Trump v GOP

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gracepoole said:
No, that’s not my point. You brought up the many buildings and golf courses bearing the Trump name. I simply pointed out that he often has nothing to do with many entities with his name on them. He licenses his name and this is one way in which he makes money – in fact, it’s a favorite of his. You may well call this an achievement – feel free to do so. I was simply including factually correct information.
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But I was responding to another poster who said he’s only good at building walls. To chime in like you did implied that trump doesn’t build great things and is only an empty name, which is not true.
 
randomuser said:
Facts matter. In message #1399 you state, and I quote, “Your point is moot as no-one “praised” PP.”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13725766&postcount=1399

As point of charity and correction, I provided facts in message #1402 to demonstrate that yes, in fact, he did praise PP:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=13725820&postcount=1402

To which that charity and correction was met with unfounded accusations that I am somehow questioning your faith. The fact is - since facts matter, and let’s leave emotion out of it - is that there is no precedent whatsoever for a “pro-life” leader to praise Planned Parenthood. I know the truth is difficult for Trump fans to hear, but you can’t be pro-life if you think Planned Parenthood is doing wonderful work.

Let’s see what factcheck.org has to say about PP’s wonderful work as it doesn’t relate to abortion:
*Abortions accounted for 3 percent of the nearly 10.6 million total services provided by Planned Parenthood clinics in 2013, according to its annual report.

Some services it provided in addition to abortions were:
Code: 
4.5 million tests and treatment for sexually transmitted infections
3.6 million contraception related services
935,573 cancer screenings including breast exams and Pap tests
1.1 million pregnancy tests and prenatal services
However, critics of the 3 percent figure note that an abortion isn’t equivalent to other individual services, such as giving out condoms or providing pregnancy tests.*
Source: factcheck.org/2015/09/planned-parenthoods-services/

Logic would dictate, therefore, that handing out contraceptives and testing for STI’s - which by definition are sexually transmitted infections - and related services must be “wonderful” since those are the other things that aren’t killing unborn babies. Of course, abstinence is the only guaranteed way not to get STI’s/STD’s.

All of the “wonderful” non-abortion-related things PP supposedly does can be handed by any primary care physician. Again…facts. Not emotion.
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And facts, not emotion because we have heard and likely rightfully a number of times, that no “pro-life” exponent has praised Planned Parenthood, what if part of this whole deal was then, that Planned Parenthood had nothing to do with abortion ever again if they received Federal Funds? That would be good in itself.

Though I think then, there would be a need to totally sever any relationship with abortion, meaning no abortifacients, no morning-after pill, no referrals, no nothing and that part would be hard to fully implement and some of those are then, going to be individual questions as Protestants and Catholics do not always see eye to eye on some things like contraceptives.
 
queenofheartscv said:
But I was responding to another poster who said he’s only good at building walls. To chime in like you did implied that trump doesn’t build great things and is only an empty name, which is not true.
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Please stop claiming that I “implied” this or that. You mentioned buildings and golf courses with his name on them as a criticism of another poster’s comment. I simply pointed out that your criticism isn’t consistently valid. Sometimes, his IS just an empty name. And at other times, it’s not.
 
randomuser said:
All of the “wonderful” non-abortion-related things PP supposedly does can be handed by any primary care physician. Again…facts. Not emotion.
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You have no point and continue to waste my time with your nonsense which you somehow THINK is a great logical argument but its fallacy. Its not, the fact is Trumps position completely aligns with Catholic teaching.
“Your point is moot as no-one “praised” PP.”
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Lets clarify this ,I am talking about abortion specifically as that is what is against Catholic teaching not PP. You have no point here. So lets move on. If I wasn’t clear you’ll simply have to accept my amended point as a Catholic. Now what do you want to discuss? But the fact is you know what Im talking about now so how dropping the slick non point and logical fallacy. So the fact of “praise PP” being mutually exclusive with Trumps take on rejecting abortion which is clear is simply a straw man. Thats a fact.
 
gracepoole said:
Please stop claiming that I “implied” this or that. You mentioned buildings and golf courses with his name on them as a criticism of another poster’s comment. I simply pointed out that your criticism isn’t consistently valid. Sometimes, his IS just an empty name. And at other times, it’s not.
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Is trump a builder of great buildings and golf courses? Yes or no? My answer is yes. What’s yours?
 
Path_Finder said:
And facts, not emotion because we have heard and likely rightfully a number of times, that no “pro-life” exponent has praised Planned Parenthood, what if part of this whole deal was then, that Planned Parenthood had nothing to do with abortion ever again if they received Federal Funds? That would be good in itself.
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Not if you look at the fine print. Again, facts here (not emotion):

Not all of the public funds Planned Parenthood receives are federal spending, however. While Title X is a federal program, Medicaid operates using federal and state funds. States receive a 90 percent federal reimbursement on Medicaid family planning spending, for example. So when Washington politicians talk about “defunding” Planned Parenthood, they generally mean cutting off federal money. States could continue to spend as they please. [emphasis added]
Source: npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/08/05/429641062/fact-check-how-does-planned-parenthood-spend-that-government-money

What’s to stop a “blue state” from deciding, “Well, we’re still going to give money to kill unborn babies”? Nothing, because that would be a “state’s rights” issue and the federal government would have no further say on that matter.

Facts still matter.
 
queenofheartscv said:
Is trump a builder of great buildings and golf courses? Yes or no? My answer is yes. What’s yours?
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I’ve answered this already. At times, yes. And at times, no.

Buy honestly, who cares? As I’ve said before on this thread, the government isn’t simply a business. It can’t be run as one.
 
I didn’t addrss the question to you and I don’t get the latter part of your post.

This is what’s really curious. People can’t even bring themselves to say trump is a good builder. When I merely said he’s a great builder, I had to be corrected and informed that he really didn’t build that much.

And yet politicians who have done nothing in real life are given all kinds of pass.

Trump has built many great buildings besides licensing his name. All of that is much more than what the piliticians can dream of achieving.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Thats not a point nor addressed the issue. Its an assumption he won’t do as he said and THAT will then be against the Church teaching. Your gonna have to come better than that. Lets put this crystal clear for you as a counter point, since 73, all those years all the republicans lied and so its not a point. Its another deflection from addressing the point which in fact is all thats been here for 96 pages. I guess no one has a point and I’ll call it bs. How that? 🤷
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Republicans are mostly liars, I’ll grant you that. I have never understood why so many conservative Catholics buy their empty promises year after year. But what reason do we have for believing Trump’s new found position on abortion now?

I doubt many of Trump’s supporters support him because they believe he is strongly pro-life. They should just admit that they are taking that issue of the table this cycle, because that is what is happening.
 
GaryTaylor said:
You have no point and continue to waste my time with your nonsense which you somehow THINK is a great logical argument but its fallacy. Its not, the fact is Trumps position completely aligns with Catholic teaching.

Lets clarify this ,I am talking about abortion specifically as that is what is against Catholic teaching not PP. You have no point here. So lets move on. If I wasn’t clear you’ll simply have to accept my amended point as a Catholic. Now what do you want you want to discuss? But the fact is you know what Im talking about now so how dropping the slick non point and logical fallacy.
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I’m sorry you consider it a waste of your time. However, if you expect me to take at face value a clearly and demonstrably false statement I will challenge the validity of the statement. What I THINK is irrelevant - facts matter, not emotion.

Catholic teaching forbids artificial birth control, one of the non-abortion services offered by Planned Parenthood. Are you now going to claim that Catholic teaching permits artificial birth control? You state - “Trumps position completely aligns with Catholic teaching” - which would only be a true statement if Catholic teaching permits the distribution of contraceptives.
 
randomuser said:
I’m sorry you consider it a waste of your time. However, if you expect me to take at face value a clearly and demonstrably false statement I will challenge the validity of the statement. What I THINK is irrelevant - facts matter, not emotion.

Catholic teaching forbids artificial birth control, one of the non-abortion services offered by Planned Parenthood. Are you now going to claim that Catholic teaching permits artificial birth control? You state - “Trumps position completely aligns with Catholic teaching” - which would only be a true statement if Catholic teaching permits the distribution of contraceptives.
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Apparently contraceptives can be used now because of Zika, according to Pope Francis.
 
randomuser said:
I’m sorry you consider it a waste of your time. However, if you expect me to take at face value a clearly and demonstrably false statement I will challenge the validity of the statement. What I THINK is irrelevant - facts matter, not emotion.

Catholic teaching forbids artificial birth control, one of the non-abortion services offered by Planned Parenthood. Are you now going to claim that Catholic teaching permits artificial birth control? You state - “Trumps position completely aligns with Catholic teaching” - which would only be a true statement if Catholic teaching permits the distribution of contraceptives.
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I see that; but now, if we could take abortion connections, facilities out of Planned Parenthood are we now demanding they can not dispense contraception?

Marco Rubio has even separated contraception from abortion, calling it a personal issue and Rick Santorum separated contraception from abortion. One is getting into a sticky area if one is now insisting Planned Parenthood follow Catholic theology to a t.

I brought up the abortifacient issue which seems problematic.

But at the least, let’s not fuse contraception and abortion together as the same service.
 
randomuser said:
I’m sorry you consider it a waste of your time. However, if you expect me to take at face value a clearly and demonstrably false statement I will challenge the validity of the statement. What I THINK is irrelevant - facts matter, not emotion.

Catholic teaching forbids artificial birth control, one of the non-abortion services offered by Planned Parenthood. Are you now going to claim that Catholic teaching permits artificial birth control? You state - “Trumps position completely aligns with Catholic teaching” - which would only be a true statement if Catholic teaching permits the distribution of contraceptives.
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But we are talking abortion specifically as you insisted. 🤷
 
** Ted Cruz on Birth Control: ‘We Don’t Have a Rubber Shortage in America’**
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=989845&highlight=cruz+rubber
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Just bringing up this thread from last year that is related.

And Rubio seemed to delineate his stance per abortion and contraception, if one pursues too perfect of a path, often one ends up with nothing at all.

At times, I think it’s an issue of who can actually be most pro-life in a real world sense instead of just per pure Catholic values.

Mr. Kasich has signed into law 16 or even 18 pro-life actions, this is a battle little by little.
 
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