Trump Thread Two

[Ridgerunner]

Funny how folks who were all on board with George W. Bush’s regime changes and railing against Obama for not enforcing the “red line” in Syria now turning around and embracing isolationism because of what the temporary tribal leader says.

I’m not an isolationist, nor a neoconservative. I’m kinda-sorta of a realist and yes, I believe in hegemonic peace. I believe Pax Americana is an idea that’s worth defending. Defending with blood and treasure.

Abandoning the post-Cold War international order because it “cost us too much” will only cost us a lot more later. That’s the lesson from the post-World War I world.

it isn’t a matter of “isolationism” vs “interventionism”. I do not agree with those who opposed the Iraq War, therefore I disagree with Trump on that issue.

But there are huge differences between a war (Iraq) that was won and then thrown away by Obama and Clinton, and one ILibya) that even Obama now admits was a mistake. It was a “war on the cheap” that put terrorists in control of much of the country.

What is the common element? Turning countries over to terrorists. Clinton, having initially supported the Iraq War, then supported leaving victory on the field, knowing it would turn into a battleground between Iran and radical Sunni. In Libya, we destroyed an anti-terrorist regime for the benefit of terrorists. Clinton also supported the Muslim Brotherhood’s ascendancy in Egypt and ran guns to terrorists in Syria.

Though trump opposed the Iraq War (with which I differ) he adds that he would not have abandoned our allies and victory there (with which I agree). This, to me, shows more pragmatism than floundering about turning countries over to terrorist groups.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Well, it does. Political speech is protected speech.

I understand that Mr. Kahn (who attended Harvard Law) probably spoke to give a positive view of Muslim Americans. He’s an immigrant Muslim whose son died heroically.

In one of the first interviews Trump gave with Stephanolous he said the Mrs. Kahn didn’t speak because she wasn’t permitted to speak, as, according to trump, many people supposedly wrote.

Why make a stereotypical attack like that on a grieving mother?

He could have given a simple response, “I appreciate the sacrifice of their son, I can’t imagine losing a son.”

But, at that interview, he insulted Mrs. Kahn, he said that Mr. Kahn’s speech was written by Hillary.

And days later, he hasn’t let it go.

Imaginably Khan’s speech wasn’t written by Hillary Clinton, but it was undoubtedly approved by her and/or her operatives.

Khan’s speech was really just calling Trump names; “racist”, “anti-woman” and so on. Had nothing to do with the circumstances of his son’s death two presidents ago and in a war Trump opposed. His son’s death was simply a shield behind which he expected a pass to make slanderous statements without opposition.

 

[estesbob]

If the tax break isn’t available to everyone across all industries and or income levels then it is free stuff for some people that other people pay for.

How can keeping your own money be getting free stuff? Of course if we use that definition the 48% of the income earners who pay no federal income taxes are getting the most “free stuff”

 

[meltzerboy]

Looks like Trump won’t be doing any particularly helpful leading of his party for the rest of the ticket…

usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/08/02/donald-trump-paul-ryan-john-mccain-republican-primary/87970700/

He’s refusing to endorse John McCain, which isn’t terribly shocking given their tense relationship since Trump mocked McCain last year for being a POW and claiming he doesn’t do enough for vets (a particularly laughable statement given this week’s developments). But he’s also declining to endorse Paul Ryan despite Ryan’s own endorsement of Trump after withdrawing. If this is how he’s going to treat those that have publicly supported him you’re going to find his public support from the rest of the Republican Party quickly drying up.

I mean veterans groups were already urging Ryan to pull his endorsement of Trump, and this was before this snub.

huffingtonpost.com/entry/paul-ryan-donald-trump-veterans_us_579f912de4b0e2e15eb6a467

Why would Ryan even want Trump’s endorsement? I think it might hurt him more than help him.

 

[Thorolfr]

it isn’t a matter of “isolationism” vs “interventionism”. I do not agree with those who opposed the Iraq War, therefore I disagree with Trump on that issue.

But there are huge differences between a war (Iraq) that was won and then thrown away by Obama and Clinton, and one ILibya) that even Obama now admits was a mistake. It was a “war on the cheap” that put terrorists in control of much of the country.

I don’t know how you can believe that the war in Iraq “was won.” You make it sound as if things would have been different than what they now are if the Bush administration had continued when in fact, the disaster that is now Iraq was set in motion by the incompetent post-war occupation under Bush. There is no evidence that anyone, including the Bush administration, could have kept a lid on things in Iraq and that a viable and functioning post war government could ever have been established after serious missteps by the Bush administration.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Imaginably Khan’s speech wasn’t written by Hillary Clinton, but it was undoubtedly approved by her and/or her operatives.

Khan’s speech was really just calling Trump names; “racist”, “anti-woman” and so on. Had nothing to do with the circumstances of his son’s death two presidents ago and in a war Trump opposed. His son’s death was simply a shield behind which he expected a pass to make slanderous statements without opposition.

Again, slander is very difficult to prove in political speech.

This would have simply not been a controversy at all, if Trump gave a response that was in someway empathetic to a family who lost their son.

But days later, we are still talking about it because TRUMP keeps bringing it up, and insisting he’s right.

Why is Trump dwelling on it? It comes across as petty.

Politicians get criticized all the time. People in the public eye get criticized all the time.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There’s an interesting article in the Guardian about Mr. Trump’s reaction to the crying baby at one of his rallies with other examples of his curious way with children:

theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/03/donald-trump-attack-on-baby-in-virginia-losing-women-voters

The crying baby thing was a shared joke. I think everybody knows that by now.

As to your quoted partisan remark, restated as follows:

"A lawyer has testified that in 2011, when she asked for a break during a legal proceeding involving Donald Trump so that she could pump breast milk for her baby, he turned to her red-faced and screamed, “You’re disgusting, you’re disgusting.”

More telling still is an episode the Daily Beast rightly describes as “creepy”. In 1994, his wife Marla had just given birth to a daughter, Tiffany, and Trump gave an interview about the new arrival. “Well, I think that she’s got a lot of Marla,” he said. “She’s a really beautiful baby, and she’s got Marla’s legs. We don’t know whether she’s got this part yet, but time will tell.” As Trump said the words “this part”, he gestured toward his chest."

I recall, some years ago, being a party in a lawsuit in which a deposition was being taken. The opposing party was represented by a woman whose client was being grilled and making mistake after mistake. The lady lawyer then jumped up and said she had a bad back and she needed 10 or 15 minutes to “loosen up”. The opposing lawyer raised a fuss and refused to allow it because he perceived she was going to go coach her client, which she probably was; something that happens in depositions. The lady lawyer sat back down and didn’t make another complaint. But it was a very tense exchange.

We don’t know whether that “drawing breast milk” was real or not, or even whether Trump said it. But worse arguments than that happen in depositions. And “drawing” breast milk? Was the baby in the next room, perhaps? Did she not do it that morning to leave it with the babysitter? The whole thing sounds fake to me.

As to the 'creepy" comment about the daughter, new fathers sometimes make stupid remarks like that. Sounds to me like he was lamely complimenting mother and possibly mother thought it was just fine. I guess I’m a crude person too. When my son was born, I was there. He was pretty well endowed in one respect. I jokingly commented on that to my wife, who thought it was funny. She had just given birth, for goodness sake, and I thought maybe a little silliness might give her a little distractive relief.

I imagine new fathers say far dumber things than that. Are we supposed to be aghast? I guess they think we should, even when we wouldn’t be in ordinary life.

The DNC talking points really have dug below the bottom of the barrel. But that’s them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Again, slander is very difficult to prove in political speech.

This would have simply not been a controversy at all, if Trump gave a response that was in someway empathetic to a family who lost their son.

But days later, we are still talking about it because TRUMP keeps bringing it up, and insisting he’s right.

Why is Trump dwelling on it? It comes across as petty.

Politicians get criticized all the time. People in the public eye get criticized all the time.

Trump keeps bringing it up? Look at Post #873. It’s not Trump’s.

And I think "racist’ is slanderous, whether it’s protected political speech or not. I wasn’t talking about the legal distinctions, just the nature of the statement.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

The crying baby thing was a shared joke. I think everybody knows that by now.

As to your quoted partisan remark, restated as follows:

"A lawyer has testified that in 2011, when she asked for a break during a legal proceeding involving Donald Trump so that she could pump breast milk for her baby, he turned to her red-faced and screamed, “You’re disgusting, you’re disgusting.”

More telling still is an episode the Daily Beast rightly describes as “creepy”. In 1994, his wife Marla had just given birth to a daughter, Tiffany, and Trump gave an interview about the new arrival. “Well, I think that she’s got a lot of Marla,” he said. “She’s a really beautiful baby, and she’s got Marla’s legs. We don’t know whether she’s got this part yet, but time will tell.” As Trump said the words “this part”, he gestured toward his chest."

I recall, some years ago, being a party in a lawsuit in which a deposition was being taken. The opposing party was represented by a woman whose client was being grilled and making mistake after mistake. The lady lawyer then jumped up and said she had a bad back and she needed 10 or 15 minutes to “loosen up”. The opposing lawyer raised a fuss and refused to allow it because he perceived she was going to go coach her client, which she probably was; something that happens in depositions. The lady lawyer sat back down and didn’t make another complaint. But it was a very tense exchange.

We don’t know whether that “drawing breast milk” was real or not, or even whether Trump said it. But worse arguments than that happen in depositions. And “drawing” breast milk? Was the baby in the next room, perhaps? Did she not do it that morning to leave it with the babysitter? The whole thing sounds fake to me.

As to the 'creepy" comment about the daughter, new fathers sometimes make stupid remarks like that. Sounds to me like he was lamely complimenting mother and possibly mother thought it was just fine. I guess I’m a crude person too. When my son was born, I was there. He was pretty well endowed in one respect. I jokingly commented on that to my wife, who thought it was funny. She had just given birth, for goodness sake, and I thought maybe a little silliness might give her a little distractive relief.

I imagine new fathers say far dumber things than that. Are we supposed to be aghast? I guess they think we should, even when we wouldn’t be in ordinary life.

The DNC talking points really have dug below the bottom of the barrel. But that’s them.

You said whatever you said to your wife, I assume in a private setting.

Trump said this in an interview to the question, “Who does the baby look like?”

 

[Thorolfr]

You said whatever you said to your wife, I assume in a private setting.

Trump said this in an interview to the question, “Who does the baby look like?”

That’s part of the issue, that Mr. Trump doesn’t seem to recognize certain boundaries between what one says in private or in one’s own head and what one says in public.

 

[Al_Moritz]

NYPD commissioner: Trump ‘scares the hell out of me’

Donald Trump doesn’t just strike fear into Bill Bratton. He “scares the hell out of me,” the retiring New York Police Department commissioner said Wednesday.

“Mr. Trump scares me — scares the hell out of me, to be quite frank with you and personal opinion,” Bratton told “CBS This Morning.” “I just don’t get it in terms of the support for him.”

Bratton, a military veteran, also said he was “amazed that veterans groups are so charmed by him” and called his Purple Heart episode “appalling.”
At a rally in Ashburn, Virginia, on Tuesday, the Republican presidential nominee told the crowd that a retired lieutenant colonel who supports his campaign had presented him with a Purple Heart as a gift.

“I said: ‘Man, that’s like big stuff. I always wanted to get the Purple Heart,’” Trump said. “This was much easier.”

Bratton accused Trump of “demeaning” the medal, which is awarded to those wounded in combat. The real estate mogul gave “no recognition of the significance of that medal or the meaning of it,” Bratton said. “There’s no sensitivity there.”

But Trump’s “lack of depth” on policy issues and his “shoot from the hip” style are what scare Bratton, he said. “I just watched this whole campaign and I just shake my head. Again, a personal opinion,” he said, noting that he’s been in public life for nearly five decades. “And I just — I don’t get it.”

He also echoed President Barack Obama’s criticism that Trump is unfit for the Oval Office. At a bilateral news conference on Tuesday, Obama called Trump “unfit to serve in any office” and “woefully unprepared” for the presidency.

“That’s my belief,” Bratton added. “That is my belief.”

And he mocked Trump for being a so-called “tough guy,” questioning whether the billionaire businessman has ever taken a punch — “an actual, physical punch,” he said.

“I’m always amazed by people who are portrayed as tough guys or portray themselves as tough. It’s easy to be tough,” he said. “It really is easy to be tough. It’s a lot tougher being soft and understanding when you need to be soft, like the apology to this family. What would be the harm of rather than taking offense that they said something bad about you, to understand their pain? Isn’t that the issue? There’s no compassion there. It’s all about him and never about anybody else. You know, strange times.”

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t know how you can believe that the war in Iraq “was won.” You make it sound as if things would have been different than what they now are if the Bush administration had continued when in fact, the disaster that is now Iraq was set in motion by the incompetent post-war occupation under Bush. There is no evidence that anyone, including the Bush administration, could have kept a lid on things in Iraq and that a viable and functioning post war government could ever have been established after serious missteps by the Bush administration.

Even Bin Ladin admitted it was won, and called off A.Q. fighters because they were just marching to their deaths without accomplishing anything. The Sunni tribal leaders, the Sistani Shia and the Kurds all begged us to stay and keep the peace awhile longer. The Joint Chiefs, the DIA and the CIA all agreed to that plan of action. Even Obama’s own CIA chief, Leon Panetta said it. Even Obama himself said we won while claiming credit for himself.

The DNC really needs to come up with a better excuse for Obama/Clinton abandoning Iraq to the war between Sunni radicals and Iran now raging there.

And isn’t it just a tiny bit ethnicist to say that Arabs are inherently incapable of self-governance? Even “racist” old Trump doesn’t say that.

 

[Book_Worm]

The reason people choose a candidate not your own is because we have our own way of thinking. There! Is that acceptable to you? Is it ok that people don’t agree witht you when you say trump is a cheater, scammer, racist, mentally unstable?

There are ways of thinking–opinions–and then there are facts.

The fact is that Trump University cheated people out of their money. The people who worked there have testified to that.

The facts is that Trump forced small businesses out of the money he owed them by threatening to tie them up in court for years if they didn’t settle for pennies on the dollar. He then claimed that he did that because their work did not come up to his standards. And then turned around and offered to hire these people who did substandard work for other projects.

The fact is It is not rational to deny you have made statements when confronted with videotape of those statements.

You’re entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Mr. Kahn by the way did not use the word racist in his speech.

His speech was relatively short, just about 3 minutes or so.

abcnews.go.com/Politics/full-text-khizr-khans-speech-2016-democratic-national/story?id=41043609

Hillary Clinton was right when she called my son “the best of America.” If it was up to Donald Trump, he never would have been in America. Donald Trump consistently smears the character of Muslims. He disrespects other minorities – women, judges, even his own party leadership. He vows to build walls and ban us from this country.

Donald Trump, you are asking Americans to trust you with our future. Let me ask you: Have you even read the U.S. Constitution? I will gladly lend you my copy. In this document, look for the words “liberty” and “equal protection of law.”

Have you ever been to Arlington Cemetery? Go look at the graves of the brave patriots who died defending America – you will see all faiths, genders, and ethnicities.

You have sacrificed nothing and no one.

 

[Peccavi]

There are ways of thinking–opinions–and then there are facts.

The fact is that Trump University cheated people out of their money. The people who worked there have testified to that.

The facts is that Trump forced small businesses out of the money he owed them by threatening to tie them up in court for years if they didn’t settle for pennies on the dollar. He then claimed that he did that because their work did not come up to his standards. And then turned around and offered to hire these people who did substandard work for other projects.

The fact is It is not rational to deny you have made statements when confronted with videotape of those statements.

You’re entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon14.gif

 

[meltzerboy]

Even Bin Ladin admitted it was won, and called off A.Q. fighters because they were just marching to their deaths without accomplishing anything. The Sunni tribal leaders, the Sistani Shia and the Kurds all begged us to stay and keep the peace awhile longer. The Joint Chiefs, the DIA and the CIA all agreed to that plan of action. Even Obama’s own CIA chief, Leon Panetta said it. Even Obama himself said we won while claiming credit for himself.

The DNC really needs to come up with a better excuse for Obama/Clinton abandoning Iraq to the war between Sunni radicals and Iran now raging there.

And isn’t it just a tiny bit ethnicist to say that Arabs are inherently incapable of self-governance? Even “racist” old Trump doesn’t say that.

I don’t think the previous poster actually said that about Arabs and even any implication is unfounded. He was blaming the Bush administration’s missteps for the failure, not the Arabs themselves. However, I have little doubt that good old Trump will in due time make a remark similar to the one you suggest.

 

[Thorolfr]

Even Bin Ladin admitted it was won, and called off A.Q. fighters because they were just marching to their deaths without accomplishing anything. The Sunni tribal leaders, the Sistani Shia and the Kurds all begged us to stay and keep the peace awhile longer. The Joint Chiefs, the DIA and the CIA all agreed to that plan of action. Even Obama’s own CIA chief, Leon Panetta said it. Even Obama himself said we won while claiming credit for himself.

The DNC really needs to come up with a better excuse for Obama/Clinton abandoning Iraq to the war between Sunni radicals and Iran now raging there.

And isn’t it just a tiny bit ethnicist to say that Arabs are inherently incapable of self-governance? Even “racist” old Trump doesn’t say that.

Your depiction of events doesn’t really square with the analysis of most experts I’ve read. The new book ISIS: A History (Princeton University Press, 2016) by Fawaz Gerges, Professor of Middle East Politics and International Relations at the London School of Economics and Political Science places most of the blame for the rise of ISIS on missteps by the Bush administration.

 

[Ridgerunner]

NYPD commissioner: Trump ‘scares the hell out of me’

Donald Trump doesn’t just strike fear into Bill Bratton. He “scares the hell out of me,” the retiring New York Police Department commissioner said Wednesday.

“Mr. Trump scares me — scares the hell out of me, to be quite frank with you and personal opinion,” Bratton told “CBS This Morning.” “I just don’t get it in terms of the support for him.”

Bratton, a military veteran, also said he was “amazed that veterans groups are so charmed by him” and called his Purple Heart episode “appalling.”
At a rally in Ashburn, Virginia, on Tuesday, the Republican presidential nominee told the crowd that a retired lieutenant colonel who supports his campaign had presented him with a Purple Heart as a gift.

“I said: ‘Man, that’s like big stuff. I always wanted to get the Purple Heart,’” Trump said. “This was much easier.”

Bratton accused Trump of “demeaning” the medal, which is awarded to those wounded in combat. The real estate mogul gave “no recognition of the significance of that medal or the meaning of it,” Bratton said. “There’s no sensitivity there.”

But Trump’s “lack of depth” on policy issues and his “shoot from the hip” style are what scare Bratton, he said. “I just watched this whole campaign and I just shake my head. Again, a personal opinion,” he said, noting that he’s been in public life for nearly five decades. “And I just — I don’t get it.”

He also echoed President Barack Obama’s criticism that Trump is unfit for the Oval Office. At a bilateral news conference on Tuesday, Obama called Trump “unfit to serve in any office” and “woefully unprepared” for the presidency.

“That’s my belief,” Bratton added. “That is my belief.”

And he mocked Trump for being a so-called “tough guy,” questioning whether the billionaire businessman has ever taken a punch — “an actual, physical punch,” he said.

“I’m always amazed by people who are portrayed as tough guys or portray themselves as tough. It’s easy to be tough,” he said. “It really is easy to be tough. It’s a lot tougher being soft and understanding when you need to be soft, like the apology to this family. What would be the harm of rather than taking offense that they said something bad about you, to understand their pain? Isn’t that the issue? There’s no compassion there. It’s all about him and never about anybody else. You know, strange times.”

Bratton is entitled to say what he wants to say. However, the only foundation he laid for his statement relates to Trump’s “insensitivity” in his comments, and he was “appalled” that some veteran gave Trump his own purple heart. Nothing else. No stated factual reason to be “scared” at all.

No mention, of course, of Bratton’s four marriages by those who wax so condemning of Trump’s three.

 

[meltzerboy]

Bratton is entitled to say what he wants to say. However, the only foundation he laid for his statement relates to Trump’s “insensitivity” in his comments, and he was “appalled” that some veteran gave Trump his own purple heart. Nothing else. No stated factual reason to be “scared” at all.

No mention, of course, of Bratton’s four marriages by those who wax so condemning of Trump’s three.

BTW, it was reported that Trump was mistaken in stating the purple heart he received was not a copy: the veteran who gave it to him said it was a copy. Why would Trump misspeak even about that? Did he actually not remember? If so, that itself is troubling.

You are critical of NYC’s Police Commissioner, Bill Bratton?! LOL That is beyond the pale.

 

[Good_Tidings]

it isn’t a matter of “isolationism” vs “interventionism”. I do not agree with those who opposed the Iraq War, therefore I disagree with Trump on that issue.

But there are huge differences between a war (Iraq) that was won and then thrown away by Obama and Clinton, and one ILibya) that even Obama now admits was a mistake. It was a “war on the cheap” that put terrorists in control of much of the country.

What is the common element? Turning countries over to terrorists. Clinton, having initially supported the Iraq War, then supported leaving victory on the field, knowing it would turn into a battleground between Iran and radical Sunni. In Libya, we destroyed an anti-terrorist regime for the benefit of terrorists. Clinton also supported the Muslim Brotherhood’s ascendancy in Egypt and ran guns to terrorists in Syria.

Though trump opposed the Iraq War (with which I differ) he adds that he would not have abandoned our allies and victory there (with which I agree). This, to me, shows more pragmatism than floundering about turning countries over to terrorist groups.

It was W that signed the status of forces agreement that said we would get out at a certain date. We honored that agreement. We were kicked out.