Trump v GOP

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When it comes to “pro-life”; some people even gave Romney the rap on the issue.

The governors all who ran for the president have their pro-life accomplishments and only Kasich is left.

Sure, Rubio and Cruz are very pro-life but possibly with limited accomplishments but those accomplishments exist nonetheless. I think Cruz defended some Texas bill in front of the Supreme Court, Rubio did sponsor a pro-life bill in Florida which was signed by the governor. One of those bills concerning minors and having to get parental consent or similar.

Sometimes, we need to give the unborn a chance, even if we are skeptical ourselves of a candidate.
 
It’s precisely because people are frightened and Trump plays to these fears masterfully. He offers exceptionally little in policy specifics and instead relies on jingoism and (again) xenophobia to stir emotion, not logic.
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And I see, these kinds of statements seem to rely on accusing other people of prejudice rather than dealing with real concerns.

When are people accused of bigotry? When a good argument can not be made against them. Nothing better to marginalize others with.
 
Path_Finder said:
When it comes to “pro-life”; some people even gave Romney the rap on the issue.

The governors all who ran for the president have their pro-life accomplishments and only Kasich is left.

Sure, Rubio and Cruz are very pro-life but possibly with limited accomplishments but those accomplishments exist nonetheless. I think Cruz defended some Texas bill in front of the Supreme Court, Rubio did sponsor a pro-life bill in Florida which was signed by the governor. One of those bills concerning minors and having to get parental consent or similar.

Sometimes, we need to give the unborn a chance, even if we are skeptical ourselves of a candidate.
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I have no idea how any faithful Catholic avoids the topic of abortion. How can we presume to think we are a great people, or a great nation, if we allow the slaughter to continue? It should be at the top of every Catholic’s list, imo. But increasingly, the issue of abortion is marginalized across the spectrum, including even with faithful Catholics.
 
Path_Finder said:
And I see, these kinds of statements seem to rely on accusing other people of prejudice rather than dealing with real concerns.

When are people accused of bigotry? When a good argument can not be made against them. Nothing better to marginalize others with.
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👍 exactly.
 
Path_Finder said:
And I see, these kinds of statements seem to rely on accusing other people of prejudice rather than dealing with real concerns.

When are people accused of bigotry? When a good argument can not be made against them. Nothing better to marginalize others with.
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Someone who espouses a “pro-life” view that includes praise for PP’s “wonderful work” is in fact already marginalized since that’s an atypical view for anyone who professes to be pro-life.
 
irishpatrick said:
People like to take the stance that Romney lost it himself. It was we the people, the very ones that are so angry this time, that caused Romney’s lost. He was a good candidate and a hundred levels better than Obama, but Republicans did not vote in enough numbers for him.

People like to blame Romney for what was THEIR failure–we the people let ourselves down by not electing Romney.
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I was so impressed by Romney coming out and giving that speech. He knew there was a huge potential for backlash, right, he is the ultimate ‘loser’ establishment candidate. He did it out of patriotism, a sense of civic duty, what is right. And it was a fantastic, honest and accurate plea - to the conservative movement to rethink where it was going, to stop and choose a better way.

I don’t think it will succeed, but Romney has grown in my estimation. I think history will be kind to him. He showed leadership and vision, commitment to conservative principles. He redeemed himself out of the whole 47%, losing the election baggage - IMHO.
 
Thorolfr said:
Can you give me examples of how Obama has “led from behind”? And what “bad deals” are you talking about? What kind of action would you have wanted him to take? Just curious?
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Obama’s bad deals: Iran deal, Sergeant Bergdaul, Obamacare

He celebrated the gay marriage ruling by draping the white house in rainbow lights.

He withdrew from Iraq and threw away the victories already won there.
 
gracepoole said:
It’s precisely because people are frightened and Trump plays to these fears masterfully. He offers exceptionally little in policy specifics and instead relies on jingoism and (again) xenophobia to stir emotion, not logic.

The government isn’t simply a business. Its goals are not and should not be the same.
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Enforcing our ‘rule of law’ and properly screening immigrants is logical, the xenophobia is only imagined in the minds of his detractors.

I agree that politicians do speak to stir emotions, but why do you avoid investigating his actual positions?

His policy objectives are very clear in their direction. Here are the top of mind ones:
  • curtail illegal immigration
  • reduce trade deficit
  • strong military at lower cost
  • reform VA
  • replace ACA with bipartisan solution
  • reform tax system
  • reduce waste and abuse in Govt
 
gracepoole said:
It’s precisely because people are frightened and Trump plays to these fears masterfully. He offers exceptionally little in policy specifics and instead relies on jingoism and (again) xenophobia to stir emotion, not logic.

The government isn’t simply a business. Its goals are not and should not be the same.
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Again, this is your interpretation. We don’t believe trump is supporting xenophobia. We see a lot of logic in what he says.
 
randomuser said:
Someone who espouses a “pro-life” view that includes praise for PP’s “wonderful work” is in fact already marginalized since that’s an atypical view for anyone who professes to be pro-life.
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The debate is about hurling the xenophobia label at people, not talking about planned parenthood or abortion in this case.

This planned parenthood issue is different and it would be interesting to see if the two sides can be reconciled.
 
irishpatrick said:
I have no idea how any faithful Catholic avoids the topic of abortion. How can we presume to think we are a great people, or a great nation, if we allow the slaughter to continue? It should be at the top of every Catholic’s list, imo. But increasingly, the issue of abortion is marginalized across the spectrum, including even with faithful Catholics.
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The issue of abortion is interrelated with many other social issues. It doesn’t stand by itself. The breakdown of family is center of all these problems. I don’t think abortion can be eradicated without addressing other issues as well.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I was so impressed by Romney coming out and giving that speech. He knew there was a huge potential for backlash, right, he is the ultimate ‘loser’ establishment candidate. He did it out of patriotism, a sense of civic duty, what is right. And it was a fantastic, honest and accurate plea - to the conservative movement to rethink where it was going, to stop and choose a better way.

I don’t think it will succeed, but Romney has grown in my estimation. I think history will be kind to him. He showed leadership and vision, commitment to conservative principles. He redeemed himself out of the whole 47%, losing the election baggage - IMHO.
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I agree and I wonder what people who refused to vote for him think today. Can any Catholic, Christian, or Conservative, doubt that we would be better off today had he been elected?
 
queenofheartscv said:
The issue of abortion is interrelated with many other social issues. It doesn’t stand by itself. The breakdown of family is center of all these problems. I don’t think abortion can be eradicated without addressing other issues as well.
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That may be true–but we all go merrily along our way while babies continue to get killed. They can’t be seen, so for many, it becomes a secondary issue. It reminds me of the Holocaust, in which the vast majority of people in the world did not see the evil and cruel slaughter of the Jews, so they did not act in time to save those lives.

We are supposed to be the light and the salt of the world (for Jesus). How much light or salt are we offering when we turn away from the horrors right under our noses.
 
Rush Limbaugh talked about how political correctness has shushed so many normal people in this country that they are now fed up. They are fed up with being labeled something they are not when they haven’t done anything other than have an opinion.

rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2016/03/04/trump_phenomenon_is_the_cork_popping_after_years_of_political_correctness

“Trump’s speaking in ways that men today still speak, when they’re not hounded by the modern eclipse of feminism and its supporters. Men speak this way to each other. They crack jokes this way to each other. It does not make them bad people. And I think there’s a yearning for it among a whole segment of the population, women, men, they want this kind of gruff, fearless, tell-it-like-it-is persona. They don’t think it’s destructive. They don’t think it says anything bad about the country. They don’t think it says anything bad about the people who speak it.”

“Well, there’s racism out there. Look at all this bigotry!” It’s nothing of the sort, and because that’s been attached to it, those allegations have made people mad. People who are not racist have been called racist. People who are not bigots have been called bigots. People who are not homophobes have been called homophobes. People who have deeply held religious beliefs have been attacked as the problem in this country when they were not.
 
irishpatrick said:
That may be true–but we all go merrily along our way while babies continue to get killed.
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We all have a job to do in our own life, in our own little corner. We also each have a personal cross to carry. For some it’s mundane; for others it’s mental illness, depression, a family member lost to suicide, a divorce, etc… There is lots of sadness in this world, and we are called to do what we can. Some are able to do more and others not as much. It’s not necessarily a wholesome thing to feel the burden of abortions is placed squarely on our own shoulders. We all have to account for what happens in our individual lives.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I was so impressed by Romney coming out and giving that speech. He knew there was a huge potential for backlash, right, he is the ultimate ‘loser’ establishment candidate. He did it out of patriotism, a sense of civic duty, what is right. And it was a fantastic, honest and accurate plea - to the conservative movement to rethink where it was going, to stop and choose a better way.

I don’t think it will succeed, but Romney has grown in my estimation. I think history will be kind to him. He showed leadership and vision, commitment to conservative principles. He redeemed himself out of the whole 47%, losing the election baggage - IMHO.
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Actually, I hope the 47% comment will come back into Republican discourse. Not that I want to grind Romney down, but because the incident illustrates that misstatements are not forgiven nearly as easily in the general election as they are in the primary season.
 
irishpatrick said:
I agree and I wonder what people who refused to vote for him think today. Can any Catholic, Christian, or Conservative, doubt that we would be better off today had he been elected?
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No. One thing I learned about voting for Obama - don’t just go by emotion, the fact that you like the guy, or that everyone around you likes the guy. I will never do that again. I told myself he would be to the right of Hillary; a Jack Kennedy kind of Democrat. If I had been responsible about examining and informing myself about who he was and what he wanted to do I would not have fallen for the hype. There were red flags everywhere.
 
queenofheartscv said:
We all have a job to do in our own life, in our own little corner. We also each have a personal cross to carry. For some it’s mundane; for others it’s mental illness, depression, a family member lost to suicide, a divorce, etc… There is lots of sadness in this world, and we are called to do what we can. Some are able to do more and others not as much. It’s not necessarily a wholesome thing to feel the burden of abortions is placed squarely on our own shoulders. We all have to account for what happens in our individual lives.
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Of course, we must pick up our cross daily, and follow the Lord.

However, the Lord also admonished us to feed and clothe the poor, that was a mandate, not a suggestion. We will not be able to say to the Lord, “well, I took care of my own business” when we face Him in judgment. Therefore, I don’t think (regarding abortion) we’ll be able to us the, “I was taking care of my own business” defense when it comes to ignoring the plight of the unborn.

What exactly does being the salt and light mean if we are do not to be directly concerned about those who are ignorant of the Gospel, and those who are the most vulnerable among us (poor, needy, sick, and the unborn)?
 
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