Trump tries to smear Martin Gugino, Catholic Peace Activist

[Randolph]

He was a Catholic volunteer and had been for years.

Gugino is no innocent old man. Looking his questionable comments, and actions. As a Catholic, I don’t want to have any association with him.

Mind you that have been many “Catholic” people and clergies who did not serve the Church well.

 

[pnewton]

Neither is he to you.

I only made factual points and make a point to avoid both leftist and rightist media. You are the one that gave “well-known” characterizations. Victim blaming is a dangerous thing as it is. What is being said about him is the equivalent of blaming the rape victim that went to a bar, was promiscuous, or dressed provocative. Even if some of that was true, they are just as much the victim.

 

[VonDerTann]

Everyone saw my methods…

…just as soon as I pointed them out.

 

[Randolph]

I only made factual points and make a point to avoid both leftist and rightist media. You are the one that gave “well-known” characterizations. Victim blaming is a dangerous thing as it is. What is being said about him is the equivalent of blaming the rape victim that went to a bar, was promiscuous, or dressed provocative. Even if some of that was true, they are just as much the victim.

Gugino is a indeed a long time and “well known” agitator in Buffalo, NY. I am not blaming any victim. Just don’t go there!!! Gugino is no innocent white old man…

 

[pnewton]

I am not blaming any victim. Just don’t go there!!!

You say you are not. I will let your own words speak for you.

In any case, as I said earlier, police action is tactical, not strategic. His past did not matter, only his current circumstance.

For those who are interested in the proper way to clear an area like that, the police are lined up correctly, the line moving forward in front does so slower than the did to give people time to clear out. Those that do not, the separate and go around them. Then the people in back take them and cuff them. Those at in the back move them to a holding area. That is how we do it. It works well, especially with horses. It looks like after cracking Martin cracked his skull they did it to the next protester.

 

[Nepperhan]

Everyone saw my methods…

…just as soon as I pointed them out.

I saw your methods ahead of time and you quibbled and caviled. If you have something to say, just state it.

Time to move on.

 

[blackforest]

Calling out a human rights violation is not a mere “armchair strategy.” It’s our obligation as Catholics. Fortunately, I have our Bishops on my side. Statement of U.S. Bishops’ President on George Floyd and the Protests in American Cities | USCCB

This doubles as fulfilling the request from @FiveLinden for Church teaching. And while I have his/her tagged attention, here’s a bishop’s response to the assault on Martin Gugino. Catholic bishop of Buffalo ‘honors witness’ of Martin Gugino

That these police lied and said “tripped and fell” already puts a serious dent in their credibility.

 

[pnewton]

Here is what his friends say about him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/reli...lic-peace-activist-not-an-antifa-provocateur/

 

[StudentMI]

Of course his friends will speak well of him. What’s surprising about that?

 

[Randolph]

You say you are not. I will let your own words speak for you.

In any case, as I said earlier, police action is tactical, not strategic. His past did not matter, only his current circumstance.

For those who are interested in the proper way to clear an area like that, the police are lined up correctly, the line moving forward in front does so slower than the did to give people time to clear out. Those that do not, the separate and go around them. Then the people in back take them and cuff them. Those at in the back move them to a holding area. That is how we do it. It works well, especially with horses. It looks like after cracking Martin cracked his skull they did it to the next protester.

Where were my own words?? They were all your own words. You need to get a grip of yourself and stop going off tangents…throwing blames and placing accusations all over the place.

 

[pnewton]

There also was his bishop. I am trying to find more, but as Catholics, what is it we are supposed to do first in a situation like this where not all is known?

 

[StudentMI]

Not judge either side, including the cops.

 

[VonDerTann]

Actually you do NOT “have the bishops on your side,” and you shouldn’t claim to. The link you cite makes no reference to the incident or this agitator.

 

[pnewton]

Not judge either side, including the cops.

We cannot judge what we do not see, like their hearts or motives, but at least that one one action of the officer in the middle stepping forward is a fact not in question. The charitable interpretation there is that they only intended to push him safely back, though like I said, the second guy they encountered they pulled forward and arrested.

The link you cite makes no reference to the incident or this agitator.

There is this from the link above:

“We stand with all who demonstrate peacefully and speak out against abuse of power and injustice of every kind,” Bishop Edward Scharfenberger, apostolic administrator of the diocese of Buffalo, said on Wednesday evening regarding the case of Martin Gugino, a 75 year-old man who is a peace activist in the Catholic Worker Movement founded by Servant of God Dorothy Day.

“We honor Mr. Gugino’s witness and service to the Catholic Worker Movement,” Scharfenberger said in a statement provided to CNA.

 

[Randolph]

Here is what his friends say about him.

—Why did Gugino tweet: “F*ck the police.”?
—Why did Gugino provoke the police and try to force himself through them?
—Why wouldn’t Gugino’s friends say nice things about him?

Like many of those who had been in peaceful protests, the police are not the enemies. It never occurred to me to provoke the police and forced myself through the police line. In fact, during protests, it’s good to have police presence. They not only provide law enforcements, but also protect protesters from other protestors.

 

[VonDerTann]

That’s hardly taking his side. It’s more like “we’re sorry he got hurt.”

 

[LilyM]

pnewton:

Here is what his friends say about him.

—Why did Gugino tweet: “F*ck the police.”?
—Why did Gugino provoke the police and try to force himself through them?
—Why wouldn’t Gugino’s friends say nice things about him?

Like many of those who had been in peaceful protests, the police are not the enemies. It never occurred to me to provoke the police and forced myself through the police line. In fact, during protests, it’s good to have police presence. They not only provide law enforcements, but also protect protesters from other protestors.

There is a massive difference between a verbal insult aimed at police - or.even trying to break through a line - and an intent or incitement to physically do them harm. The latter, of course, is the only instance that really should incite an.aggressive physical response.

As an example - I.recently had a co-worker leave in less than.happy circumstances. Were they highly critical of management, including occasional.uae of the f-bomb? Yes. Were they showing any tendency to.physical.expression.against those they said this about? Absolutely not!

Is an f-bomb (which police anyway presumably wouldn’t have been aware of if it was a tweet) justification for a shove?

By the way - why would Gugino HAVE so many friends willing to stand up for him.if he was such a thorough scoundrel?

 

[StudentMI]

By the way - why would Gugino HAVE so many friends willing to stand up for him.if he was such a thorough scoundrel?

Some of the biggest scoundrels I’ve known had friends to spare.

 

[Randolph]

There is a massive difference between a verbal insult aimed at police - or.even trying to break through a line - and an intent or incitement to physically do them harm. The latter, of course, is the only instance that really should incite an.aggressive physical response.

As an example - I.recently had a co-worker leave in less than.happy circumstances. Were they highly critical of management, including occasional.uae of the f-bomb? Yes. Were they showing any tendency to.physical.expression.against those they said this about? Absolutely not!

Is an f-bomb (which police anyway presumably wouldn’t have been aware of if it was a tweet) justification for a shove?

By the way - why would Gugino HAVE so many friends willing to stand up for him.if he was such a thorough scoundrel?

I would not describe Gugino as a scoundrel. That is your word. I said he is not an innocent old man. He has a long history of being anti-police and anti-government. He is not exactly a peaceful protestor as he has been portrayed by his supporters. Gugino has a personal agenda.

Riot police are trained to maintain their line/position and to make sure that their line/position is not breached. When people show physical aggression toward the police, they are trained to protect themselves. That’s Gugino did. He approached, provoked and physically forced himself into the police.He then got pushed back by the police. Furthermore, the police at the time were also carrying weapons. Who is to say if Gugino (or any aggressors) would not grab the weapons on the police and use the weapons against them??

As for your scroundrels-friends comment, turning a page of any history would prove your point wrong.

 

[VonDerTann]

By the way - why would Gugino HAVE so many friends willing to stand up for him.if he was such a thorough scoundrel?

–Because his friends are scoundrels too.

People find their niche. Crooked lawyers and crooked clients find each other. Antifa thugs find other Antifa thugs and they work together to take over 6 blocks of Seattle and cause mayhem. And rabble-rousing, “F*** the police”-tweeting agitators find others just like them.

Is an f-bomb (which police anyway presumably wouldn’t have been aware of if it was a tweet) justification for a shove?

–The F-Bomb shows who this man was: Someone who hated police. It gives insight that he was in fact there to instigate problems or perhaps even attack the police: He tweets “F*** the police,” then runs up to them and grabs at one of their gun belts. He wasn’t there to give them flowers. Did the police know of his tweets? Well, the Mayor certainly knew him to be a troublemaker. In the end, what it shows is who this man was.

–If his tweet was no big deal, why did he delete it after the incident?

It seems to me that a lot of posters are willing to excuse his behavior - which was offensive; agitating; dangerous; and just foolish – because he had some “catholic worker” history, as if he was some “male version of Dorothy Day” or as if some claimed interest on his part in the “Catholic worker movement” excuses his hostility to police; social agitation; and offensiveness. It doesn’t, and it makes Catholics who defend him, while not condemning police victims of rioting, look like they are on the wrong side of events.

The more I find out about this agitator, the more I want to be on the side who he opposed. He’s no one to hold up as some sort of hero.