Trump v. Clinton matchup has Catholic leaders scrambling

[GaryTaylor]

Doesn’t matter what Trump states he’s not speaking for the Church. Trump further hasn’t done a thing but talk. This is in play…

No. The problem is disagreement with the premises. I, for one, do not agree that waterboarding is an “intrinsic evil”, nor do I agree that it’s “torture”. Certainly, the Church doesn’t say either thing.

Republicans who voted for Trump, voted for a greater evil in regards to abortion

Clinton 1-million a year abortion on demand, Trump-0

who have abortions would face criminal prosecution,

Oklahoma passed a bill to make performing abortions a felony and that passed the Oklahoma Legislature, point being its part of the on-going conversation to be further clarified June 21st.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Doesn’t matter what Trump states he’s not speaking for the Church. Trump further hasn’t done a thing but talk. This is in play…

Clinton 1-million a year abortion on demand, Trump-0

Oklahoma passed a bill to make performing abortions a felony and that passed the Oklahoma Legislature, point being its part of the on-going conversation to be further clarified June 21st.

Trump has given financial support to many pro-choice politicians, including $64, 000 to Andrew Cuomo.

How much did he give to New York Right to life?

 

[gracepoole]

Clinton 1-million a year abortion on demand, Trump-0

So the body count is the method used to determine which intrinsic evil is worse? Too bad the Church doesn’t say this. Diehard GOP voters are used to paying attention to one issue and feeling morally secure in doing so. Now they’re faced with the prospect of supporting a candidate whose pro-life rhetoric is beyond questionable and who also supports at least one other intrinsic evil. Denying this is denying reality. Neither party is fully aligned with Catholic teachings. We are, to quote Henry Jones, Sr., “pilgrims in an unholy land.”

 

[GaryTaylor]

Trump has given financial support to many pro-choice politicians, including $64, 000 to Andrew Cuomo.

How much did he give to New York Right to life?

Ancient history, Hillary has always been scandalous, but today.

Hillary-1 million, Trump-0 there is no rational comparison. Its speculation of opinion of what he will do based on by large hyperbole.

 

[estesbob]

I understand that there are also single issue voters for whom literally nothing matters except abortion. In practice, those voters often look a lot like the hyper partisan GOPers that I described earlier. Also, to be clear, there are also hyper partisan Dems, it is not a GOP-only trait.

Is there any issue a Candidate can support that would keep you from voting for them regardless of their positions on other issues? Do you consider guesTbook Church to be “hyper partisan”

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Ancient history, Hillary have always been scandalous, but today.

Hillary-1 million, Trump-0 there is no rational comparison. Its speculation of opinion of what he will do based on by large hyperbole.

2010 is ancient history? He supported Andrew Cuomo’s NY campaign for governor.

 

[Thorolfr]

Hillary-1 million, Trump-0 there is no rational comparison. Its speculation of opinion of what he will do based on by large hyperbole.

Saying that Hillary is responsible for 1 million abortions is the hyperbole

 

[estesbob]

The problem with Trump is he says something “off the cuff”, then someone tells him why that is not politically correct for the Republican base.

What happens if he changes his advisors? Currently he is being kept somewhat in line, but I think that is because he wants to be President, not necessarily because he agrees with the more moderated positions. Do people really believe he will be controllable by the Republican Party once he becomes President?

It’s not what Hilary says off the cuff that scares me Its her adamant and direct opposition to core moral teachings of Our Church , including her demand we change our religious views to be I line with her politics ,that scare me.

 

[GaryTaylor]

2010 is ancient history?

Its not indicative of his position today. And that is up for further definition in June. But we “know” another million next year with Hillary and continued attacks promised on socialized meds and religious liberty. We almost reached slavery with Hillary, its just around the corner

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Its not indicative of his position today. And that is up for further definition in June. But we “know” another million next year with Hillary and continued attacks promised on socialized meds and religious liberty. We almost reached slavery with Hillary, its just around the corner

I don’t support Hillary. She won’t be getting my vote.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Saying that Hillary is responsible for 1 million abortions is the hyperbole

Do the math, its actually being generous and understating her murderous agenda. Its 53 million since legalized. Whats that average a year???

 

[GaryTaylor]

I don’t support Hillary. She won’t be getting my vote.

I know!

 

[Thorolfr]

Do the math, its actually being generous and understating her murderous agenda. Its 53 million since legalized. Whats that average a year???

And how is she personally responsible or is everyone who is pro-choice responsible for millions of abortions?

 

[GaryTaylor]

And how is she personally responsible or is everyone who is pro-choice responsible for millions of abortions?

Accomplice which you’ll find on New Advent or conspiracy by legal terms or for a philosophical Dr King.

He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it. Martin Luther King, Jr.

“In a real sense all life is inter-related. All men are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly. I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be, and you can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be…
This is the inter-related structure of reality.” Martin Luther King, Jr.

newadvent.org/cathen/01100a.htm

 

[Thorolfr]

Accomplice which you’ll find on New Advent or conspiracy by legal terms or for a philosophical Dr King.

newadvent.org/cathen/01100a.htm

Based on your definition, even you are an accomplice to every act of evil that happens in the world that you become aware of and have not protested in some way.

 

[TMC]

Is there any issue a Candidate can support that would keep you from voting for them regardless of their positions on other issues? Do you consider guesTbook Church to be “hyper partisan”

There may be, but I do look at all issues and all candidates. That has lead me to vote GOP more often than Dem, but I have voted for both over the years. One also has to consider, in my view, what you believe a candidate will actually do, and what a candidate can actually accomplish. Simply parroting a talking point is not enough to convince me one way or the other.

I am not sure what your last sentence means. If you are asking if the Church is hyper-partisan, some members of the Church are, including some Church leaders. Some are not.

 

[estesbob]

There may be, but I do look at all issues and all candidates. That has lead me to vote GOP more often than Dem, but I have voted for both over the years. One also has to consider, in my view, what you believe a candidate will actually do, and what a candidate can actually accomplish. Simply parroting a talking point is not enough to convince me one way or the other.

I am not sure what your last sentence means. If you are asking if the Church is hyper-partisan, some members of the Church are, including some Church leaders. Some are not.

So you too could be “single issue” voter. Does that make you hyper partisan ? And since the Chuch says life issues are paramount to our vote does that make the Church hyper partisan?

 

[GaryTaylor]

Based on your definition, even you are an accomplice to every act of evil that happens in the world that you become aware of and have not protested in some way.

I don’t cooperate accept or promote evil as Hillary and her minions. There’s also a difference in living here and actually voting for her. But strictly speaking there is Explicit Cooperation, Implicit Cooperation and Disruptive Cooperation or “the enemy of my enemy is my friend." similar to an insurgent.

 

[TMC]

So you too could be “single issue” voter. Does that make you hyper partisan ? And since the Chuch says life issues are paramount to our vote does that make the Church hyper partisan?

If a candidate supported starting a nuclear war, and I believed he/she could and would do so, that would make me a single issue voter, yes.

The Church as an institution is not hyper partisan - it is not partisan at all. The Church takes strong positions on many life issues, not just abortion, and equally strong positions on many other issues. I believe in looking at all of those issues and making a judgment. If a particular Catholic voter decides that he or she is only going to look at a single issue, that is their choice. That is not, however, what the Church teaches.

The issue I have, as you likely know after years of these discussions, is that Catholics should not be told that the Church mandates that they vote for or against a particular candidate or party, because it does not. Catholics are certainly free to express why they think a particular candidate or party is better. But it is not correct to say that the Church teaches that a Catholic must vote for or against either major party candidate.

 

[Crossbones]

Not true.

What he really said was this:

But pressed to explain himself in a later interview with O’Reilly, Trump suggested the U.S. should “wipe out their homes” and “where they came from.”

“You absolutely have to wipe them out,” Trump said.

But asked explicitly whether that meant killing suspected terrorists’ families, Trump demurred.

“I don’t want to be so bold,” Trump said. “I’ll tell you they would suffer.”

Which, of course, they would. As Sherman is reputed to have said “…war is hell”. I realize Clinton supporters like to claim Trump favors directly targeting noncombatants families, but they always have to twist and dance some to make it seem so.

Of course, Clinton has participated in the killing of suspected terrorists, their families and neighbors without even knowing the bad guys were at home. But never mind that.

So, your conclusion from this is he’s going to target noncombatants and make them suffer but he stops short of saying he’ll kill them and you think that’s ok. Later he says, “There has to be retribution and if there’s not going to be retribution, you aren’t going to stop terrorism”. Again, I guess that’s ok.

I’m sorry, His words are plain and there for anyone to see. The verbal gymnastics taking place on this forum to excuse the comments of Trump are worthy of an Olympic event.