on the second. And Hillary will win in a landslide against Cruz.

 

[meltzerboy]

That’s what I think, too. But I don’t think he’ll be the nominee. I think Cruz will be.

Cruz and Kasich on the same ticket perhaps?

As to Trump, of course he is playing a part or play-acting, whichever term you prefer. Wasn’t that obvious from the beginning? He has no core beliefs (as Ridgerunner often reminds us) so that playing one role and then another role should come easier to him than to most other politicians. The latter cannot do so as well, although Hillary has tried, because they have a political record behind them.

 

[gracepoole]

Are we to believe only Democrat sound bites then? Let’s see, like “…I’m personally against abortion but…” or “…I called out the big banks…” or “…free education…”

We’re supposed to believe those things?

Candidates all make excessive statements. Ultimately, it comes down to realities. Trump might, indeed, tone down the rhetoric and talk more about policy. But that will not necessarily present totally different positions.

I think the above instances are different than a candidate who seems to shift his positions mid-campaign or seems not to know what his positions are. All of them may be untrustworthy but the latter strikes me as so problematic that even the lowest information voter might be given pause. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.

 

[Erich]

No one will win on the first ballot, and Cruz will be elected on the second.

I actually agree with you on that much.

And Hillary will win in a landslide against Cruz.

Hmm… where have I heard something like that before? Oh, yes… Gallup’s polling from early 1980 showing that Ronald Reagan was some 30 points behind Jimmy Carter, who of course he went on to demolish in the fall.

Trump supporters will try to make this point as well… but Donald Trump is not Ronald Reagan.

 

[gracepoole]

Cruz and Kasich on the same ticket perhaps?

I’m guessing the same thing. And it’s a really weird pairing, to say the least.

As to Trump, of course he is playing a part or play-acting, whichever term you prefer. Wasn’t that obvious from the beginning? He has no core beliefs (as Ridgerunner often reminds us) so that playing one role and then another role should come easier to him than to most other politicians. The latter cannot do so as well, although Hillary has tried, because they have a political record behind them.

I don’t think any of them are genuinely the same behind closed doors – but unlike the rest of us, they can maintain a public persona whenever they’re not alone. And I doubt they’re alone often. Isn’t this what’s perhaps most frightening about politicians?

 

[Lily_Bernans]

Cruz and Kasich on the same ticket perhaps?

As to Trump, of course he is playing a part or play-acting, whichever term you prefer. Wasn’t that obvious from the beginning? He has no core beliefs (as Ridgerunner often reminds us) so that playing one role and then another role should come easier to him than to most other politicians. The latter cannot do so as well, although Hillary has tried, because they have a political record behind them.

Maybe on the same ticket. That’s what I thought as soon as I heard they’d teamed up to stop Trump.

Sure, it was obvious Trump was playing a part, fear-mongering, but I didn’t think he’d admit it.

 

[meltzerboy]

I’m guessing the same thing. And it’s a really weird pairing, to say the least.

I don’t think any of them are genuinely the same behind closed doors – but unlike the rest of us, they can maintain a public persona whenever they’re not alone. And I doubt they’re alone often. Isn’t this what’s perhaps most frightening about politicians?

The whole political system is weird; but I hadn’t realized just how weird it really is until this election cycle, what with the Democratic superdelegates and the Republican possibility of an open or contested convention. Of course, Trump’s ascendancy in the space of less than a year, having surpassed so many other GOP contenders, as well as Sanders’ great strides, has only served to intensify the unusual quality of this election.

 

[mary_bobo]

Well, Trump has to broaden his approach to voters to build a broad enough coalition to win. All of the candidates do this in the general - they move to the center. The problem for Trump (and also Cruz a little bit) is that they have carved out very far right extreme positions that attract a certain voter. What will happen when they modify these views to appeal to the majority of more moderate voters. (immigration is the big one) We don’t know how the Trump base will respond, or if they will even acknowledge the shift. My guess is they stay on board, believe “their Trump” is the real Trump (the prolife one ), some will not even be aware the shift is taking place. I think a lot of these supporters just follow a limited set of media sites, very pro Trump.

I also question if Trump is capable of successfully changing, or becoming more presidential. This more self-controlled, in command persona exposes his shortcomings in experience, knowledge, diplomacy. Also his policy is being drafted as we go by advisors he is hiring; so expect rough spots, contradictions, misunderstandings as Trump articulates his positions…he is just spitting the stuff out that he is being given. I expect a fair amount of backsliding, slip ups - this alone could take him out of the running in the general pretty fast. (not sure he is really in the running in the general as we speak)

I don’t think has carved out a right wing position. I find it difficult to know where he truly stands on anything, if he ever gave a thought to those things true conservatives think. I also don’t think he is capable of changing. He is what he is and IMO that is not going to change. I may be wrong, but I have serious problems thinking that he is the choice of the majority of conservatives. Maybe there aren’t many conservatives left in the Republican party.