Tucker Carlson is Half Right

[ChristMyLife]

It’s only 800.00/month, or 9600.00/year.

How do you figure that?

10/hour x 40 hours/week = 400/week, which is $1600/month or just shy of 20k a year.

And yes, you’d be struggling, and probably need to be propped up with a little Govt assistance, but you could survive.

Not on $7.25/hour though.

You can write paragraphs and pages and books all you want my friend. Nothing will change the cold hard fact that paying a human being $7.25 an hour in 2019 America is an affront to human dignity.

$10.10 an hour federal minimum wage is needed immediately. And just to be clear: I think the people calling for the minimum wage to be immediately more than doubled to $15/hour are wrong.

But I think my proposal of an immediate raise to $10.10 an hour with a 35 cent raise every year is very reasonable.

 

[Peeps]

Sorry, I was thinking of one pay period per month. My math error.

It’s still not much. My husband and I are doing better now, but for quite a few years, we were living paycheck to paycheck with no savings, and we were making a lot more than 20k/yr.

 

[ChristMyLife]

It’s still not much.

No but minimum wage isn’t supposed to be a comfortable living salary…

It’s supposed to be a minimum amount which can be justified to pay a person for giving up hours of their life to work for you… It’s a minimum standard to ensure human dignity is respected.

 

[Peeps]

What I am a little leery of is that some of these folks might think that living on a min. wage with " a little Govt assistance" is OK.

It’s not OK.

Actually, if it’s truly the best that someone can achieve, then it’s OK.

But I think better of people. I honestly think that most people have much more potential than that, and I don’t think underachievement should be encouraged! I think we should encourage people to go for their best life!

Do you happen to know what the tax deduction would be from a 10.10 wage compared to a 7.25 wage? Or is 10.10 still low enough that people pay no income taxes? I don’t know these things. I know that there is a wage that does not have any taxes deducted, but I don’t know what that wage is.

I just think it would be really icky if the person making 10.10 an hour discovered that 2.00 per hour of that hourly wage was taken out for taxes and so their increase in take-home pay would be less than a dollar . That’s what always happens to me when I get any kind of raise–I get all excited, and then discover that I net nothing or just a few cents because of the increase in taxes taken out.

 

[dochawk]

Not so sure how the employer would benefit from that., though.

As an economist, I’ll note that we find it trivially easy to explain why an employer would pay women less than man.

We have no economic explanation for why a rational employer would pay men more than women . . .

hawk, displaced doctor of economics

 

[Peeps]

Perhaps that’s part of the problem. Work should not be seen as “giving up hours of their life to work for you.” Work is a privilege. Work keeps our hands and heads active, gives us a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment, and keeps us away from mischief and unsavory activities.

God has a purpose for each human being, and work is part of that purpose. Even children should have work–a child should not be encouraged to play all the day and never work. Children should be given small tasks from the time they are able to do them.

As children get older, they should be included in the family chores, and given the responsibility for some of the work of the home. Of course the child will protest, but children benefit greatly by knowing they are contributing to making the home a happy place.

A child should take on more and more responsibilities as they grow older, and by the time a child is 16-18, they should essentially be capable of doing any adult task.

I believe that teens should find some kind of work outside the home, although nowadays, it’s hard to find employment at the traditional teen workplaces because so many of their jobs are held by mature adults. But the teen should be persistent, and most teens can find something outside the family home.

As for adults–work including full time child-rearing, should be part of their lives. Yes, many types of work are unpleasant and physically draining. Yes, there are employers who don’t have a clue, and who establish unjust or foolish policies that make the work harder and result in poorer production. And yes, there are employers who get by without paying a decent wage, although in the U.S., competition between companies often means that a worker can try to find a job at a different place, and eventually, the unjust employer will find themselves with no workers.

Often it is the U.S. government, or various policies of State or local governments, that make work a misery rather than a joy. All of us have the option to petition our elected officials to change these onerous policies

As you might know, many people who retire sicken and die within a very short time, and one of the theories is that the let-down of no longer doing productive work causes the mind and body to shut down. So even Seniors enjoy doing some kind of task; finding a part-time job or volunteering are wise and satisfying ways to spend the retirement years.

This is a topic that is important to me–I was raised in German family where work was greatly valued. My grandparents taught me and my brother the joy of work, and my parents reinforced their teaching. Although at the moment, I am having a very hard time in my workplace due to various upper management decisions AND due to crippling short-staffing (we are desperate for employees!), I generally love my job and take great satisfaction in my work.

I think that an attitude that work is a “necessary evil” that detracts from our lives is wrong and inconsistent with Christian teaching.

 

[ChristMyLife]

. Even children should have work

I vehemently, emphatically, and intensely disagree with almost everything you wrote… But I don’t have time to write a point by point response. My Patriots are getting ready to lay the smackdown on the Chargers.

 

[Peeps]

You don’t believe in the value of work?

How then should people survive?

 

[ChristMyLife]

the value of work

I disagree that work is a blessing.

Work is a curse… Read Genesis 3.

 

[PJH_74]

Each sex has to deal with its own poisonous stereotypes.

I don’t disagree with that. But men, especially white alpha male types, are beginning to have to realize that what they think and believe about the world is not the default and that list is long. Minority, female, non-macho men and LGBT people have very often seen a hole one way or another in that perception. Most heads ranting about social change and how things are now unfair for men are rich white middle age to older men. There seems to be a trend.

 

[PJH_74]

Wow… Excellent points.

You made my day. Now can you find a way to make your reactions more equal? I don’t blame you for such feels, you grew up with them. Check the Bible, as far as I’ve seen (and I can’t remember the passage though I’m quite positive it was Paul), the only time lesbianism is spoken of is a passage saying things were so bad even the women were having same sex relations in addition to the men. I’m more positive than you on LGBT issues for sure, but I am heartened that you’ve taken in my basic point. Be a prophet for this basic point and you will make the world the better place even while holding to your core beliefs on the topic.

 

[Peeps]

But…who would do the things that need to be done?! How would we have any food, clothing, shelter, teaching, health care, clean up??

If you think drones should do this, who would build the drones?

Who would do research and make new discoveries?

Who would write novels and produce films and plays and who would act in them?

Who would practice music and perform it?

Who would care for children? Would parents just allow them to lie there?

If you have to come to the hospital tomorrow, would you prefer that no one be there to help you?

I don’t get this at all. It doesn’t make sense.

And you are tototally misinterpreting Genesis 3. Re-read those first three chapters. When God created Adam, BEFORE THE FALL, God gave Adam the task of tilling the Garden of Eden and keeping it. (See Genesis 2:15). The Fall cursed the ground, not the work, and the result of the curse was thorns and thistles. Before the Fall, Adam and Eve didn’t just sit around and bask in the sun while God fed them grapes.

All through the Old Testament, God Himself gave the Israelites many “jobs,” including the work of building the Tabernacle and eventually the work of building the Temple. Also, the priests worked hard to do the sacrifices and all the other work of tending to the spiritual needs of the Jews–God Himself assigned them their work.

In his first letter to the Thessalonians, St. Paul said, “Make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you.” (I Thess. 4 11)

I don’t get this. I don’t know what you’re getting at.

 

[CamelJoe]

Women in the workforce, combined with no-fault divorce and child-support laws, combined with massive immigration, combined with “safety-net” money sinks, combined with centralized banking and fiat currency, combined with globalised “free trade”, combined with Post WW2 American military-imperialism, combined with overregulation, combined with federal land-grabbing, combined with anti-discrimination laws, combined with massive welfare programs, combined with a few “unspeakable” factor, all work together to create a society in which the lower-class man is effectively an economic slave.

The pressure is building. Who knows when it will blow or what form that will take? Only God

 

[Peeps]

Hopefully , all this building pressure will cause many of the lower-class males and females to get serious about school when they are very young (1st grade on) and stay serious about school, develop a strong work-ethic early in life, turn off the TV and the street music (except during designated recreational times), avoid playing computer games for more than a few minutes (5-10 minutes) a day, AVOID SOCIAL MEDIA, stay OFF drugs, move somewhere with their parents where there is no survival requirement to be in a street gang, not get involved sexually during the teen years, join children’s and teen clubs and organizations that help them to overcome fears and disadvantages, fight racism with non-violent methods, seek out mentors and counselors in middle and high school who can help them to find a passion in life that will lead to a good job and life, graduate from high school, and take steps to follow that passion and get that good job and life.

We have plenty of opportunities in the U.S. for the lower class. Often, they are entitled to scholarships and other aid that the middle class isn’t eligible for.

I personally think the middle class is at more risk, as many of the parents are uncertain how to raise their children, and many children are being handed computer games from the earliest age they can hold a game console, and thus are growing up woefully unprepared to do well in school, become certified in a skilled trade or earn a college degree, and find/keep gainful employment. Even if a child does well, often they graduated with tens of thousands of dollars of college debt which makes it difficult for them to launch their adult life or marry/have a family. That debt hangs over entire families for years–our daughters have been out of college for over a decade, and we still owe over 20,000, and they still have outstanding loan debt, too.

 

[sallybutler]

Major economic shifts typically originate in one sector of the economy and then spread.

The working woman started primarily an urban city professional. The effects of this started in the cities and suburbs first. Then eventually started to filter into rural America.

Women have always worked and often for pay. Consider Proverbs 31. Then there were the seamstresses, laundresses, and other women who did household chores for pay. And lets not forget widows who had to support their families.

 

[vsedriver]

It’s supposed to be a minimum amount which can be justified to pay a person for giving up hours of their life to work for you… It’s a minimum standard to ensure human dignity is respected

this is not correct. Minimum wage is an entry level standard of pay. It was not a standard that had anything to do with human dignity. It was a starting point so that people with no work experience could get a job. It was put in because at the time the majority of jobs were union jobs and unions didn’t want to pay beginners the same money as those who were experienced. The idea is that the newbie would work up to a high paying position.

Also you can’t make a blanket minimum wage because cost of living varies throughout the country. $10 in New York is a pittance where $10 in rural Ohio is a good paying job.

 

[BoomBoomMancini]

Also you can’t make a blanket minimum wage because cost of living varies throughout the country. $10 in New York is a pittance where $10 in rural Ohio is a good paying job.

I’m only half following this convo but people not getting this drives me insane. I had a conversion with someone not long ago about the shutdown and he was saying that federal workers are all overpaid anyway, and his evidence was that a GS-15 level civil servant in DC makes like 160 a year. This person was from a smallish town in Missouri where 160 would let you live like a king and had no understanding that in DC that is anything but an extravagant salary.

 

[Peeps]

Good discussion, and it brings up something that I’ve seen discussed here on CAF when it comes to families trying to live on one income, but failing with the result that both Dad and Mom have to work full time just to make ends meet.

Why don’t people move?

I realize that a move involves much physical and emotional “baggage.” If a family lives near dear ones and relatives, and has friends and a church, it is VERY hard to leave them all, and it’s hard to re-locate in an area of the U.S. that feels so different than what you’re used to.

But honestly, there are so many places in this country where the cost of living is much less than other places. E.g., in our city, it’s still possible to buy a halfway decent house for under $70,000. If you are willing to live in a “dangerous” neighborhood (gang-controlled), you can buy a house for under $12,000, or a lot for a couple of hundred dollars!

And at this moment, there are several thousand openings in our factories for workers with skilled trades (and the certificate to prove it). And there are so many openings in our hospitals that we reach out overseas to find people to fill those openings. And I just saw appeal on the news yesterday that our state is hiring new troopers–$58,000/year starting salary!

Again, I don’t want to trivialize the difficulties of moving and breaking family ties and friendships. It’s really hard. It hurts the heart.

But it’s also hard living on the edge of financial disaster all the time, and it’s really hard when both parents work and other people are raising their children 8-10 hours a day.

In short, there are options here in the U.S. for those who don’t seem to be able to get their heads above water financially. Moving to a better location is one of those options.

 

[Pattylt]

This has been a question of mine for a long time! I understand wanting to stay near family but I’ve seen folks living in Kentucky and Tennessee that are entirely dependent on the government dole because there aren’t any jobs in the area and no jobs for the foreseeable future! Those coal mining jobs are not coming back.

These folks say they don’t want to be on government handouts but will not relocate from the family home? It doesn’t even have to be permanent. Go where the good jobs are and raise your family in financial security and work towards a return to the family farm. Otherwise, it looks like you really don’t mind being on government handouts and that your top concern is your family.

We moved when my kids were 10 and 13…away from family and it was hard but the best decision we made for us. Just getting away from the financial depression of everyone around us was psychologically uplifting. We didn’t realize how depressed everyone was until we were away from it.

 

[Peeps]

We did the same thing. We moved in 1980 from a city with a 25% unemployment (tied with Flint, Michigan!) to a city with 0.6% unemployment.