Trump v. Clinton matchup has Catholic leaders scrambling

[estesbob]

If your misinterpretation changes a permission to disqualify a candidate into a mandate to disqualify a candidate, then yes.

If you can find a member of the magisterium that agrees with your interpretation please post it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Not only have the Democrats doubled down on socialized med and persecuting the church but Hillary further shifted against the Church with abortion…

Once a proponent of making abortions “safe, legal and rare,” Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton has now dropped the “rare” from her rhetorical pitch as she seeks to rally the Planned Parenthood vote.

Ever more worried by a challenge from Sen. Bernard Sanders, Mrs. Clinton has placed women’s rights at the forefront of her candidacy, rallying with a heightened sense of absolutism: fighting against all restrictions on abortions, including during the ninth month of pregnancy.

She regularly rails against Republican efforts to strip taxpayer funding from Planned Parenthood and was rewarded this month when the group’s political arm endorsed her presidential bid — marking the first time the abortion provider has tipped its hand in the presidential primary in its 100-year history.

Just days after the endorsement, Mrs. Clinton called for the repeal of the Hyde Amendment, which prohibits direct federal taxpayer funding for abortions.

Mr. Sanders, speaking to MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow, waved off the endorsement as another sign of “the political establishment” rallying to Mrs. Clinton. That drew outraged responses from Mrs. Clinton’s defenders, including her husband, former President Bill Clinton, who said it was demeaning to Planned Parenthood.

But analysts said Mr. Sanders had a point.

And all that plus more as it goes on and on with marriage and the very teachings on socialism and liberalism, that in contrast to what fantastical imaginative issues next? Its impossible to rectify that but by speculation which exists regardless of what candidate is on the GOP ticket. The issue isn’t Trump nor never was, the issue is a liberal socialist agenda which is harder and harder to rationalize by the year, and today no more can be in success argued as we see, its an agenda not conducive to the Church teaching as I read.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

If you can find a member of the magisterium that agrees with your interpretation please post it.

I did. Right here.

 

[chero23]

Not only have the Democrats doubled down on socialized med and persecuting the church but Hillary further shifted against the Church with abortion…

And all that plus more as it goes on and on with marriage and the very teachings on socialism and liberalism, that in contrast to what fantastical imaginative issues next? Its impossible to rectify that but by speculation which exists regardless of what candidate is on the GOP ticket. The issue isn’t Trump nor never was, the issue is a liberal socialist agenda which is harder and harder to rationalize by the year, and today no more can be in success argued as we see, its an agenda not conducive to the Church teaching as I read.

So has Trump. He stated that vaccines causes autism.

What are you going to say a scientific study does state that?

So when is Science acceptable and when isn’t it acceptable?

Bc people state science is wrong about evolution, how the Earth was made, about the existence of God, etc. etc. etc.

If you state that Trump has scientists backing him, on the other side of the argument you have right and left leaning scientists that state that vaccinations do not cause autism.

 

[GaryTaylor]

No idea what your point is, sounds like gibberish, no link, no articulated point, no idea what your talking about.

 

[chero23]

No idea what your point is, sounds like gibberish, no link, no articulated point, no idea what your talking about.

slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/09/16/donald_trump_suggested_vaccines_cause_autism_during_the_cnn_gop_debate_he.html

washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/09/17/the-origins-of-donald-trumps-autismvaccine-theory-and-how-it-was-completely-debunked-eons-ago/

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/253980-trump-links-vaccines-to-autism-epidemic

I rest my case on the vaccinations. There’s a lot more on that, if you would like to read about it.

Also about the whole Science and religion part, you know I’m right. If you post a “Right wing” scientist stating, “Well vaccinations do cause autism”, then you will go against the Health community that for decades has told us to vaccinate the little ones against many sicknesses.

You will go against priests, who tell us to do the best for our children, to get them vaccinated, and taken care of.

 

[estesbob]

I did. Right here.

I didn’t see where he said one could vote for a pro,-abortion candidate if a pro- life alternative is available?

 

[Ridgerunner]

So has Trump. He stated that vaccines causes autism.

What are you going to say a scientific study does state that?

So when is Science acceptable and when isn’t it acceptable?

Bc people state science is wrong about evolution, how the Earth was made, about the existence of God, etc. etc. etc.

If you state that Trump has scientists backing him, on the other side of the argument you have right and left leaning scientists that state that vaccinations do not cause autism.

What Trump really said was that he felt the prevailing schedule of vaccinations is excessive and that he had his children vaccinated more slowly than the usual practice. His comment about autism was made eight years ago when there was considerable concern about it, understanding that nobody has a handle on the cause(s) of autism.

But his main issue was with giving a child a lot of vaccines within a short time. I’m not sure that’s an irrational statement at all. Some medical people share the belief that the usual course imposes an excessive burden on the child’s system, or can. If you look at the charts of recommended vaccination time, at about 12-15 months, a child could get as many as 12 vaccines within a fairly narrow window of time. Some of those are combinations themselves like DPT and MMR, each being a combination of three.

My own son developed neurological inflammation from childhood vaccines, and the doctor readily said the vaccines were what did it.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I didn’t see where he said one could vote for a pro,-abortion candidate if a pro- life alternative is available?

How else would you interpret:

it must elevate the issue of poverty to the very top of its political agenda, establishing poverty alongside abortion as the pre-eminent moral issues the Catholic community pursues at this moment in our nation’s history.

 

[chero23]

What Trump really said was that he felt the prevailing schedule of vaccinations is excessive and that he had his children vaccinated more slowly than the usual practice. His comment about autism was made eight years ago when there was considerable concern about it, understanding that nobody has a handle on the cause(s) of autism.

But his main issue was with giving a child a lot of vaccines within a short time. I’m not sure that’s an irrational statement at all. Some medical people share the belief that the usual course imposes an excessive burden on the child’s system, or can. If you look at the charts of recommended vaccination time, at about 12-15 months, a child could get as many as 12 vaccines within a fairly narrow window of time. Some of those are combinations themselves like DPT and MMR, each being a combination of three.

My own son developed neurological inflammation from childhood vaccines, and the doctor readily said the vaccines were what did it.

He sais that in a debate last year. He was still saying the same thing. He didn’t change, and that was just one man’s opinion with no medical knowledge.

 

[estesbob]

How else would you interpret:

it must elevate the issue of poverty to the very top of its political agenda, establishing poverty alongside abortion as the pre-eminent moral issues the Catholic community pursues at this moment in our nation’s history.

What you did was find a rather general observation stating the obvious- that abortion and poverty are both serious problems that Catholics need to address He didn’t even mention voting more or less assert that a candidates stance on the amount of funding of any poverty program can in any way mitigate his support of unrestricted taxpayer funded abortion on demand

 

[chero23]

How else would you interpret:

it must elevate the issue of poverty to the very top of its political agenda, establishing poverty alongside abortion as the pre-eminent moral issues the Catholic community pursues at this moment in our nation’s history.

I would like to add to this, that abortion is horrible. But, trump has not made a standing statement in what his position is.

We are making voting decisions based on the 10 commandments, what the Church teaches. Trump is a businessman, who is a very selfish and greedy man.

That goes against Church teaching and the 10 commandments. If you break one commandment it doesn’t make it right for the next person to break another one. Remember there’s a thread out here, about how Trump won while the housing market crashed. People here said, “well, he’s a businessman”. Yes he is, and a greedy one.

CCC 1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm

God loves us deeply and only He can satisfy our desire for love. Because He loves us so, we are duty bound to love Him above all else, and He commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Love of God and neighbor requires that we live a chaste life. Chastity is the spiritual power or virtue, which frees love from selfishness. Living chastely helps us to have inner peace. Chastity enables us to think purely and act purely. Living chastely enables us to respect others and ourselves. It helps us to be holy. In family life, chastity builds an atmosphere of respect, virtue, sacrifice, and love.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I didn’t see where he said one could vote for a pro,-abortion candidate if a pro- life alternative is available?

He didn’t of course. But he did say this:

“Finally, there are acts of intrinsic evil so grave and so contrary to the role of law in society that opposition to them is absolutely central to the Catholic mission of seeking the common good. Abortion and euthanasia are such issues because they involve the most fundamental duty of government to prevent the taking of innocent human life.”

I take “Absolutely central” as meaning “absolutely central”. So, he’s saying opposition to abortion is “absolutely central” to the Catholic mission in society, it’s preposterous to suggest that he really meant “opposition to abortion is optional for Catholics”.

But some who support Hillary Clinton will, and do, represent it that way. Some other just say “I’m for Hillary because she supports a woman’s right to choose”, and don’t care what Catholic teachings are on the subject.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

His comment about autism was made eight years ago when there was considerable concern about it, understanding that nobody has a handle on the cause(s) of autism.

Wakefield’s claims were discredited long before eight years ago. The only reason more studies continue to be done is because so many people were mislead that overwhelming evidence to the contrary was needed to fix the mess Wakefield started. That Trump bought into Wakefield’s discredited theory says a lot about his competence to make important decisions based on science.

And as Mary Gail 36 pointed out a few posts down from here, Trump continues to act irresponsibly on this issue.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I would like to add to this, that abortion is horrible. But, trump has not made a standing statement in what his position is.

We are making voting decisions based on the 10 commandments, what the Church teaches. Trump is a businessman, who is a very selfish and greedy man.

That goes against Church teaching and the 10 commandments. If you break one commandment it doesn’t make it right for the next person to break another one. Remember there’s a thread out here, about how Trump won while the housing market crashed. People here said, “well, he’s a businessman”. Yes he is, and a greedy one.

CCC 1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: “Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God.”

scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm

God loves us deeply and only He can satisfy our desire for love. Because He loves us so, we are duty bound to love Him above all else, and He commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Love of God and neighbor requires that we live a chaste life. Chastity is the spiritual power or virtue, which frees love from selfishness. Living chastely helps us to have inner peace. Chastity enables us to think purely and act purely. Living chastely enables us to respect others and ourselves. It helps us to be holy. In family life, chastity builds an atmosphere of respect, virtue, sacrifice, and love.

Trump has said what kinds of Supreme court justices he will appoint. If he does that, he will have accomplished more for the prolife cause than even G.W. Bush did, by far, since Trump could create a prolife majority. Hillary Clinton, as we know, will create a pro-abortion majority, including justices who would support partial birth abortion as she does.

Declaring Trump “greedy” is simply rash judgment. You know nothing about the man’s soul. Nothing.

Trump wasn’t in the single family dwelling market. He was in commercial real estate. Was he wrong in predicting that the real estate bubble would pop? No he wasn’t. More people should have listened to him.

And equating, say, lust, with killing a million children is not only vapid, it’s extremely non-Catholic.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

What Trump really said was that he felt the prevailing schedule of vaccinations is excessive and that he had his children vaccinated more slowly than the usual practice. His comment about autism was made eight years ago when there was considerable concern about it, understanding that nobody has a handle on the cause(s) of autism.

But his main issue was with giving a child a lot of vaccines within a short time. I’m not sure that’s an irrational statement at all. Some medical people share the belief that the usual course imposes an excessive burden on the child’s system, or can. If you look at the charts of recommended vaccination time, at about 12-15 months, a child could get as many as 12 vaccines within a fairly narrow window of time. Some of those are combinations themselves like DPT and MMR, each being a combination of three.

My own son developed neurological inflammation from childhood vaccines, and the doctor readily said the vaccines were what did it.

Regarding autism, Trump discussed it at the debates mid September in 2015. He referred to a baby who was vaccinated, fell ill with a fever, and a few weeks later was autistic.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

He didn’t of course. But he did say this:

“Finally, there are acts of intrinsic evil so grave and so contrary to the role of law in society that opposition to them is absolutely central to the Catholic mission of seeking the common good. Abortion and euthanasia are such issues because they involve the most fundamental duty of government to prevent the taking of innocent human life.”

I take “Absolutely central” as meaning “absolutely central”. So, he’s saying opposition to abortion is “absolutely central” to the Catholic mission in society, it’s preposterous to suggest that he really meant “opposition to abortion is optional for Catholics”.

Strawman argument. No one is claiming that opposition to abortion is optional. The claim is that opposition abortion ranks alongside opposition to poverty caused by injustice. As McElroy says:
Voting for candidates is a complex moral action in which the voter must confront an entire array of competing candidates’ positions in a single act of voting.

 

[JW55]

slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2015/09/16/donald_trump_suggested_vaccines_cause_autism_during_the_cnn_gop_debate_he.html

washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2015/09/17/the-origins-of-donald-trumps-autismvaccine-theory-and-how-it-was-completely-debunked-eons-ago/

thehill.com/policy/healthcare/253980-trump-links-vaccines-to-autism-epidemic

I rest my case on the vaccinations. There’s a lot more on that, if you would like to read about it.

Also about the whole Science and religion part, you know I’m right. If you post a “Right wing” scientist stating, “Well vaccinations do cause autism”, then you will go against the Health community that for decades has told us to vaccinate the little ones against many sicknesses.

You will go against priests, who tell us to do the best for our children, to get them vaccinated, and taken care of.

There are always risk with any vaccination or medical procedure. In regard to vaccines in particular, as a parent one needs to weigh the individual risk factors for their child and themselves if they are a recipient. Fortunately most side effects are minor but there is always reason to be cautious in the health and particular condition of each individual. On occasion some serious side effects do occur. cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm

 

[Ridgerunner]

Wakefield’s claims were discredited long before eight years ago. The only reason more studies continue to be done is because so many people were mislead that overwhelming evidence to the contrary was needed to fix the mess Wakefield started. That Trump bought into Wakefield’s discredited theory says a lot about his competence to make important decisions based on science.

If you asked Dr. Carson about vaccines and autism, he would tell you what the medical community thinks about it. Nobody, of course, digs up what Hillary Clinton thought about any of that, or when, or whether she thought about it at all.

And the reason more studies are being done is because nobody knows what causes autism, whether it’s a single cause or whether it’s even a single disorder.

There were two associations of vaccines with autism. One had to do with a preservative. The other had to do with the fact that Rubella does have a strong association with autism. But does the MMR vaccine have it too? Well, there is an increased incidence of autism at about the same time MMR vaccinations are given. At one time, that was suspected as a cause/effect relationship. Later studies have indicated that it’s only an association.

But Trump hasn’t killed anybody with his beliefs about vaccines, if he still holds them.

Hillary Clinton’s stupidity about Libya did cause people to die and turned a country over to terrorists. Even Obama now admits that Hillary’s war on Libya was “a mistake” (i.e. “stupid”)

And I don’t think Trump ever opined that Mahatma Ghandi was a service station operator in St. Louis like Hillary Clinton did.

 

[Ridgerunner]

No one is claiming that opposition to abortion is optional. The claim is that opposition abortion ranks alongside opposition to poverty caused by injustice. As McElroy says:
Voting for candidates is a complex moral action in which the voter must confront an entire array of competing candidates’ positions in a single act of voting.

Glad you agree that opposition to abortion is not optional for Catholics. It is mandatory.

But Bp McElroy doesn’t support the proposition that all poverty of every kind is equivalent to deliberate killing in abortion.

You have not yet demonstrated that Bp. McElroy has a different view of Catholic teaching than does Cdl Burke, the USCCB bishops, Bp. Chaput or any other Church leader.