Trump v. Clinton matchup has Catholic leaders scrambling

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He is misquoted and I showed how and on this thread. There is no argument about it.
When the poster provides direct quotes, then the bishop is not being misquoted. The only way he was misquoted is if the author of the article did not transcribe her words correctly.
I view all the teaching of the Church unlike the failed theory of one misquoted Bishop in a bad sola reading of what another thinks he is saying and wrongly I might add. Thats what personal interpretation is. And as I said while neglecting “all” other. Let alone CAF which you have to throw under the bus along with EWTN, and while ignoring the preponderance of evidence is some sola rendition reading of one Bishop.
We frequently hear on this site how only specific teachings should be considered. While I do not agree with this view, I do note that in Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it says

“During election years, there may be many handouts and voter guides that are produced
and distributed. We encourage Catholics to seek those resources authorized by their own
bishops, their state Catholic conferences, and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. This statement is intended to reflect and complement, not substitute for, the ongoing teaching of bishops in our own dioceses and states.”

I am concerned that some wish to use other sources even through the USCCB or direct quotes from bishops even though there is a clear message that that where voters should seek this information.
The entire American population must be wrong about Hillary leading the Unfavorable/Untrustworthy category. Nothing makes her more palatable.
That said it doesn’t matter if its Bernie or Hillary as the new leftist democratic socialist platform is diametrically opposed to Catholicism/Orthodoxy. Its doesn’t matter if its Joe Biden etc. They persecute the religious and their liberty. And I guess admittedly by democrats as they have no argument just a bad comparison. But the fact is that doesn’t matter as this party itself is diametrically opposed to Orthodoxy. Its become an enemy of Christs Church. They have doubled down and call the Little Sisters of the Poor a “win”. I guess thats a redeeming quality for Catholic Democrats. The good of which there is none outweighs the intentional evil persecution. What a point-one sola reading of bishop.
Thank you for your personal interpretation of Church teachings. Of course, I think it is important for all Catholics to review all Church teachings including Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenships and direct quotations from bishops and make their own determination on how to vote based on their understanding of these documents in conjunction with their own well-formed consciences.
 
If the general election does turn out to be between Hillary and Trump, I believe the kitchen sink is next!
Well, the system was set for Clinton on the DNC side. The RNC never saw Trump coming and didn’t listen to their base, so that’s pretty much a given.

Could see a Romney-type run as a third party, I suppose.

Otherwise, it’s ready to go!
 
You know what would be really funny? And I know it’s a serious topic, but please bear with me. Getting Trump into a situation where he could be presented with an on the spot “quiz” on the non-negotiables - no advisers, no one to prompt the correct responses! I would absolutely pay to see that!
Well, he’d better out-perform The DNC nominee if he wants my vote!

Voting Trump has been largely an emotional response from the GOP base. I’ve warned over and over that no republican or conservative or even a libertarian for that matter will ever out-feel a liberal in politics.

Now, the GOP is essentially going to have to nominate him to have any sort of chance to win the White House (many republicans WILL vote for the Democrat if nothing else for a chance at a promotion of sorts) and some of the elite have been going over whether or not to support Trump in lieu of damaging their image for 2020. Of course, if its them vs. a Democrat, it really won’t matter since most the mainstream media all but openly advocates for Democrats to win.

The GOP base voting in this primary has been disappointing in my view because of the Supreme Court, which has become an issue now. It’s a gamble who Trump will give us, especially since the Roberts appointment has not gone as planned.

Pretty inexcusable when we had a perfectly good candidate with a conservative track record like Ted Cruz.
 
Therefore the Catholic voter has a proportionate reason to vote for candidate (B, Bush) since his vote may help to ensure the defeat of candidate (A, Kerry) and may result in the saving of some innocent human lives if candidate (B, Bush) is elected and introduces legislation restricting abortion-on-demand. In such a case, the Catholic voter would have chosen the lesser of two evils, which is morally permissible under these circumstances."

Bishop Joseph A. Galante
Bishop Galante reflects the same sentiment of the voter’s guide here. It is morally permissible to vote for the lesser of two evils. What not bishop has ever said is that it is morally obligatory, or that it is even best.
 
Well, he’d better out-perform The DNC nominee if he wants my vote!

Voting Trump has been largely an emotional response from the GOP base. I’ve warned over and over that no republican or conservative or even a libertarian for that matter will ever out-feel a liberal in politics.

Now, the GOP is essentially going to have to nominate him to have any sort of chance to win the White House (many republicans WILL vote for the Democrat if nothing else for a chance at a promotion of sorts) and some of the elite have been going over whether or not to support Trump in lieu of damaging their image for 2020. Of course, if its them vs. a Democrat, it really won’t matter since most the mainstream media all but openly advocates for Democrats to win.

The GOP base voting in this primary has been disappointing in my view because of the Supreme Court, which has become an issue now. It’s a gamble who Trump will give us, especially since the Roberts appointment has not gone as planned.

Pretty inexcusable when we had a perfectly good candidate with a conservative track record like Ted Cruz.
I agree with you that Cruz is a true blue (or true red?) conservative, and if Trump had not jumped into the race, Cruz, or perhaps Walker, might have been the GOP nominee. But Cruz could just not compete with such a charismatic celebrity outsider as Trump; maybe in a different election cycle things would have turned out otherwise.
 
When the poster provides direct quotes, then the bishop is not being misquoted. The only way he was misquoted is if the author of the article did not transcribe her words correctly.
Not a very convincing point as a direct quote could be interpreted differently and I posted what I indeed believe Bishop Kicanas meant and in relation to the USCCB. I’m rather surprised you chose a rare voice to validate your interpretation of what your think the USCCB is stating, by the two sources to me it seems suspect. He’s not even your Bishop I really don’t understand what your saying
We frequently hear on this site how only specific teachings should be considered. While I do not agree with this view, I do note that in Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship, it says
Seems to me from reading above thats how you arrived at your conclusion. But we already had this debate, the USCCB isn’t the Church Mag-teaching authority and the Mag, and your own Bishop in unison is the authority. So again I fail to see what your saying. Your Bishop isn’t the above mentioned Bishop Kicanas, nor does the USCCB top Church Mag-teaching authority. In fact I find that to be dubious point being honest.
“During election years, there may be many handouts and voter guides that are produced
and distributed. We encourage Catholics to seek those resources authorized by their own
bishops, their state Catholic conferences, and the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. This statement is intended to reflect and complement, not substitute for, the ongoing teaching of bishops in our own dioceses and states.”
authorized by their own bishops

And you point is? Bishop Kicanas and the USCCB amount to your point but is he your Bishop? Im confused at what your saying.
I am concerned that some wish to use other sources even through the USCCB or direct quotes from bishops even though there is a clear message that that where voters should seek this information.
Yes above clarifies that issue Mag-your Bishop. The other information is just that other information. And be it they are Bishops quotes coming from EWTN, CAF or the USCCB.
Thank you for your personal interpretation of Church teachings. .
And thanks for your thoughts on Bishop Kicanas and the USCCB?
Of course, I think it is important for all Catholics to review all Church teachings including Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenships and direct quotations from bishops and make their own determination on how to vote based on their understanding of these documents in conjunction with their own well-formed consciences.
Its important to understand the Vatican-Mag is the teaching authority and your Bishop in communion with the Church is your authority and from their to form your conscience by reading all the Church teaching and in relevance to authority which means encyclicals-Popes etc. And that includes EWTN, CAF or whereever a Bishop is quoted and further the Priests etc. And in consensus that includes the USCCB. The social teaching of the Church and human rights is just that, theres no priority here to women killing off their own sex there is no morality/human rights after that absurdity of oh 75% convenience. And to be clear when the Bishop your quoting actually was quoted there was a unjust war going on. Further as I clearly stated many Popes have come out condemning socialization/socialism of any type, let alone socialized medicine. This is another major issue, socialized forced meds against religious freedom-persecution at the door. Obamacare being forced to pay out for workers’ contraception that they oppose on the grounds of religious liberty. Which I posted above. You have as I say a issue here not just with a hand full of issues of voting, but an entire party. And from the teaching authority, which the USCCB isn’t speaking on in that article, socialism/socialized meds, and which you seem to think has this all powerful authority along with a fellow not your Bishop. So umm, should we say we disagree?
 
Oh my goodness, truer words were never spoken. His supporters have given Trump a permanent Get Out of Jail Free tattoo. It’s fascinating how wealth and celebrity and dazzle really do draw us to people.

But as Mrs. Clinton herself has said, decades of having everything thrown at her but the kitchen sink and she’s still standing!
You should just listen to any of his many full interviews, available on YouTube. Trump is well known to engage on any questions that are presented.

Hillary is the one that rarely takes questions and her interviews are highly scripted.
 
Not a very convincing point as a direct quote could be interpreted differently and I posted what I indeed believe Bishop Kicanas meant and in relation to the USCCB. I’m rather surprised you chose a rare voice to validate your interpretation of what your think the USCCB is stating, by the two sources to me it seems suspect. He’s not even your Bishop I really don’t understand what your saying
It is a direct quote though. He is not being misquoted as you said. You are welcome to your own personal interpretation of his words, but they are his words.
Seems to me from reading above thats how you arrived at your conclusion. But we already had this debate, the USCCB isn’t the Church Mag-teaching authority and the Mag, and your own Bishop in unison is the authority. So again I fail to see what your saying. Your Bishop isn’t the above mentioned Bishop Kicanas, nor does the USCCB top Church Mag-teaching authority. In fact I find that to be dubious point being honest.
Forming Consciences was approved by the bishops present 221-21. It is presented to many parishioners in Church bulletins and on diocesan websites. I think many bishops intended it to be a teaching document. Furthermore, I think the teachings of the bishops are worth review even if it is not my particular bishop. After all, I think we’ve all read direct quotes from Cardinal Burke, who is no longer a bishop in the United States.
authorized by their own bishops
And you point is? Bishop Kicanas and the USCCB amount to your point but is he your Bishop? Im confused at what your saying.
I’m not saying anything in what you quoted. That is straight from Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.
Yes above clarifies that issue Mag-your Bishop. The other information is just that other information. And be it they are Bishops quotes coming from EWTN, CAF or the USCCB.
I have no problems with quotations of bishops from anywhere. On the other hand, I was explaining why I use Forming Consciences as opposed to looking at Catholic voter guides that are from organizations run by lay people.
And thanks for your thoughts on Bishop Kicanas and the USCCB?
I think you are thanking me for direct quotes.
Its important to understand the Vatican-Mag is the teaching authority and your Bishop in communion with the Church is your authority and from their to form your conscience by reading all the Church teaching and in relevance to authority which means encyclicals-Popes etc. And that includes EWTN, CAF or whereever a Bishop is quoted and further the Priests etc. And in consensus that includes the USCCB. The social teaching of the Church and human rights is just that, theres no priority here to women killing off their own sex there is no morality/human rights after that absurdity of oh 75% convenience. And to be clear when the Bishop your quoting actually was quoted there was a unjust war going on. Further as I clearly stated many Popes have come out condemning socialization/socialism of any type, let alone socialized medicine. This is another major issue, socialized forced meds against religious freedom-persecution at the door. Obamacare being forced to pay out for workers’ contraception that they oppose on the grounds of religious liberty. Which I posted above. You have as I say a issue here not just with a hand full of issues of voting, but an entire party. And from the teaching authority, which the USCCB isn’t speaking on in that article, socialism/socialized meds, and which you seem to think has this all powerful authority along with a fellow not your Bishop. So umm, should we say we disagree?
Again, thank you for your personal interpretation of Church teaching. I’m sure Catholics can review all the documentation and use their well-formed consciences to understand it and determine who to vote for.
 
It is a direct quote though. He is not being misquoted as you said. You are welcome to your own personal interpretation of his words, but they are his words.

Forming Consciences was approved by the bishops present 221-21. It is presented to many parishioners in Church bulletins and on diocesan websites. I think many bishops intended it to be a teaching document. Furthermore, I think the teachings of the bishops are worth review even if it is not my particular bishop. After all, I think we’ve all read direct quotes from Cardinal Burke, who is no longer a bishop in the United States.

I’m not saying anything in what you quoted. That is straight from Forming Consciences for Faithful Citizenship.

I have no problems with quotations of bishops from anywhere. On the other hand, I was explaining why I use Forming Consciences as opposed to looking at Catholic voter guides that are from organizations run by lay people.

I think you are thanking me for direct quotes.

Again, thank you for your personal interpretation of Church teaching. I’m sure Catholics can review all the documentation and use their well-formed consciences to understand it and determine who to vote for.
If, indeed, the above was the vote among those who voted, it’s still a minority of the U.S. bishops.

But perhaps more importantly, there is no contradiction between what the USCCB letter said and what Cdl Burke said other than the fact that some choose to interpret the USCCB letter as relativistic, which it actually isn’t, whereas it’s not possible to do that with what Cdl Burke said since his statement was more focused on one thing.
 
Catholics are scrambling in a race likely to pit one candidate whose immigration views clash with Church teaching, against another supporting same-sex marriage, abortion and contraception.

cruxnow.com/church/2016/05/09/trump-v-clinton-matchup-has-catholic-leaders-scrambling/
Trump is also at odds with Church teachings on racism, greed, arrogance, climate change, and other environmental issues.

His solution to the abortion problem is just kill everyone thru environmental harms and fomenting conflict – which would be a effective way to end abortion, poverty, and other world problems. But, of course, be sure to insult them to the core beforehand so they won’t really regret leaving this world so much.

Trump and his evil ilk. Lovely choice, but not for good standing Catholics who really care about life and Church teachings.
 
Again, thank you for your personal interpretation of Church teaching. I’m sure Catholics can review all the documentation and use their well-formed consciences to understand it and determine who to vote for.
Your welcome I would also add papal encyclicals Rerum Novarum (Pope Leo XIII, 1891), Quadragesimo Annus (Pope Pius XI, 1931) and Centesimus Annus (Pope John Paul II, 1991) which all warn against socialism. They can help forming the conscience on socialism/socialized medication and the current situation of the Democratic socialist party-thus socialized medication contrary to religious freedom/Obamacare. Which has been found to be severely lacking in defense of human life, religious freedom, and with funding of abortion and which imposed mandates on employers and individuals, against their conscience which is a grave disturbance.

Very reason socialism fails is it undermines the religious liberty, and in wrongly applied justice, liberty and personal freedom are compromised, and it becomes a form of dictation by forcing a ideal contrary to its supposed intent of justice, and via by socialized medicine against religious freedom and further personal freedom free from government control which it implies its all for. Thus… 'If you like your health care plan," became I’ll force you to like it against your religious freedom and conscience and probably unfortunate in many a case due to real need. It still makes the entire concept wrong and for sure the very reason the Church has spoke out so brilliant on socialism and socialized meds and why this very concept is indeed in court and dubious as is the party platform as noted with the Little Sisters.

And yes thanks
 
Trump is also at odds with Church teachings on racism, greed, arrogance, climate change, and other environmental issues.

His solution to the abortion problem is just kill everyone thru environmental harms and fomenting conflict – which would be a effective way to end abortion, poverty, and other world problems. But, of course, be sure to insult them to the core beforehand so they won’t really regret leaving this world so much.

Trump and his evil ilk. Lovely choice, but not for good standing Catholics who really care about life and Church teachings.
Trump was against the Iraq War, while Clinton was for it. Trump was against the war against Libya, while Clinton was the architect of it. So you think Trump is the more likely to foment conflict?

And what makes you think he wants to kill anybody? What has he done to make you think that?
 
If, indeed, the above was the vote among those who voted, it’s still a minority of the U.S. bishops.
This is why it is important to ensure that your bishop supports Forming Consciences.
But perhaps more importantly, there is no contradiction between what the USCCB letter said and what Cdl Burke said other than the fact that some choose to interpret the USCCB letter as relativistic, which it actually isn’t, whereas it’s not possible to do that with what Cdl Burke said since his statement was more focused on one thing.
Of course, a lack of contradiction does not mean that the USCCB document supports Cardinal Burke’s view. After all, the Surgeon General can say that to maintain your health through diet and exercise and Dr. Oz can say you can maintain your health by 30 minutes on an exercise bicycle every day, then Dr. Oz isn’t saying anything contradictory to the Surgeon General, however, he most certainly is going beyond the intention of Surgeon General.
 
Trump was against the Iraq War, while Clinton was for it. Trump was against the war against Libya, while Clinton was the architect of it. So you think Trump is the more likely to foment conflict?

And what makes you think he wants to kill anybody? What has he done to make you think that?
Well, sadly, it turns out that Trump wasn’t quite against the Iraq War. See buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/in-2002-donald-trump-said-he-supported-invading-iraq-on-the?utm_term=.rf0XKd5Vq#.qc9mvdqzx
 
Trump was against the Iraq War, while Clinton was for it. Trump was against the war against Libya, while Clinton was the architect of it. So you think Trump is the more likely to foment conflict?

And what makes you think he wants to kill anybody? What has he done to make you think that?
If anything he sounds like a foreign policy isolationist - at times, at least.
 
This is why it is important to ensure that your bishop supports Forming Consciences.

Of course, a lack of contradiction does not mean that the USCCB document supports Cardinal Burke’s view. After all, the Surgeon General can say that to maintain your health through diet and exercise and Dr. Oz can say you can maintain your health by 30 minutes on an exercise bicycle every day, then Dr. Oz isn’t saying anything contradictory to the Surgeon General, however, he most certainly is going beyond the intention of Surgeon General.
My bishop will, I’m sure, form his own opinions without (name removed by moderator)ut from me. And that’s what he ought to do. It’s not a matter of diocesan vote.

Actually, the USCCB letter does support Cdl Burke’s view. The Catholic Church claims to have teaching authority on faith and morals, so it isn’t a matter of some tangential thing like diet and exercise, about which people may (and always do) differ, and about which they can morally differ because it is fact-dependent and one can disagree on the facts.

The USCCB says supporting abortion is a grave and intrinsic evil which we must always oppose EXCEPT when there is an equally grave or greater intrinsic evil to be opposed in doing so. Cdl Burke says the same thing. He just more practically applied it in the last previous election.

There is no fact issue in elective abortion. It’s binary. The child lives or dies. There is no disagreement about what 'dead" is.
 
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