Trump tries to smear Martin Gugino, Catholic Peace Activist

[LilyM]

LilyM:

Weird is.not the same as threatening. Certainly not illegal. If he was the latter, why no charges?

It certainly seemed odd to the cops. Not to mention they were marching and he was obstructing them. It was a simple push. From the way people described it here you’d think he used both arms straight out running up to the guy to push him as far as possible.

And from.the way other people.here are talking, you would think he was holding a Molotov cocktail and threatening to throw it at the police or the equivalent …

 

[StudentMI]

And from.the way other people.here are talking, you would think he was holding a Molotov cocktail and threatening to throw it at the police or the equivalent …

Yeah cause waving your phone over badges and not stepping out of the way of police marching is normal behavior.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM:

And from.the way other people.here are talking, you would think he was holding a Molotov cocktail and threatening to throw it at the police or the equivalent …

Yeah cause waving your phone over badges and not stepping out of the way of police marching is normal behavior.

About as normal as stepping up to an armed person and sticking a flower in the barrel of their gun, I guess …

 

[StudentMI]

About as normal as stepping up to an armed person and sticking a flower in the barrel of their gun, I guess …

Yeah except one was stationary and not waving a recording device in front of an officer. The other, well.

 

[LilyM]

LilyM:

About as normal as stepping up to an armed person and sticking a flower in the barrel of their gun, I guess …

Yeah except one was stationary and not waving a recording device in front of an officer. The other, well.

Uhh … placing something rrequires movement, so not stationary. She could .have been concealing a weapon in that hand after all …

And if the phone was an issue, what was the push supposed to achieve? I didn’t notice anyone try to take the phone from.him, for example.

 

[LilyM]

Honestly, the more I look.at the video, the stranger it is.

Mr Gugino appears to be more or less on his own among maybe a dozen police. He walks at an unhurried pace up to some, has some sort of apparently brief interaction (admittedly my phone screen is small so I can’t see it well), then is given a barked order of “move!” about a millisecond before he is shoved. Seemingly given no tine to comply if he wanted to. And he is shoved TOWARDS, not away from, the street, the area the police.were trying to.clear.

Then after he is on the ground for a few seconds, a bystander comes into view, much more agitated, literally screaming “what the f…” but, despite seeming to be far more.of.a.threat, is being detained and escorted away by very calm police - in the complete opposite direction to that in which Mr Gugino was pushed.

It really doesn’t make sense.

 

[pnewton]

If you can’t win, try religious guilt.

That argument can make sense, but you need to show where the guilt was not justified. After all, we do believe in sin.

You can’t win, which his why you are grasping at any straw to smear the poor.schmo.

We have a long sordid history of blaming victims for crimes committed against them. I guess that will not change.

I disbelieve his fall was caused by the police.

We must have watched a different video. I could not even tell that the cell phone “attack” mad contact. If you really think that contact happened and the shove did not, or that he busted his head on purpose, all I can say is the video is there for anyone to make up their own mind.

And to be clear, I have a hard time trusting the sincerity of anyone.

I understand the attraction to that. You can go through life thinking the best of everyone, or go through thinking the worst of everyone. If the latter, you will never be disappointed, however, you will also never be happy. Best to take chances, use a little caution and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Not to mention they were marching and he was obstructing them. It was a simple push.

Very true, though it was a rather forceful push. I think most people would have been able to recover their feet fast enough to move back with the push, but not this elderly man, which is why I say the totality of the circumstances have to be weighed, and why I think, they switch from pushing, to going around protesters and arresting them behind the lines.

It might even be that the motive of this push was that they did not want to arrest the old man. Nonetheless, this sort of problem is why I do not like the militarization of the police.

 

[Sarcelle]

What if he was waving a flower and still got shoved to the ground?

Who will be blamed this time?

Will it be the cops or the old man?

 

[Sarcelle]

Nonetheless, this sort of problem is why I do not like the militarization of the police.

This is one of the problems.

The militarization of police gives rise to the view of the public as enemy combatants, shoot first ask questions later.

The same public that pays their salaries. Talk about shooting the hand that feeds you.

 

[Shakuhachi]

I don’t need a political fact checker to tell me what I observe with my own eyes: His “fall” looks like a flop. I have no doubt his injuries happened; I just doubt his fall was caused by the police.

At 76 balance is not great. Police certainly did not intend to push him down, just back. But lost his balance, fell to the ground, and happened to hit his head. No “flop”.

 

[StudentMI]

What if he was waving a flower and still got shoved to the ground?

Who will be blamed this time?

Will it be the cops or the old man?

Oh in that case obviously it would be the cops. Too bad that’s not what happened here.

 

[StudentMI]

I understand the attraction to that. You can go through life thinking the best of everyone, or go through thinking the worst of everyone. If the latter, you will never be disappointed, however, you will also never be happy. Best to take chances, use a little caution and give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

 

[JoHab]

My only comment on this is this: Is Trump Catholic? My husband has recently converted to Baptist from Catholicism and his views and mine most certainly do not agree any longer. He’s also a Trumper and feels the man can do no wrong. (This said to show where his mind is). I went with him to his church a few times and must say that I felt they preached more about divisiveness than togetherness. He also feels that his way of Christianity is the only way and apparently I’ll be going to hell for not believing as he does. But I digress, that’s another subject for another day.

 

[commenter]

The so called militarization is mainly protective equipment necessitated by the drastically different Protests/riots the exist today, far more violent than in the past. Do you want the police equipped to meet the needs of 1965, or 2020?

The media keeps chanting that the protesters are totally separate from rioters and looters. But the riots and looting are mostly right after the protests, about the same place.

If civilians are gonna be hurt, stores looted, buildings trashed, the police don’t know exactly when, so they have to be there in advance.

There is no responsibility taken by the protesters for the riots. So it seems they shouldn’t be dictating police gear in preparation for those riots.

 

[pnewton]

Protests/riots the exist today, far more violent than in the past.

Have you actually seen the protests from the late 60’s? In 1968, there were two assignations and the Tet offensive. All of that prior to the Democratic National Convention!

There is no responsibility taken by the protesters for the riots.

That is a rather blanket falsehood. I have seen numerous times when protesters have helped police and stopped violence. This is a big country. It needs a more precise brush.

 

[Sarcelle]

See below. Whatever the reason, this mindset contributes to the police viewing the public as the enemy and as a result the public now views the police as the enemy

Do you think anything good will come out of this?

I’m not surprised for calls of defunding police if people think they will be more likely killed by police than by a thug. Especially if cops will shoot first and ask questions later.

Reports and Analyses

 

[commenter]

Here is one of the horrors that the framers of the report you cited were alarmed over:
"under Trump the Justice Department has assembled a commission …(addressing)
“the need to promote public respect for the law and law enforcement officers.”

That - the need to warn us of what they consider a threat - tells us a lot about the alarmed Democrats who wrote the report.

 

[Sarcelle]

Where do you get the idea that these are Democrats?

If the police can barge into your house without identifying themselves and then shoot you several times, how is the public supposed to respect this? The police have acted as an invading force.

From the same I article I referenced. The cops who are guilty of this have not been charged and will likely never be charged. Are we supposed to respect this?

One such tragedy is the May 13, 2020 killing of Breonna Taylor, a Black woman, in Louisville, Kentucky, during the botched execution of a “no-knock” search warrant. The warrant was not for Taylor. Using a battering ram, police forcibly entered the residence without announcing who they were and shot Taylor eight times.

 

[Sarcelle]

Here is another article on police going into people’s houses without identifying themselves.

A Father Defends His Daughter with a Shotgun When Cops Break Into the Wrong House

 

[Sarcelle]

This is an excerpt from the article I referenced.

Perhaps most troublingly, militarization has led to a cultural shift in law enforcement’s view of its role in society from guardian to that of warrior. Police training modeled on military boot camp—which, according to former Justice Department policy analyst Karl Bickel, “tends to create an ‘us versus them’ mind set in rookie officers”—can have a profoundly adverse effect on how a police officer views their role in the community and the individuals who reside in it. Recruitment of new officers that focuses on a warrior mentality also fails to attract applicants who would be best suited to protect and serve the community, rather than viewing community members as the opponent.

Dispatching an officer trained at the academy to operate out of fear—who may view community members as a threat and is clad in a battle dress uniform—to handle a volatile situation such as a mass demonstration is a recipe for disaster.

Police also don’t need to dress in the trappings of battle-ready members of the armed services for militarization to contribute to poisoning their policing mindset.