Trump Thread Two

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_Abyssinia said:
And what about this? There are claimed links between donations to the Clinton Foundation and approval to buy a Uranium company, check this out:

Clinton Foundation Linked To Russian Effort To Buy Uranium Company

npr.org/2015/04/23/401781313/clinton-foundation-linked-to-russian-effort-to-buy-uranium-company

According to the article, Bil Clinton got $500000 to give a speech in Russia and “the report links those payments to parties with an interest in getting the U.S. government to approve foreign ownership of some American uranium mines.”

In regards to the speaking fee, “That was paid by Renaissance Capital, an investment bank in Russia that has links to the Kremlin. And basically they invited Bill, and Bill gave the speech just after the Russians had announced their desire to acquire this 51-percent stake in this company, but before the U.S. government had signed off.”

The chairman, of what was presumably a Uranium company, donated millions of dollars to the Clinton Foundation, which the Clinton Foundation “failed to disclose” and Hillary Signed a memorandum when joining the Obama admin that, “she would disclose all donations. The other part of it was that they wouldn’t take foreign donations while she was Secretary of State. And she’s now saying that they won’t take foreign donations if she becomes president”
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Oh c’mon on it’s the Clinton’s so there is “no there there”:mad:
 
LeafByNiggle said:
The cause and effect is speculation.
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It’s a coincidence millions go into her money laundering cartel/foundation and arms deals get OK’d?

Good God, if your statement were any denser it could collapse into itself and form a black hole.
 
gilliam said:
Trump says he was being “sarcastic” about wanting Russia to find Clinton’s deleted emails. abcn.ws/2aen9xK
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Of course he was, as anyone who watched is press conference or read his tweet could tell.

I’ve never engaged in espionage, but I suspect most who do use more surreptitious means than live TV and twitter.
 
estesbob said:
trump ups lead to 7.5 points. Unusual that he is increasing his lead during the Democrat Convention

latimes.com/politics/
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It is probably because the 2 conventions are so close to each other. Opinion polls are lagging indicators. So it takes a few days to see the impact. We will probably see Clinton increase for the next 2 weeks as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if she overtakes Trump by Monday or Tuesday.
 
gilliam said:
It is probably because the 2 conventions are so close to each other. Opinion polls are lagging indicators. So it takes a few days to see the impact. We will probably see Clinton increase for the next 2 weeks as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if she overtakes Trump by Monday or Tuesday.
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She probably will but it is also interesting that Trump has managed to stay in the spotlight in spite of the 24/7 coverage of the DNC convetnion. This morning there was more discussion about of his joke about Hillarys emails than there was about last nights speeches
 
I visited Google and typed in " youtube trump july " and there was a speech he gave in Ohio yesterday. Apparently after his press conference, he appeared in Pennsylvania and in Ohio.

Anyway, Trump complained that Hillary is now adopting his economic proposals.

Although Trump did say, that she is making those [his] statements, but will not actually DO any of that stuff if she is elected.
 
gilliam said:
Trump says he was being “sarcastic” about wanting Russia to find Clinton’s deleted emails. abcn.ws/2aen9xK
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It wouldn’t matter if he was being serious either. There’s nothing dangerous or damaging for US security if Russia releases 30k emails on yoga and wedding plans. That’s all that was in those deleted emails according to Hillary. She wouldn’t lie about that, would she?
 
My model shows Donald Trump has an 87 percent chance of beating Hillary Clinton

newsday.com/opinion/my-model-shows-donald-trump-has-an-87-percent-chance-of-beating-hillary-clinton-1.12102905

His model, “has predicted the winner of the popular vote in all five presidential elections since it was introduced. It is based on elections dating to 1912. The formula was wrong only once: The 1960 election.”

Helmut Norpoth’s model also found Trump would win back during the Republican primaries against Clinton in a General Election.
 
USCCB: Genocide, torture, and the direct and intentional targeting of noncombatants in war or terrorist attacks are always wrong. (link)

Trump: “You have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. … When they say they don’t care about their lives, you have to take out their families.” (link) Trump says ‘torture works,’ backs waterboarding and ‘much worse’ (link)

USCCB: supports efforts to end the use of the death penalty (link)

Trump: “One of the first things I do [if elected President] in terms of executive order if I win will be to sign a strong, strong statement that will go out to the country, out to the world, that … anybody killing a police officer—death penalty. It’s going to happen, O.K.?” (link)

USCCB: The use of weapons of mass destruction or other means of warfare that do not distinguish between civilians and soldiers is fundamentally immoral. The United States has a responsibility to work to reverse the spread of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and to reduce its own reliance on weapons of mass destruction by pursuing progressive nuclear disarmament. (link)

Trump: “If Japan had that nuclear threat, I’m not sure that would be a bad thing for us.” Donald Trump thinks more countries should have nuclear weapons. (link)

USCCB: The institution of marriage is undermined by the ideology of “gender” that dismisses sexual difference and the complementarity of the sexes and falsely presents “gender” as nothing more than a social construct or psychological reality, which a person may choose at variance with his or her biological reality (see Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, no. 224). (link)

Trump: Donald Trump Thinks North Carolina Got It Wrong On Anti-LGBT Bathroom Bill (link)

USCCB: Wages should allow workers to support their families (link)

Trump: “They were talking about increasing the minimum wage. And whether it’s taxes or minimum wages, if they’re too high, we’re not going to be able to compete with other countries.” (link)

USCCB: The Gospel mandate to “welcome the stranger” requires Catholics to care for and stand with newcomers, authorized and unauthorized, including unaccompanied immigrant children, refugees and asylum-seekers, those unnecessarily detained, and victims of human trafficking. (link)

Trump: Trump’s immigration plan: Mass deportation (link) In the interview, Trump expanded on his plan to restrict immigration from areas with high levels of terrorism, insisting that his rhetoric is not a “roll back” of his initial proposal to ban all Muslim immigrants. (link)

USCCB: Our Conference offers a distinctive call to seriously address global climate change, (link)

Trump: “Obama’s talking about all of this with the global warming and … a lot of it’s a hoax. It’s a hoax. I mean, it’s a money-making industry, OK? It’s a hoax, a lot of it.” (link)
 
Alex_H said:
USCCB: Genocide, torture, and the direct and intentional targeting of noncombatants in war or terrorist attacks are always wrong. (link)

Trump: “You have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. … When they say they don’t care about their lives, you have to take out their families.” (link) Trump says ‘torture works,’ backs waterboarding and ‘much worse’ (link)

USCCB: supports efforts to end the use of the death penalty (link)

Trump: “One of the first things I do [if elected President] in terms of executive order if I win will be to sign a strong, strong statement that will go out to the country, out to the world, that … anybody killing a police officer—death penalty. It’s going to happen, O.K.?” (link)

USCCB: The use of weapons of mass destruction or other means of warfare that do not distinguish between civilians and soldiers is fundamentally immoral. The United States has a responsibility to work to reverse the spread of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons, and to reduce its own reliance on weapons of mass destruction by pursuing progressive nuclear disarmament. (link)

Trump: “If Japan had that nuclear threat, I’m not sure that would be a bad thing for us.” Donald Trump thinks more countries should have nuclear weapons. (link)

USCCB: The institution of marriage is undermined by the ideology of “gender” that dismisses sexual difference and the complementarity of the sexes and falsely presents “gender” as nothing more than a social construct or psychological reality, which a person may choose at variance with his or her biological reality (see Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, no. 224). (link)

Trump: Donald Trump Thinks North Carolina Got It Wrong On Anti-LGBT Bathroom Bill (link)

USCCB: Wages should allow workers to support their families (link)

Trump: “They were talking about increasing the minimum wage. And whether it’s taxes or minimum wages, if they’re too high, we’re not going to be able to compete with other countries.” (link)

USCCB: The Gospel mandate to “welcome the stranger” requires Catholics to care for and stand with newcomers, authorized and unauthorized, including unaccompanied immigrant children, refugees and asylum-seekers, those unnecessarily detained, and victims of human trafficking. (link)

Trump: Trump’s immigration plan: Mass deportation (link) In the interview, Trump expanded on his plan to restrict immigration from areas with high levels of terrorism, insisting that his rhetoric is not a “roll back” of his initial proposal to ban all Muslim immigrants. (link)

USCCB: Our Conference offers a distinctive call to seriously address global climate change, (link)

Trump: “Obama’s talking about all of this with the global warming and … a lot of it’s a hoax. It’s a hoax. I mean, it’s a money-making industry, OK? It’s a hoax, a lot of it.” (link)
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Trump has also said the issue of bathrooms is a states rights issue and with the minimum wage he supports a $10 minimum wage, but also supports states rights on the issue.

Neither Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump perfectly align with Catholic teaching in terms of their views. They both have positions that place them at odds with Catholic teaching. A list can be made showing how positions that Hillary Clinton holds are at odds with Catholic teaching too.
 
_Abyssinia said:
Trump has also said the issue of bathrooms is a states rights issue and with the minimum wage he supports a $10 minimum wage, but also supports states rights on the issue.

Neither Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump perfectly align with Catholic teaching in terms of their views. They both have positions that place them at odds with Catholic teaching. A list can be made showing how positions that Hillary Clinton holds are at odds with Catholic teaching too.
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That’s kind of what I’m trying to show here. It seems that many on CAF think that this election is black and white, with one candidate being in line with Catholic teaching and the other being out of line. Voting for Hillary doesn’t make one a bad catholic, if you ask me.
 
Alex_H said:
That’s kind of what I’m trying to show here. It seems that many on CAF think that this election is black and white, with one candidate being in line with Catholic teaching and the other being out of line. Voting for Hillary doesn’t make one a bad catholic, if you ask me.
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Catholics can vote for a pro-abortion candidate if there are proportionate reasons. Given that Donald Trump has voiced support for abortion restrictions and Hillary Clinton takes a much more extreme view on abortion on him, what proportionate reasons exist for a Catholic to vote for Hillary Clinton?

Bishop Gracida wrote this in regards to the 2004 US presidential election election and he looks at the three candidates, Perouka, Kerry and Bush. It’s a very interesting article. I’m not trying to say here that Bishop Gracida is saying it’s fine to vote for Donald Trump, but look at the issues he cites in the the following excerpt as lacking proportionally to vote for a pro-abortion candidate, and consider that most of the quotes that you presented having to do with Donald Trump being out of step with Catholic teaching probably have to do with the issues of war, the death penalty and immigration, right?
Since abortion and euthanasia have been defined by the Church as the most serious sins prevalent in our society, what kind of reasons could possibly be considered proportionate enough to justify a Catholic voting for a candidate who is known to be pro-abortion? None of the reasons commonly suggested could even begin to be proportionate enough to justify a Catholic voting for such a candidate. Reasons such as the candidate’s position on war, or taxes, or the death penalty, or immigration, or a national health plan, or social security, or aids, or homosexuality, or marriage, or any similar burning societal issues of our time are simply lacking in proportionality.
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catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=6159

These are excepts from Bishop John J Myers regarding proportionate reasons:
Cardinal Ratzinger stated that a “Catholic would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for Holy Communion, if he were to deliberately vote for a candidate precisely because of a candidate’s permissive stand on abortion.” But the question of the moment is whether a Catholic may vote for a pro-abortion candidate for other reasons. The cardinal’s next sentence answered that question: A Catholic may vote for a pro-abortion Catholic politician only “in the presence of proportionate reasons.”
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What are “proportionate reasons”? To consider that question, we must first repeat the teaching of the church: The direct killing of innocent human beings at any stage of development, including the embryonic and fetal, is homicidal, gravely sinful and always profoundly wrong. Then we must consider the scope of the evil of abortion today in our country. America suffers 1.3 million abortions each year–a tragedy of epic proportions. Moreover, many supporters of abortion propose making the situation even worse by creating a publicly funded industry in which tens of thousands of human lives are produced each year for the purpose of being “sacrificed” in biomedical research.
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Thus for a Catholic citizen to vote for a candidate who supports abortion and embryo-destructive research, one of the following circumstances would have to obtain: either (a) both candidates would have to be in favor of embryo killing on roughly an equal scale or (b) the candidate with the superior position on abortion and embryo-destructive research would have to be a supporter of objective evils of a gravity and magnitude beyond that of 1.3 million yearly abortions plus the killing that would take place if public funds were made available for embryo-destructive research.
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Frankly, it is hard to imagine circumstance (b) in a society such as ours. No candidate advocating the removal of legal protection against killing for any vulnerable group of innocent people other than unborn children would have a chance of winning a major office in our country. Even those who support the death penalty for first-degree murderers are not advocating policies that result in more than a million killings annually.
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Certainly policies on welfare, national security, the war in Iraq, Social Security or taxes, taken singly or in any combination, do not provide a proportionate reason to vote for a pro-abortion candidate.
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Consider, for example, the war in Iraq. Although Pope John Paul II pleaded for an alternative to the use of military force to meet the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, he did not bind the conscience of Catholics to agree with his judgment on the matter, nor did he say that it would be morally wrong for Catholic soldiers to participate in the war. In line with the teaching of the catechism on “just war,” he recognized that a final judgment of prudence as to the necessity of military force rests with statesmen, not with ecclesiastical leaders. Catholics may, in good conscience, support the use of force in Iraq or oppose it.
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Abortion and embryo-destructive research are different. They are intrinsic and grave evils; no Catholic may legitimately support them. In the context of contemporary American social life, abortion and embryo-destructive research are disproportionate evils. They are the gravest human rights abuses of our domestic politics and what slavery was to the time of Lincoln. Catholics are called by the Gospel of Life to protect the victims of these human rights abuses. They may not legitimately abandon the victims by supporting those who would further their victimization.
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priestsforlife.org/magisterium/bishops/04-09-17myers.htm
 
_Abyssinia said:
Given that Donald Trump has voiced support for abortion restrictions and Hillary Clinton takes a much more extreme view on abortion on him, what proportionate reasons exist for a Catholic to vote for Hillary Clinton?
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What if you believe that Trump is totally unqualified to be President and that his dangerous ideas pose an existential threat to the nation? Combine that with a complete distrust of anything that man says, so that you won’t even get what he “voices support” for. It is not just a matter of minor disagreements on immigration policy or minimum wage. It is a matter of character. That would be a proportionate reason.
 
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