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TMC
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I don’t know how that could be confusing. Every jurist that interprets the constitution believes he or she is doing so properly, and all American jurist are in that sense constitutionalists. The supposed “originalists” like Scalia do not find any rights for the unborn in the Constitution.
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seekerz
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Therein lies the rub. It’s come to the point where a candidate can openly espouse ANY despicable or extremist view, and he can know he will get millions of votes if he opposes abortion (genuinely or not is not so much the question, IMO).
Really? To what purpose then, my Catholic education?
Given such a choice, I’d rather not vote - that’s what the confessional is for.
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TMC
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Fair enough. The confusion is caused by my trying to use a term that doesn’t really mean anything. My point is that I don’t think there is any such thing as a “constitutionalist” - I don’t think that is a real defined position. That said, conservative jurists like Scalia (who is sometimes called a constitutionalist), do not believe that the unborn have any constitutional rights.
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Little_Sheep
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Great post! Rhetoric by its very nature is always hyperbolic and, as I am sure you know, there’s more than enough rhetoric to go around on the subject of abortion.
I think a majority of voters in the Republican Party are sick to death that ideological “purity” concerning social issues (primarily same-sex marriage and abortion) has allowed a minority of Republican voters to define the party as a whole. Trump’s rise to power is proof of this. Trump supporters don’t care that he doesn’t toe the party line on those issues. He’s happy for Kaitlyn Jenner to use the bathroom wherever she feels like it and happy to support same-sax marriage and happy to talk about the amazing work Planned Parenthood does in the world.
Even his abortion “conversion” is based on a the fact that a grown person who someone once wanted aborted turned out to be a great wonderful human being…would he have changed his mind to “pro-life” if that child had grown up to be a disaster? His abortion flip-flops also show that he has given no real thought to the question. There is no purity, either ideological or logical, in any of his thoughts on these subjects.
But hey - that’s just fine by his Christian supporters, the ones who are happy to call Romney and McCain and Rubio RINOs. An establishment Republican must NOT go off the reservation, but Trump can do or say whatever outlandish thing pops into his head.
I feel badly that some Christians, due to their beliefs on certain social issues, feel like all they are offered politically is the Republican Party. I’ve never seen Republicans in power on the federal level do anything but give lip service to the Christian Right and the social beliefs they espouse.
Clearly, the Republican Party has been forever changed by the rise of Trump. I genuinely wonder if another Party will rise from the fracture - perhaps a Party whose leaders really would try to change laws about marriage equality and choice. I guess only time will tell.
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Crossbones
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When your personal interpretation of Church teachings is that abortion is the only issue that matters, it is unsurprising that you gravitate to the only major party candidate that aligns with you even though the conversion is late, his thoughts on the issue are poorly formed and he lies about really little things, so who know how reliable he will be.
Personally, I think the influence of social conservatives on the Republican party is clearly waning. If Trump wins the Presidency, they are minor players because he wasn’t their preferred nominee, but he will dominate the party for at least 5 years. If he loses, Clinton shifts the Supreme Court left for the next decade at least, taking away a major reason for social conservatives to support Republicans.
I also think that, whether anyone realizes it or not, that the Trump and Sanders supporters have a great deal in common and an astute politician can form a very strong coalition between the two groups. That said, right now, there is no astute politician to do that.
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GaryTaylor
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Perhaps it needed to be changed admittedly? But the christians I would be more concerned about under Hillary like with Obama, little sisters of the poor and all. Social issue of human rights, Church priority like abortion the priority of this culture of confusion apparently where women are killing off their own kind which even in the survival of the fit makes no sense, let alone christianity, formed conscience you know.
Frankly imho Hillary doesn’t make the general election due to legal issues. In fact smart money would bet the Democrats are working on plan B since obviously socialism and Bernie is out.
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Little_Sheep
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I agree with you, Crossbones - especially with the part I underlined. Also, with the fact that Sanders and Trump supporters are cut from similar cloth.
For me, the real bill of goods that social conservatives have tried to push in the last couple of decades that a true Christian can only vote for XYZ party has been terrible for Christianity. It’s an incoherent message and, while it found some purchase for a while, I am delighted to see it slither back into the shadows.
This faithless message has damaged the body of Christ, imho, and it can’t be forgotten soon enough. That’s the only real joy I get in the rise of Trump - I believe said rise proves that message to carry no more real power. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
A true Christian (or Jew or Muslim,etc…) can, in good faith, reach any number of political conclusions.
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GaryTaylor
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Depends upon the social teaching of human rights in priority of the Church. So instead of being vague what is XYZ specifically? Because right abortion 1-million is the A-priority
So tell us how a TRUE christian logically discerns this. Is a Catholic a “true” christisn?Yes Clinton and Sanders are anti Christian clearly by platform as indicated . We all have to agree?
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GaryTaylor
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In fact I would and do contend a true Christian has to by evidence vote OTHER than the democratic platform. Did you want to compare the two Rep and Dem for relevance?
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pnewton
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Plan B? If Hillary is really indicted, could the B stand for Biden? He has kept an awfully low profile.
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SuperLuigi
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There’s a reason why they are called non-negotiables. If Christians wouldn’t make excuses, the politicians would have no choice but to adhere to decent values.
Fact is too many people are concerned with outwardly looking good and getting a check in the mail.
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SuperLuigi
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Basically, that’s moral relativism.
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SuperLuigi
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Not yet it hasn’t.
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pnewton
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From the Catholic Encyclopedia:
“Any doctrine which denies, universally or in regard to some restricted sphere of being, the existence of absolute values, may be termed Relativism.”
newadvent.org/cathen/12731d.htm
Relativism is the denial of the existence of universal values (universal moral values in moral relativism). Donald Trump (to use the current example) is not a “value”, much less a universal value.
When one says there can be multiple political conclusions there is simply no reason to assume the same person believes in any form of relativism.
A true Christian, with absolute values and complete orthodoxy can arrive at more than on political conclusion. This is why voting Republican is not a Catholic doctrine, much less voting Trump.
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Little_Sheep
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LOL! I’m quite sure you’ll forgive me mine if I forgive you yours!
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Little_Sheep
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Keep praying! I’m ALL in.
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Sy_Noe
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Oh please LS, don’t place me anywhere near the cloth of the Trump supporters.
I supported Bernie because of things like single payer healthcare and his focus on the morality of social and economic justice and the growing income disparity between rich and poor and middle class. And I will be standing with Hillary supporters such as yourself in the general election. 
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GaryTaylor
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Hillary? This doesn’t even require a counter point. Her husband is in Times list at #13 of the top 25 people responsible for the economic failure, of which this past week Hillary stated Bubba would again be in charge of this top priority area of americans.
In fact it was the democrats and Hillarie’s biggest speaking disaster this week. Odd you would even bring this sore spot up in light of this and the disaster of NAFTA and manufacturing in the country and the Hillary squirming as a result the past two weeks.
And what morality exactly since we are just throwing words around as if socialism and the anti christian platform of the democrats is of some overall multi issue value for christians. Obviously a failure of a point.
I can’t see a good reason amid the Christian persecution by this party why anyone would vote for them from a christian mindset.
What have they done for chistians of late? Oh right nothing as christians are not their constituents. The persecute religious liberty, devalue human rights and the very ideal of traditional marriage. Not very moral from a christian perspective. They are more concerned with the morality of transgenders and using the little girls restrooms which in fact they have no definition for[transgender].
This is a non christian platform with nonsensical and clearly not well thought out long term goals. Just look anywhere. Look at the last 50 years of flip flopping. They have no clue where they are going or what they are doing. Arab Spring-democracy? Isis? Iran? Russia? Libya and Benghazi? And the morality of Hillary and national security.
Sorry from a christian perspective Hillary is clearly a failure as is the democratic party and the move further and further away to appease others as christians are NOT their constituents, in fact from a secular perspective she is also a verified failure. I understand the theory and idea of placing secular values ahead of christian as thats the only way to rationalize Hillary but even thats a failure.
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