A
Agathon
Guest
No. Am I not a man?
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
B
BoyGenius
Guest
(Smiling) Then, I don’t believe “trust no man.” Except, I trust the “son of man” Who is Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and the Son of Mary.No. Am I not a man?
Happy and Joyous Lent!
A
Agathon
Guest
You’d do well to. God said it, not me.Then, I don’t believe “trust no man.”
B
BoyGenius
Guest
But, I am not supposed to believe you. Which is hard since you have said it (unless if God said it Himself, He would really be telling that to people directly. For that would repudiate Himself just by having that statement uttered by a human individual.)You’d do well to. God said it, not me.
I don’t put my full trust, hope, and Salvation in man, in so far as God has not intended. That is for sure. But in the Sacraments did God employ them to man, to be Person Christi. For which we receive Jesus in the Holy Eucharist.
A
Agathon
Guest
He said it in Jeremiah.Which is hard since you have said it (unless if God said it Himself, He would really be telling that to people directly. For that would repudiate Himself just by having that statement uttered by a human individual.)
B
BoyGenius
Guest
I’d have to trust that Jeremiah heard God, and knew what he heard and was writing. I mean, God didn’t write it down. So I’d have to trust the Prophet (a human) who wrote it, that it was true what God stated. Correct?He said it in Jeremiah.
Last edited:
A
Agathon
Guest
Divine inspiration. Period.
B
BoyGenius
Guest
What is Divine Inspiration?Divine inspiration. Period.
G
guanophore
Guest
May be, but it seems clear to me that God has been creating a community for Himself from the beginning. He was born into a human family, into a human community, and taught how we should get along in community. I don’t think He would have gone to such trouble if He did not want us to trust one another.Maybe your sight is limited.
He stressed how important it is for us to forgive one another our shortcomings, but also:
Matthew 5:22-24
22 But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother[a] shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be liable to the hell[c] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.
Jesus clearly also wanted us to work at relationships where we are not even in the wrong!
Perhaps you can explain this to me? If we are not to trust any but God, or rely on any but God, then where is there any place for God healing broken relationships, or forgiveness to be important? Why would any of that matter?On the contrary, it puts our relationship with God and people into perspective.
God said not to put your trust in human flesh/temporal power. That is not the same as never having trust for anyone. Do you think Jesus trusted His parents?God said it, not me.
B
BoyGenius
Guest
To tag along with what you saying, Jesus also said: “Call no man your father.”People are way too inconsistent and imperfect to put their trust in. Instead of trusting people, one should trust God.
That leads me to believe/beg the question/ask, we shouldn’t call the men for whom children are born to as father?
But yet, Jesus calls Abraham father.
And even the most worst and pitiless forms of existence, does Jesus even refer to satan as the “father of lies.”
Just oddly Jesus says call no man father. But there He refers to father to satan, the devil. And attributes to Abraham, father.
Last edited:
A
Agathon
Guest
When someone says you’re cursed if you do so and so, the curse is literal instead of hyperbolic. The same logic applies to this passage.
A
Agathon
Guest
If humans were perfect, then we would be able to trust them. But as it is humans aren’t perfect at all, and forgiveness wouldn’t exist if that is the case, Forgiveness doesn’t at all necessitate trust, I can pardon injuries but I can chose not to,place trust in the aggressor.Perhaps you can explain this to me? If we are not to trust any but God, or rely on any but God, then where is there any place for God healing broken relationships, or forgiveness to be important?
A
Agathon
Guest
He pronounced a curse on those who do so…May be, but it seems clear to me that God has been creating a community for Himself from the beginning. He was born into a human family, into a human community, and taught how we should get along in community. I don’t think He would have gone to such trouble if He did not want us to trust one another.
B
BoyGenius
Guest
Was “trust no man” hyperbolic? Or just, “call no man your father/”When someone says you’re cursed if you do so and so, the curse is literal instead of hyperbolic. The same logic applies to this passage.
G
guanophore
Guest
No, I don’t think this is actually true. Because you seem to be saying that you can trust God, because He is perfect, and yet, you don’t really trust God to be able to heal you when your trust in people has been violated.If humans were perfect, then we would be able to trust them.
I agree. God forgives our imperfections, and calls upon us to forgive each other. I also agree that trust in other humans need not be present so forgiveness can occur. On the contrary, forgiveness is most difficult when trust is NOT present. But, trust in God is necessary for us to forgive others (and ourselves ) our shortcomings. If we cannot trust God to heal our wounds, we cannot forgive others for causing them.But as it is humans aren’t perfect at all, and forgiveness wouldn’t exist if that is the case, Forgiveness doesn’t at all necessitate trust,
Yes, but now you are talking about boundaries. Forgiving others for violating our trust does not mean we need to give them a chance to do it again. In fact, I would say that it is also a form of trust to expect them to behave badly again. We can trust that an aggressive person is likely to continue to be aggressive. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.I can pardon injuries but I can chose not to,place trust in the aggressor.
The curse was against those who trust in human flesh/earthly power above and beyond trusting in God. This has to do with politics and economics primarily.He pronounced a curse on those who do so…
When it comes to every day relationships with others, we are called to live in harmony:
Romans 12:16
Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly; never be conceited.
Romans 15:5 May the God of steadfastness and encouragement grant you to live in such harmony with one another, in accord with Christ Jesus,
Colossians 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.
Do you honestly believe it is possible to live in harmony with others unless there is trust?
Matthew 22:36-40 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”
G
guanophore
Guest
We can measure God’s expectations of us by how well we love others.
How well does Agathon do?
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.” I Cor. 13: 4-8
“Agathon is patient, Agathon is kind. Agathon does not envy, Agathon does not boast, Agathon is not proud. Agathon does not dishonor others, Agathon is not self-seeking, Agathon is not easily angered, Agathon keeps no record of wrongs. Agathon does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. Agathon always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Agathon never fails.” I Cor. 13: 4-8
How well does Agathon do?
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.” I Cor. 13: 4-8
“Agathon is patient, Agathon is kind. Agathon does not envy, Agathon does not boast, Agathon is not proud. Agathon does not dishonor others, Agathon is not self-seeking, Agathon is not easily angered, Agathon keeps no record of wrongs. Agathon does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. Agathon always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Agathon never fails.” I Cor. 13: 4-8
A
Agathon
Guest
You’ve mad the statement that I don’t believe in God to heal me so the burden of proof is on you to prove it.No, I don’t think this is actually true. Because you seem to be saying that you can trust God, because He is perfect, and yet, you don’t really trust God to be able to heal you when your trust in people has been violated.
A
Agathon
Guest
You’re pretty funny. I was so humored by your statement I forgot to laugh.
G
guanophore
Guest
Oh I think your posts in this thread speak for themselves!You’ve mad the statement that I don’t believe in God to heal me so the burden of proof is on you to prove it.
G
guanophore
Guest
Do you think this reference to 'always trusts" applies only to your relationship with God? If so, is that the case with all these statements about love?You’re pretty funny. I was so humored by your statement I forgot to laugh.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.