Truth in a Restaurant

[mlchance]

MikeWM:

But saying ‘the troops must be brainwashed’ is hardly an ‘evil’ that requires aggressive resistance. Do you really think Jesus would whack someone for saying that, or do you think he would try to talk to him?

The former.

But here’s a better question: Why is the response to the asinine statement “the troops must be brainwashed” criticized, in at least one case at being anti-Christian, but the asinine statement isn’t subjected to the same level of scrutiny?

Again, we come to back the persistent double-standard of the American Left. No statement against President Bush, the situation in Iraq, Vice President Cheney’s hunting skills, et cetera, is beyond the pale, but all conversative responses to such are automatically hateful and make the Baby Jesus cry.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MikeWM]

mlchance:

The former.

You mean the latter, right?

But here’s a better question: Why is the response to the asinine statement “the troops must be brainwashed” criticized, in at least one case at being anti-Christian, but the asinine statement isn’t subjected to the same level of scrutiny?

What is asinine about that statement? In many respects military training is like brainwashing - you are teaching people to do what they naturally would not do. To do so they are put through strict regimes, ‘boot camp’, etc. which are indeed a form of brainwashing. They’d be useless troops otherwise.

Mike

 

[mlchance]

You mean the latter, right?

Mea culpa. Yes, I did. Rough morning.

MikeWM:

What is asinine about that statement?

Answer:

MikeWM:

In many respects military training is like brainwashing - you are teaching people to do what they naturally would not do. To do so they are put through strict regimes, ‘boot camp’, etc. which are indeed a form of brainwashing. They’d be useless troops otherwise.

IOW: You’re simply wrong. I was in the U.S. Army for 8 years, the entire time involved with either special operations or infantry units. There is no brainwashing involved.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MikeWM]

mlchance:

IOW: You’re simply wrong. I was in the U.S. Army for 8 years, the entire time involved with either special operations or infantry units. There is no brainwashing involved.

The human instinct is to question, to query authority. You can’t do that in the military, so that instinct has to be knocked out of you. That is a form of ‘brainwashing’. Otherwise you wouldn’t follow orders. Unless you have a singularly unquestioning mind - and you don’t, judging by your posts here.

Mike

 

[mlchance]

MikeWM:

The human instinct is to question, to query authority. You can’t do that in the military, so that instinct has to be knocked out of you. That is a form of ‘brainwashing’. Otherwise you wouldn’t follow orders.

Again, you’re wrong. I know. I was in the U.S. Army for 8 years. Active duty. In special operations and infantry units. Even your next words refute your statements:

MikeWM:

Unless you have a singularly unquestioning mind - and you don’t, judging by your posts here.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MikeWM]

mlchance:

Again, you’re wrong. I know. I was in the U.S. Army for 8 years.

Isn’t a part of proper brainwashing the fact that you don’t know you’ve been brainwashed?

Nevertheless, moulding someone so that they will unquestioningly do something that isn’t natural, as required in the military, is brainwashing in my book.

Mike

 

[mlchance]

MikeWM:

Nevertheless, moulding someone so that they will unquestioningly do something that isn’t natural, as required in the military, is brainwashing in my book.

Well, you’re book is wrong. It is not a requirement that soldiers unquestioningly follow orders. To say otherwise is false. Again: I know. I was there.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[vern_humphrey]

mlchance:

Well, you’re book is wrong. It is not a requirement that soldiers unquestioningly follow orders. To say otherwise is false. Again: I know. I was there.

– Mark L. Chance.

“Brainwashing” is a technical term associated with Pavlovian conditioning. The US Army doesn’t use any form of Pavlovian conditioning.

It’s kind of like saying, “The Army murders recruits.”

“The Army doesn’t murder recruits.”

“They cut the recruits’ hair, don’t they?”

“Yes, but how is that murder?”

"Well, if they cut their throats it would be murder – so I say it’s the same thing."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

 

[LilyM]

mlchance:

Do you mean the U.S. spends more of its GDP on the military than any other nation? If so, this isn’t true. Communist China, for example, spends a larger percentage of GDP on its military (and so do 34 other countries).

– Mark L. Chance.

Is this meant to prove that it’s a GOOD thing to spend a huge percentage of the GDP on the military? I’d love to see how well those other 34 countries are doing in terms of the standard of living of their citizens … not to mention little things like their records on democracy, human rights etc …

 

[gilliam]

LilyM:

Is this meant to prove that it’s a GOOD thing to spend a huge percentage of the GDP on the military?

Lily,
What is the percentage of GDP spent on the military?

 

[mlchance]

gilliam:

Lily,
What is the percentage of GDP spent on the military?

Here’s a hint, Lily. It isn’t a huge amount. It’s less than 4 percent, IIRC. As to those “other 34 countries are doing in terms of the standard of living of their citizens … not to mention little things like their records on democracy, human rights etc …”: Most of those other 34 countries are dictatorships, and the tops ones are Islamic dictatorships.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[LilyM]

mlchance:

Here’s a hint, Lily. It isn’t a huge amount. It’s less than 4 percent, IIRC. As to those “other 34 countries are doing in terms of the standard of living of their citizens … not to mention little things like their records on democracy, human rights etc …”: Most of those other 34 countries are dictatorships, and the tops ones are Islamic dictatorships.

– Mark L. Chance.

OK, I was wrong about it being a large percentage of GDP, I’ll remove my foot from my mouth now. It’s certainly a large amount whatever way you look at it. How does it compare to what the US government spends on education, healthcare, social security ???

 

[gilliam]

LilyM:

OK, I was wrong about it being a large percentage of GDP, I’ll remove my foot from my mouth now. It’s certainly a large amount whatever way you look at it. How does it compare to what the US government spends on education, healthcare, social security ???

The government doesn’t spend on social security. You pay into the program and the funds are supposedly used to pay for those who need it today. I don’t think it should be, technically, part of the federal budget.

Education is a State responsibility, not a federal responsibility.

Healthcare is either a private responsibility or a State responsibility, not a federal responsibility.

National defense is a federal responsibility

You might want to check out the Constitution of the United States of America…

By the way, spening on the military, is spending on a whole lot of things that we needed in 2005 See:

dod.mil/home/images/2005review.jpg

 

[Balance]

Ani Ibi:

Darn tootin. We’re uncontrollable. :tiphat:

“we’re” uncontrollable? I thought you said you weren’t American?

 

[Balance]

vern humphrey:

It’s amazing how many words some people need to say, "I hate America."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

I take offence at this too… I don’t hate America - been there, like it, nice country, nice people. I do however, bear a great animosity towards America’s foreign policy and its implememtation of that policy. to say that is not to say I hate America, and to suggest otherwise is , yes, ignorant.

 

[mlchance]

LilyM:

How does it compare to what the US government spends on education, healthcare, social security ???

Don’t have current numbers. In 1997, the federal budget spent 32% of the GDP. Of that budget (not of the GDP), Social Security was 22%, net interest was 11%, Medicare/Medicaid was 6%, other mandatory and entitlement programs were 6%, pending Social Security reform was 6%, non-defense discretionary spending was 17%, and defense spending was 15%.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[Ani_Ibi]

“we’re” uncontrollable? I thought you said you weren’t American?

I did.:tiphat:

 

[Philip_P]

LilyM:

OK, I was wrong about it being a large percentage of GDP, I’ll remove my foot from my mouth now. It’s certainly a large amount whatever way you look at it. How does it compare to what the US government spends on education, healthcare, social security ???

Or another interesting question - how does it compare to the spending of the rest of the world?

US military spending makes up nearly half of all of the military spending in the world. Out of the roughly 200 countries on this planet, we spend nearly as much as the rest of them combined.

 

[Lance]

Balance:

I take offence at this too… I don’t hate America - been there, like it, nice country, nice people. I do however, bear a great animosity towards America’s foreign policy and its implememtation of that policy. to say that is not to say I hate America, and to suggest otherwise is , yes, ignorant.

I don’t see much difference in hating our policies and hating us, but that is just the way I feel. Kind of like telling you neighbor, “I don’t hate you but I hate the way you conduct your life, I hate the way you spend your money, I hate the way you keep your yard and I hate what you do for a living, other than that lets be good buddies.”

 

[Philip_P]

Lance:

I don’t see much difference in hating our policies and hating us, but that is just the way I feel. Kind of like telling you neighbor, “I don’t hate you but I hate the way you conduct your life, I hate the way you spend your money, I hate the way you keep your yard and I hate what you do for a living, other than that lets be good buddies.”

Oh come on - did you hate Iraqis when Saddam was in power? Do you hate Iranians? Do you hate Arabs? Of course not. So why insist on taking offense if a Kiwi critiques American foreign policy?

Don’t take political critique as a personal attack - you’ll be less stressed