Trump Thread

FollowChrist34 · Mar 31, 2016

Sy_Noe said:
All I have is Rubio in his own words to go by.

Fair enough - just don’t try that with Trump…

gracepoole · Mar 31, 2016

Estevao said:
Having watched the video, I don’t think Trump really affirmed the “punish the woman who contracted the murder” position, Matthews wanted that answer and he “got” it. Then Trump posts his real opinion online and he “flip flopped”.

I, too, saw the video and I don’t know how you can assume that Trump didn’t affirm punishment for women who procure abortions. There wasn’t any spin put on his comment – when asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.

jtauke · Mar 31, 2016

Crossbones said:
If Mr. Trump wins the presidency, then I would assume that the Republicans will hold both houses of Congress. They should be able to pass a law punishing women for abortions if they are truly a pro-life party.

They’d need a supermajority in the senate, else the Dems could just filabuster.

queenofheartscv · Mar 31, 2016

gracepoole said:
I, too, saw the video and I don’t know how you can assume that Trump didn’t affirm punishment for women who procure abortions. There wasn’t any spin put on his comment – when asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.

Is there an official catholic church position on this specific issue? Whether women can or should be chastised/punished for seeking illegal abortion?

Lily_Bernans · Mar 31, 2016

estesbob said:
I hope you are right but I doubt it.

I doubt it, too.

Lily_Bernans · Mar 31, 2016

gracepoole said:
I, too, saw the video and I don’t know how you can assume that Trump didn’t affirm punishment for women who procure abortions. There wasn’t any spin put on his comment – when asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.

He did affirm punishment for women who procure abortions in the Town Hall meeting, but he later said he didn’t mean it.

FollowChrist34 · Mar 31, 2016

gracepoole said:
I, too, saw the video and I don’t know how you can assume that Trump didn’t affirm punishment for women who procure abortions. There wasn’t any spin put on his comment – when asked if he agreed with this, he said yes. Directly. Matthews asked a question and after 5 minutes of deflection, Trump finally answered it.

This reminds me of deconstructionism, dada. It doesn’t matter what Trump says, right? The fact that he is spluttering and incoherent is the least of our worries. To the larger point: how can we possibly know what he would do in terms of policy in the White House if he doesn’t? How can one, within reason, actually know whether or not he/she agrees with Trump? It is impossible. The President is the most powerful man in the world.

Carson is now out there saying that Trump was not forewarned of Matthews’ abortion question - somehow it was not ‘fair.’ Trump was not allowed to prepare in advance.

JimR-OCDS · Mar 31, 2016

Lily_Bernans said:
Carly Fiorina would sink Cruz’a ship just like Sarah Palin sunk McCain’s.

But Cruz’s ship will sink even without Fiorina, if he’s nominated as the GOP candidate.

Jim

queenofheartscv · Mar 31, 2016

FollowChrist34 said:
This reminds me of deconstructionism, dada. It doesn’t matter what Trump says, right? The fact that he is spluttering and incoherent is the least of our worries. To the larger point: how can we possibly know what he would do in terms of policy in the White House if he doesn’t? How can one, within reason, actually know whether or not he/she agrees with Trump? It is impossible. The President is the most powerful man in the world.

Carson is now out there saying that Trump was not forewarned of Matthews’ abortion question - somehow it was not ‘fair.’ Trump was not allowed to prepare in advance.

It was clearly a set up but that’s to be expected with the media. It also doesn’t matter what trump says; he’s bound to offend people no matter what he says, even if he doesn’t answer the question.

FollowChrist34 · Mar 31, 2016

queenofheartscv said:
It was clearly a set up but that’s to be expected with the media. It also doesn’t matter what trump says; he’s bound to offend people no matter what he says, even if he doesn’t answer the question.

Or know the answer.

JimR-OCDS · Mar 31, 2016

gracepoole said:
Or he could think about major social and political issues before sitting down to speak with journalists. That he hasn’t formulated a coherent position on abortion is…scary. Although perhaps no more scary than anything else he’s said…

I found this to be common among business people.

In all my years working with executives in high-tech, none thought much about current events which didn’t effect their business objectives.

Abortion was never part of conversations, even at non-formal dinners and such.

Same was true of wars, other than we have to win and again, business came first.

I think if losing was good for their business, they’d be advocates for the US losing a war.

Jim

JimR-OCDS · Mar 31, 2016

Peter_J said:
Thank you for posting that.

“There is no documented case since 1922 in which a woman was even charged in an abortion in the United States.”

If that doesn’t get people’s attention, I don’t know what will.

But the treatment of women in 1922 and today is far different.

Today, women are treated as equals to men and fully responsible for their reporductive decisions.

In 1922, a man could rape his wife and she had no say about it.

The same was true of men however. A man who didn’t support his wife and children was sent to prison.

Jim

queenofheartscv · Mar 31, 2016

FollowChrist34 said:
Or know the answer.

Who knows the answer to the question? Who honestly thinks this is a settled issue on which no contention can be had?

Maybe the pro-lifers you hang out with know beyond a shadow of doubt women should never be punished but I’m not so sure.

JimR-OCDS · Mar 31, 2016

queenofheartscv said:
Is there an official catholic church position on this specific issue? Whether women can or should be chastised/punished for seeking illegal abortion?

When Chris Matthews asked Bishop Tobin of Rhode Island the exact same question, the Bishop tried to dance around the question and then finally answered that he didn’t have the expertise in writing law to know what penalty should be included.

Jim

queenofheartscv · Mar 31, 2016

JimR-OCDS said:
When Chris Matthews asked Bishop Tobin of Rhode Island the exact same question, the Bishop tried to dance around the question and then finally answered that he didn’t have the expertise in writing law to know what penalty should be included.

Jim

That makes sense. This is such a complex issue where discussions can and probably should be had.

To try to judge trump for not having a definitive answer on the spot is simply not fair.

2_RollinStoned · Mar 31, 2016

First Read: Why Trump’s Controversies Matter for All Republicans

**Revisiting the controversies: **It’s a particularly apt moment to revisit the cases when Trump has either dramatically changed a controversial position in a short period of time or said something so contentious that condemnations from his own party came as fast and furious as they did yesterday. Here’s a list from an extensive sampling of Trump’s reversals and the comments that drew the most intra-party criticism.

**June 2015: On Mexican immigrants: **“They’re bringing drugs, they’re bringing crime, they’re rapists.”
GOP critics included: Marco Rubio, Rick Perry and Jeb Bush

Code:

                                                                                **July 2015: On John McCain:** "I like people who weren't captured." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: Scott Walker, Marco Rubio and the  Republican National Committee

Code:

                                                                                **August 2015: On Megyn Kelly:** "There was …. blood coming out of her, wherever." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: Erick Erickson, Mike Huckabee, Carly  Fiorina

Code:

                                                                                                     **August 2015: On health care:** "As far as single-payer, it works in Canada." 
                                                                                 (He's amended his positions on health care numerous times) 
                                                                                 GOP critics included Erick Erickson, Rick Perry, Reid Ribble

Code:

                                                                                **September 2016: On Carly Fiorina:** "Look at that face!" 
                                                                                 (He later said he was referring to Fiorina's "persona.") 
                                                                                                      GOP critics included: Scott Walker, Jeb  Bush

Code:

                                                                                **November 2015: On 9/11: **"Thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: George Pataki, Jeb Bush

Code:

                                                                                **December 2015:** **On Muslims: **Enact "a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: Reince Priebus, Paul Ryan, Dick Cheney

Code:

                                                                                **February 2016**: **On David Duke's endorsement:** "I know nothing about David Duke." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: Tim Scott, Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan

Code:

                                                                                **February 2016: On waterboarding:** "Torture works." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: Michael Hayden, Lindsey Graham

Code:

                                                                                **March 2016: On Muslims**: "I think Islam hates us." 
                                                                                 GOP critics included Marco Rubio, Jeff Flake

Code:

                                                                                **March 2016:** **On military leaders and torture**: "When I say they'll do as I tell them, they'll do as I tell them." 
                                                                                 (He later clarified to say he acknowledges international  laws.) 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: A group of 70 Republican foreign  policy experts who penned an open letter to Trump on the subject

Code:

                                                                                **March 2016:** **On women seeking an abortion:** "There has to be some form of punishment, yeah." 
                                                                                (He changed his position within hours) 
                                                                                 GOP critics included: SBA List, March for Life, Ted Cruz

Interesting and important information

JimR-OCDS · Mar 31, 2016

queenofheartscv said:
That makes sense. This is such a complex issue where discussions can and probably should be had.

To try to judge trump for not having a definitive answer on the spot is simply not fair.

But the issue has to be thought through before deciding to run for national political office.

There are issues which he seems weak on, and that is how laws are made and passed in the US Government.

He comes across as if the president is like a CEO who can fire people who don’t go along with his proposals.

Jim

queenofheartscv · Mar 31, 2016

JimR-OCDS said:
But the issue has to be thought through before deciding to run for national political office.

There are issues which he seems weak on, and that is how laws are made and passed in the US Government.

He comes across as if the president is like a CEO who can fire people who don’t go along with his proposals.

Jim

How can he have thought through this issue if the catholic church hasn’t even thought through it???

He can’t make this decision by himself in real life. He can’t dictate what to do with a woman having an illegal abortion. The country has to decide that. The Church and the pro-life movement all have to contribute to the conversation.

FollowChrist34 · Mar 31, 2016

queenofheartscv said:
Who knows the answer to the question? Who honestly thinks this is a settled issue on which no contention can be had?

Maybe the pro-lifers you hang out with know beyond a shadow of doubt women should never be punished but I’m not so sure.

Well, I do know what the GOP platform is on this issue. I do know what the conservative prolifers in Wisconsin believe on this issue. This puts me quite a bit ahead of Trump. Not that I am bragging. Every other GOP candidate and probably around 99% of the GOP voters are completely aware of the GOP position on this issue too.

The purpose of a political campaign is to inform the electorate of one’s values, priorities and goals for the country; to seek to serve and further the interests of one’s supporters. Not wing it, completely alienate and offend the base you are trying to represent. Al Sharpton could have gotten out of that question better. This campaign is a job interview.

Mary_Gail_36 · Mar 31, 2016

queenofheartscv said:
How can he have thought through this issue if the catholic church hasn’t even thought through it???

He can’t make this decision by himself in real life. He can’t dictate what to do with a woman having an illegal abortion. The country has to decide that. The Church and the pro-life movement all have to contribute to the conversation.

What can you possibly mean the Catholic Church hasn’t thought through this? Perhaps look at Evangelium Vitae the encyclical by St. Pope John Paul?

Your candidate is running as a republican and trying to attract conservatives and among those conservatives prolife conservatives. And he was unprepared.

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