Truth in a Restaurant

[Ani_Ibi]

walstan:

Apparently, he’s referring to America’s rampant imperialism. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_50_4.gif

To what behaviour does the term ‘rampant imperialism’ refer?

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

To what behaviour does the term ‘rampant imperialism’ refer?

sheesh - if you seriously don’t know - I mean people say Americans don’t know what the rest of the world thinks of their govt’s policies and I always say, no, they’re an intelligent people, of course they do. I don’t know - google “rampant imperialism” and see what you get. google it now and read it for yourself.
I’m so not going to explain it for you.

 

[Lance]

walstan:

Wonderful!!, p.s. what’s the cost of emigrating to NZ nowadays?

Depends on where you are now. Do you have any talents that NZ is short on? If you really want to go you should contact one of the embassies. If you live in the US you will be free to leave anytime you like, I don’t know about other countries.

walstan:

Apparently, he’s referring to America’s rampant imperialism. smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_50_4.gif

Name one nation we have taken over. If we were imperialistic we would control western Europe, Japan and much of the rest of the world that we liberated from the Axis in WW II.

 

[Balance]

Lance:

Depends on where you are now. Do you have any talents that NZ is short on? If you really want to go you should contact one of the embassies. If you live in the US you will be free to leave anytime you like, I don’t know about other countries.

Name one nation we have taken over. If we were imperialistic we would control western Europe, Japan and much of the rest of the world that we liberated from the Axis in WW II.

you don’t have to actually take over a nation to be imperialistic. you just have to try to, I don’t know, control its oil reserves and give contracts for restructuring to your friends in big business?

 

[Lance]

Colon Powell:

“We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.”

 

[Philip_P]

Why go to the trouble of occupying territory when you can get the same results with less work? Say, by establishing military bases to ensure global hegemony, for instance.

Here’s a map of major US military presence worldwide:

msnbc.com/news/WARROOM_front.asp?cp1=1

(unfortunately can’t directly paste the flash map)

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

sheesh - if you seriously don’t know

I don’t think the question has to do with me knowing. After all I didn’t make the remark about rampant imperialism. I think it is contingent upon the person who made the remark to explain it and to give support for using it.

Can you explain the basis on which the remark ‘rampant imperialism’ was made? Yes or no please. If yes, then please do explain it. If no, then I reckon the remark was thrown out gratuitously hoping that it would stick. Has it stuck? No.

Balance:

I mean people say Americans don’t know what the rest of the world thinks of their govt’s policies

What people say this?

Balance:

and I always say, no, they’re an intelligent people, of course they do.

I suspect that Americans would be very grateful for this charitable and thoughtful remark. I am not American, though. Perhaps an American can comment? Americans? What do you say?

Balance:

I don’t know - google “rampant imperialism” and see what you get. google it now and read it for yourself.

You are instructing me to do your work for? Go on a rabbit chase for you? It is not my job to do the research and post the links for others who want to make off the cuff accusations without bothering with the courtesy of providing support for their remarks.

Balance:

I’m so not going to explain it for you.

Then I am **so **not going to take it on.

 

[MikeWM]

Philip P:

Say, by establishing military bases to ensure global hegemony, for instance.

In 132 countries, according to the Wikipedia, which is in the right ballpark. That’s a majority of countries

Mike

 

[Balance]

Lance:

Colon Powell:

“We have gone forth from our shores repeatedly over the last hundred years and we’ve done this as recently as the last year in Afghanistan and put wonderful young men and women at risk, many of whom have lost their lives, and we have asked for nothing except enough ground to bury them in, and otherwise we have returned home to seek our own, you know, to seek our own lives in peace, to live our own lives in peace. But there comes a time when soft power or talking with evil will not work where, unfortunately, hard power is the only thing that works.”

so did it work? a “war on terror” (a war on an abstract noun? we used to go to war against countries, now we go to war against abstracts?) that seems to breeding more terror.

hmmm, that hard power eh? pretty effective.
I guess it’d be useful if there was actually a just war in wehich to deploy it.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

you don’t have to actually take over a nation to be imperialistic. you just have to try to, I don’t know, control its oil reserves and give contracts for restructuring to your friends in big business?

I see you are providing a definition for ‘rampant imperialism.’ On what are basing this definition?

 

[Philip_P]

MikeWM:

In 132 countries, according to the Wikipedia, which is in the right ballpark. That’s a majority of countries

It’s a huge drag on my country - morally, politically, and economically. What little justification existed for the imperial policy ended with the collapse of the USSR. We should be slashing our nuclear stockpiles and shrinking our global military footprint.

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

I don’t think the question has to do with me knowing. After all I didn’t make the remark about rampant imperialism. I think it is contingent upon the person who made the remark to explain it and to give support for using it.

Can you explain the basis on which the remark ‘rampant imperialism’ was made? Yes or no please. If yes, then please do explain it. If no, then I reckon the remark was thrown out gratuitously hoping that it would stick. Has it stuck? No.

the basis - it’s a criticism that’s often made about the USA. i guess I thought people would know what I was referrin gto. Yes, it may have been a bit of a throwaway comment. but now it’s out there I don’t resile from it.

What people say this?

non americans

I suspect that Americans would be very grateful for this charitable and thoughtful remark. I am not American, though. Perhaps an American can comment? Americans? What do you say?

You are instructing me to do your work for? Go on a rabbit chase for you? It is not my job to do the research and post the links for others who want to make off the cuff accusations without bothering with the courtesy of providing support for their remarks.

rather than me explaining it - you can simply read it for yourself. much easier, no? and if you research it yourself you’ll get both sides of the story, not just mine.
Then I am **so **not going to take it on.

grin more power to ya.

i thought you were an american because you were objecting to me saying America has an imperialistic foreign policy.

 

[MikeWM]

Balance:

so did it work? a “war on terror” (a war on an abstract noun? we used to go to war against countries, now we go to war against abstracts?) that seems to breeding more terror.

It seems to have been renamed ‘The Long War’. This is a better description of it, at least, than the ‘War on Terror’, which has turned out just as successful as the war on other abstracts such as poverty and drugs. At least now they have removed the pretence and shown that the USA is planned to be more-or-less at perpetual ‘war’. It’s still not actually a war though, given there are no exit criteria.

Mike

 

[Balance]

sorry , that post came up funny - you’ll have to read it carefully - I’m still getting the hang of the quote function and so on.

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

I see you are providing a definition for ‘rampant imperialism.’ On what are basing this definition?

again, you can find this out for yourself. in Iraq, and in New Orleans, many contracts for rebuildiong and restructuring were given to relatives, friends of the Bush administration. smacks of something like imperialsim.

 

[Balance]

if what you’re getting at is that I’m making comments and not backing them up, I accept that.
that is because it’s the middle of the night, I’m knackered and am in the middle of writing a long essay so my heads not with it.

ripe for generalisations and inflammatory comments. like rampant imperialsim.

saying that, I do satnd by it… I’m just not going to argue it with you.

 

[Balance]

MikeWM:

It seems to have been renamed ‘The Long War’. This is a better description of it, at least, than the ‘War on Terror’, which has turned out just as successful as the war on other abstracts such as poverty and drugs. At least now they have removed the pretence and shown that the USA is planned to be more-or-less at perpetual ‘war’. It’s still not actually a war though, given there are no exit criteria.

Mike

yep.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

so did it work?

Yes, it is in the process of working. gilliam has posted a veritable mountain of links on the progress being made against terrorists. As for it having worked, it isn’t over yet.

Balance:

a “war on terror” (a war on an abstract noun?

A war against a kind of behaviour. Behaviour is not abstract.

Balance:

we used to go to war against countries

Terrorists are nationless.

Balance:

now we go to war against abstracts?

I think the bone we are picking is with the behaviour undertaken by those who have adopetd OBL’s fatwa as their mission.

Balance:

that seems to breeding more terror.

That is blaming the victim and is visibly offered with no supporting argumentation or reference to an authoritative source. Please explain why you believe that it is breeding more terror.

Balance:

hmmm, that hard power eh? pretty effective.

I suspect that the sarcasm of this reply has occluded its meaning. Can you explain what you mean please?

Balance:

I guess it’d be useful if there was actually a just war in wehich to deploy it.

Are you suggesting that there is not a Just War? If so, then please give support for this suggestion. You may have to start a new thread on the Moral Theology forum as that is where Just War Doctrine is normally discussed.

 

[Balance]

and that tag sticks. it sure does.

there’s a Kiwi troubadour who sings a song called “Rome” about being “out here on the edge of an empire” referring to the USA - comparing it to imperial rome. maybe that’s what got me started today.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

Balance:

again, you can find this out for yourself.

It is not my responsibility to find this out for myself. You made the claim. It is your responsibility to back it up.

Balance:

in Iraq, and in New Orleans, many contracts for rebuildiong and restructuring were given to relatives, friends of the Bush administration. smacks of something like imperialsim.

This is not evidence. It is simply another accusation.