Trump Thread Two

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This is good. Very good!

Do I have your permission to copy this?
You have my permission to copy this :

Hillary Clinton primer for catholic Voters:

Politicians have no business interfering with women’s personal health decisions. I will oppose efforts to roll back women’s access to reproductive health care, including Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood. As president, I’ll stand up for Planned Parenthood and women’s access to critical health services, including safe, legal abortion.

Hillary Clinton January 2016

The Church teaches that abortion or euthanasia is a grave sin. The Encyclical Letter Evangelium vitae, with reference to judicial decisions or civil laws that authorize or promote abortion or euthanasia, states that there is a “grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. …] In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to 'take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law or vote for it’” (no. 73). Christians have a “grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. …] This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it” (no. 74).

Pope Benedict XVI

“No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,”

“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone”

Cardinal Burke

In considering “the sum total of social conditions,” there is, however, a certain order of priority, which must be followed. Conditions upon which other conditions depend must receive our first consideration. The first consideration must be given to the protection of human life itself, without which it makes no sense to consider other social conditions. “The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2273).

Cardinal Burke

]Note that “proportionate reasons’] does not mean simply weighing a wide range of issues against abortion and euthanasia and concluding that they cumulatively outweigh the evil of taking an innocent life. Rather, for there to be proportionate reasons, the voter would have to be convinced that the candidate who supports abortion rights would actually do more than the opposing candidate to limit the harm of abortion or to reduce the number of abortions

Bishop Joseph A. Galante

There is only one thing that could be considered proportionate enough to justify a Catholic voting for a candidate who is known to be pro-abortion, and that is the protection of innocent human life. That may seem to be contradictory, but it is not.

"Consider the case of a Catholic voter who must choose between three candidates: candidate (A, Kerry) who is completely for abortion-on-demand, candidate (B, Bush) who is in favor of very limited abortion, i.e., in favor of greatly restricting abortion and candidate (C, Peroutka), a candidate who is completely against abortion but who is universally recognized as being unelectable.

"The Catholic voter cannot vote for candidate (A, Kerry) because that would be formal cooperation in the sin of abortion if that candidate were to be elected and assist in passing legislation, which would remove restrictions on, abortion-on-demand.

“The Catholic can vote for candidate (C, Peroutka) but that will probably only help ensure the election of candidate (A, Kerry). Therefore the Catholic voter has a proportionate reason to vote for candidate (B, Bush) since his vote may help to ensure the defeat of candidate (A, Kerry) and may result in the saving of some innocent human lives if candidate (B, Bush) is elected and introduces legislation restricting abortion-on-demand. In such a case, the Catholic voter would have chosen the lesser of two evils, which is morally permissible under these circumstances.”

Bishop Rene Gracida

What are “proportionate reasons”? To consider that question, we must first repeat the teaching of the church: The direct killing of innocent human beings at any stage of development, including the embryonic and fetal, is homicidal, gravely sinful and always profoundly wrong . . . .

What evil could be so grave and widespread as to constitute a “proportionate reason” to support candidates who would preserve and protect the abortion license and even extend it to publicly funded embryo-killing in our nation’s labs?

Certainly policies on welfare, national security, the war in Iraq, Social Security or taxes, taken singly or in any combination, do not provide a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion candidate

Archbishop John J. Myers

What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life? That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience. What is the proportionate reason? . . . It is difficult to imagine what that proportionate reason would be

Cardinal Burke
 
You have my permission to copy this :

Hillary Clinton primer for catholic Voters:

Politicians have no business interfering with women’s personal health decisions. I will oppose efforts to roll back women’s access to reproductive health care, including Republican efforts to defund Planned Parenthood. As president, I’ll stand up for Planned Parenthood and women’s access to critical health services, including safe, legal abortion.

Hillary Clinton January 2016

The Church teaches that abortion or euthanasia is a grave sin. The Encyclical Letter Evangelium vitae, with reference to judicial decisions or civil laws that authorize or promote abortion or euthanasia, states that there is a “grave and clear obligation to oppose them by conscientious objection. …] In the case of an intrinsically unjust law, such as a law permitting abortion or euthanasia, it is therefore never licit to obey it, or to 'take part in a propaganda campaign in favour of such a law or vote for it’” (no. 73). Christians have a “grave obligation of conscience not to cooperate formally in practices which, even if permitted by civil legislation, are contrary to God’s law. Indeed, from the moral standpoint, it is never licit to cooperate formally in evil. …] This cooperation can never be justified either by invoking respect for the freedom of others or by appealing to the fact that civil law permits it or requires it” (no. 74).

Pope Benedict XVI

“No, you can never vote for someone who favors absolutely what’s called the ‘right to choice’ of a woman to destroy human life in her womb, or the right to a procured abortion,”

“You may in some circumstances where you don’t have any candidate who is proposing to eliminate all abortion, choose the candidate who will most limit this grave evil in our country, but you could never justify voting for a candidate who not only does not want to limit abortion but believes that it should be available to everyone”

Cardinal Burke

In considering “the sum total of social conditions,” there is, however, a certain order of priority, which must be followed. Conditions upon which other conditions depend must receive our first consideration. The first consideration must be given to the protection of human life itself, without which it makes no sense to consider other social conditions. “The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, No. 2273).

Cardinal Burke

]Note that “proportionate reasons’] does not mean simply weighing a wide range of issues against abortion and euthanasia and concluding that they cumulatively outweigh the evil of taking an innocent life. Rather, for there to be proportionate reasons, the voter would have to be convinced that the candidate who supports abortion rights would actually do more than the opposing candidate to limit the harm of abortion or to reduce the number of abortions

Bishop Joseph A. Galante

There is only one thing that could be considered proportionate enough to justify a Catholic voting for a candidate who is known to be pro-abortion, and that is the protection of innocent human life. That may seem to be contradictory, but it is not.

"Consider the case of a Catholic voter who must choose between three candidates: candidate (A, Kerry) who is completely for abortion-on-demand, candidate (B, Bush) who is in favor of very limited abortion, i.e., in favor of greatly restricting abortion and candidate (C, Peroutka), a candidate who is completely against abortion but who is universally recognized as being unelectable.

"The Catholic voter cannot vote for candidate (A, Kerry) because that would be formal cooperation in the sin of abortion if that candidate were to be elected and assist in passing legislation, which would remove restrictions on, abortion-on-demand.

“The Catholic can vote for candidate (C, Peroutka) but that will probably only help ensure the election of candidate (A, Kerry). Therefore the Catholic voter has a proportionate reason to vote for candidate (B, Bush) since his vote may help to ensure the defeat of candidate (A, Kerry) and may result in the saving of some innocent human lives if candidate (B, Bush) is elected and introduces legislation restricting abortion-on-demand. In such a case, the Catholic voter would have chosen the lesser of two evils, which is morally permissible under these circumstances.”

Bishop Rene Gracida

What are “proportionate reasons”? To consider that question, we must first repeat the teaching of the church: The direct killing of innocent human beings at any stage of development, including the embryonic and fetal, is homicidal, gravely sinful and always profoundly wrong . . . .

What evil could be so grave and widespread as to constitute a “proportionate reason” to support candidates who would preserve and protect the abortion license and even extend it to publicly funded embryo-killing in our nation’s labs?

Certainly policies on welfare, national security, the war in Iraq, Social Security or taxes, taken singly or in any combination, do not provide a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion candidate

Archbishop John J. Myers

What is a proportionate reason to justify favoring the taking of an innocent, defenseless human life? That’s the question that has to be answered in your conscience. What is the proportionate reason? . . . It is difficult to imagine what that proportionate reason would be

Cardinal Burke
Trump is no more prolife than Cecile Richards is, bob.

If you think he’s going to be a friend to the prolife movement should he, God forbid, be elected, you’ll be woefully disappointed.
 
This is good. Very good!

Do I have your permission to copy this?
That is up to Alex H, but you can copy the following if you want:

Hillary Clinton (source):

“we’ve got to make sure to preserve Roe V. Wade, not let it be nibbled away or repealed”

Evangelium Vitae (source):

Laws which legitimize the direct killing of innocent human beings through abortion or euthanasia are in complete opposition to the inviolable right to life proper to every individual; they thus deny the equality of everyone before the law.
Id., no. 72.

Hillary Clinton (source):

“We have to preserve marriage equality”

Document from the Congregation For the Doctrine Of Faith (source):

“There are absolutely no grounds for considering homosexual unions to be in any way similar or even remotely analogous to God’s plan for marriage and family. Marriage is holy, while homosexual acts go against the natural moral law. Homosexual acts “close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved”.(4)”

Archbishop Kurtz (source):

"It is profoundly immoral and unjust for the government to declare that two people of the same sex can constitute a marriage.”
 
That is up to Alex H, but you can copy the following if you want:

Hillary Clinton (source):

“we’ve got to make sure to preserve Roe V. Wade, not let it be nibbled away or repealed”

Evangelium Vitae (source):

Laws which legitimize the direct killing of innocent human beings through abortion or euthanasia are in complete opposition to the inviolable right to life proper to every individual; they thus deny the equality of everyone before the law.
Id., no. 72.

Hillary Clinton (source):

“We have to preserve marriage equality”

Archbishop Kurtz (source):

"It is profoundly immoral and unjust for the government to declare that two people of the same sex can constitute a marriage.”
Trump is not prolife, Abyssinia.
 
Believe me I’ve been in CAF since 2004 and I’ve seen every single Republican candidate for president demonized beyond recognition by Democrat Catholics desperately trying to rationalize their support of pro-abortion candidates. If the Republicans had nominated Pope Francis they will be digging up dirt on things he allegedly said when he was a bishop in Argentina.

And as is usual with these ad hominem attacks we are never really told why we should support the Democrat candidate other than the fact the Republican nominee is Satan personified
This is true.I have asked numerous times for reasons to vote forvHC,Still waiting…
 
Trump is no more prolife than Cecile Richards is, bob.

If you think he’s going to be a friend to the prolife movement should he, God forbid, be elected, you’ll be woefully disappointed.
I’ve heard that rationalization from Democrat Catholics about every Republican candidate for president in the last 30 years . Trump has given us a list of pro-life judges that he has promised to point to the Supreme Court. Again we’re being told to vote against Trump because of what he might do as opposed to what Hillary Clinton has adamantly declared that she will do.

Of course to vote for Hillary we to have to ignore her absolutely disastrous term as Secretary of State , her belief that people must change their religious beliefs to embrace abortion and the fact that all she has really accomplished in life is marry Bill Clinton
 
I’ve heard that rationalization from Democrat Catholics about every Republican candidate for president in the last 30 years . Trump has given us a list of pro-life judges that he has promised to point to the Supreme Court.
Promised?

Really? He used that word?

And even if he didn’t use that specific word, he has as much as given his word on this?

Can you offer the text/video where he has made this “promise”?
 
Trump was recently stuck in a malfunctioning elevator, causing him to be late for an event. He was rescued by firefighters.

At the event he criticized the fire marshal because he enforced the safety limits of the venue. Apparently too many tickets were issued, and the fire marshal had to limit attendance.

thedenverchannel.com/news/politics/trump-rescued-by-firefighters-before-blasting-colorado-springs-fire-marshal
So in addition to attacking war veteran Senator McCain, who was held captive as a prisoner of war, and attacking the MOTHER of a fallen solider, he criticizes the fire marshall?

Stay classy, Trump.
 
Trump is not prolife, Abyssinia.
With all due respect, Mike Pence knows Trump probably better than you do from a personal perspective and he says Trump is and Mike Pence has done a lot of good on issue of abortion in Indiana. As I said before, I don’t think Trump is 100% pro-life because he supports exceptions, but he is far, far better on the issue than Hillary Clinton.
 
I’ve heard that rationalization from Democrat Catholics about every Republican candidate for president in the last 30 years . Trump has given us a list of pro-life judges that he has promised to point to the Supreme Court. Again we’re being told to vote against Trump because of what he might do as opposed to what Hillary Clinton has adamantly declared that she will do.

Of course to vote for Hillary we to have to ignore her absolutely disastrous term as Secretary of State , her belief that people must change their religious beliefs to embrace abortion and the fact that all she has really accomplished in life is marry Bill Clinton
Was Hillary Secretary of State when 9/11 happened? Who, oh, who was Secretary of State when 9/11 happened?

…crickets chirping…
 
With all due respect, Mike Pence knows Trump probably better than you do from a personal perspective and he says Trump is and Mike Pence has done a lot of good on issue of abortion in Indiana. As I said before, I don’t think Trump is 100% pro-life because he supports exceptions, but he is far, far better on the issue than Hillary Clinton.
And “better” but not prolife is NOT a reason to vote for him over Hillary.
 
With all due respect, Mike Pence knows Trump probably better than you do from a personal perspective and he says Trump is and Mike Pence has done a lot of good on issue of abortion in Indiana. As I said before, I don’t think Trump is 100% pro-life because he supports exceptions, but he is far, far better on the issue than Hillary Clinton.
Trump thinks Planned Parenthood does “wonderful” work for women – except for when it comes to abortion. Does Pence share that view?
 
Trump has given us a list of pro-life judges that he has promised to point to the Supreme Court.
Incidentally, given that this man has “promised” (actually VOWED) to be a faithful husband…and yet has not kept his -]promise/-] vow, I don’t think anyone would fault me for being a bit skeptical about any “promises” he makes.

But I am indeed curious to see what words he used, with what degree of commitment (my scoffing notwithstanding of his ability to stand by his commitments) he asserted he will appoint a prolife judge.
 
Promised?

Really? He used that word?

And even if he didn’t use that specific word, he has as much as given his word on this?

Can you offer the text/video where he has made this “promise”?
These are the words used Trump used in his acceptance speech. Notice the absence of the words “abortion,” “pro-life,” and “promise”:

*"We are also going to appoint justices to the United States Supreme Court who will uphold our laws and our Constitution.

The replacement for Justice Scalia will be a person of similar views and principles."*

Read more: politico.com/story/2016/07/full-transcript-donald-trump-nomination-acceptance-speech-at-rnc-225974#ixzz4FznUuJkS

“Similar views and principles” is a very broad statement.

Ruth Bader Ginsberg, who was friends with Scalia, upholds “our laws and our Constitution.” Someone like RBG fits the criteria specifically described by Trump.
 
Incidentally, given that this man has “promised” (actually VOWED) to be a faithful husband…and yet has not kept his -]promise/-] vow, I don’t think anyone would fault me for being a bit skeptical about any “promises” he makes.

But I am indeed curious to see what words he used, with what degree of commitment (my scoffing notwithstanding of his ability to stand by his commitments) he asserted he will appoint a prolife judge.
Trump was married THREE TIMES, and most recent wife’s college education (if she was graduated from a university: nobody knows) cannot even be verified.

Clinton has been married ONCE, is still in that ONE marriage, and both of their college education is a matter of public record.
 
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