LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
The financial aid is in exchange for remediation measures.
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Michael68
Guest
That doesn’t answer the question. How does me giving you money lower global warming?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
As I said, the money is in exchange for remediation measures. Those measures are for the purpose of reducing CO2, and therefore global warming caused by CO2.
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Michael68
Guest
That might work in theory. And if I have no guarantees that is what you will do with the money, then what good is it for me to give you the money?
Btw. you emitt CO2
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If I was a signatory nation to the Paris Accord, and I accepted payments that were supposed to go toward climate change remediation, and I did nothing of the sort, then I would be in violation of my agreement, and would not get any more money.
Irrelevant because the CO2 I emit has been circulating in the carbon cycle for centuries, and therefore the total amount of CO2 in circulation does not change due to my emissions.
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Michael68
Guest
The Paris accord is not binding. I’m not willing to take that gamble with that much money and you shouldn’t be either. There is nothing to make these countries abide by it. It is a punishment on America for being America, imo. We have absolutely no guarantees the first payment or whatever will be used as intended. President Trump did the right thing and kept a campaign promise! Now lets renegotiate or just stay out all together.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
A bit facile. First of all, you are “additional” to the number of “breathers” alive the day before you were born, so you really can’t say you didn’t add to the amount of atmospheric CO2 by a tiny amount, assuming the number of all other “breathers” remained constant or increased.
Further, we don’t know how much of the CO2 in the atmosphere is NOT part of the shorter-term carbon cycle. (as opposed to the super long term cycle represented by burning fossil fuels). If, as is frequently stated, the level was 285-ish in ppm before the industrial revolution, then all other contributions added 100 ppm since then. Burning fossil fuels is one contributor to pre industrial revolution sources, but certainly not the only one.
The whole topic of pre industrial revolution levels is confused, though, because the Little Ice Age was immediately before it. Whether the LIA was a cause or effect of low CO2 at the time is something I have never seen addressed other than just in passing.
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Michael68
Guest
This is where I have a problem also. None of this so-called science of manmade “climate change” addresses the climate change that happened millions of years ago or even pre-industrial age “climate change”. I remain a sceptic
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
However, all the CO2 that I am breathing out I acquired from plants or animals that ate plants that captured CO2 from the atmosphere. So I am not adding to the carbon cycle even a tiny amount.
That is true. About a third of the CO2 that I exhale came from one of these super long term cycles, as you say. But my existing and breathing did not release it. It was already released into the atmosphere. The only way my breathing could add to the short-term carbon cycle would be if I could somehow digest coal in my stomach. I don’t think I want to try.
The “low CO2” during the Little Ice Age was not substantially lower than the ages that preceded it. For the past 800,000 years at least, CO2 concentration has fluctuated between 170 and 290. You can’t lay all that on the Little Ice Age. There is absolutely no doubt, even among global warming skeptics, that the current high level of CO2 is due primarily to man’s burning of fossil fuels. The only room for debate is whether this high level of CO2 is causing global warming.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It does not need to explain everything that ever happens to the climate. It only has to explain the unprecedented rapid rise in CO2 and temperature. Pre-industrial climate did vary widely - even wider than we are projecting for MMGW. But those variations took place over millennia.
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Michael68
Guest
What is this rapid rise in temperature you keep speaking of? I’ve lived in Texas most of my life. There has been no rapid rise in temperatures here. We have hot summers and mild to cold winters. Sometimes we have very cold winters. Please explain this rapid rise in temperatures because I don’t see it here. Where is it happening?
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
It is happening nowhere in particular and everywhere in general. It is happening on a time scale that is long compared to your lifetime experience, which is why you may not be personally aware of it, but short in geological terms.
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Michael68
Guest
I’m not sure I can accept this. I know since I was a kid, some 40yrs ago, better methods of pollution control have been put into place and better technology is making pollution control better and better. Are you saying these efforts have failed? I live in an area literally surrounded by refineries and I notice the better air quality
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I’m not saying that at all. Various forms of pollution have been successfully addressed. Climate change is not what most people would call pollution.
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Michael68
Guest
I’m confused as to what you actually want. I’m trying to understand . I hope I’m not coming off as snarky. I’m really trying to understand
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Actually I want very little. I am not pushing the Paris Accords, or any other specific remediation measures as a preferred solution. I am not pushing a carbon tax (just explaining it) or the buying and selling of carbon credits. I just want the academic science on this topic to be respected, and for the researchers to be assumed to be acting in good faith, unless absolutely proven otherwise.
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St_Pancake
Guest
Don’t you know how very rare government fraud is?
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Michael68
Guest
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frobert
Guest
A bit more sanguine about the US withdrawal.
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…To me, the Paris Accords were just another feel-good PR stunt enabling politicians to pretend that they could control forces that are already way out-of-hand, an international vanity project of chicken***** covering. The coming economic collapse will depress global industrial activity whether anybody likes it or not, and despite anyone’s pretense of good intentions — and then we will have a range of much more practical problems of everyday life to contend with.
Of course, Trump cannot possibly see it that way, given his wish to bring back the America of humming factories and happy workers seeing the USA in their Chevrolets and all that. That fantasy will eventually fade as the inability to get anything done in Washington becomes manifest and obvious. When the “basket of deplorables” sees their hopes dribble away, they will start in with serious mischief of their own, without Trump having to prompt them.
James Howard Kunstler
Quote
…To me, the Paris Accords were just another feel-good PR stunt enabling politicians to pretend that they could control forces that are already way out-of-hand, an international vanity project of chicken***** covering. The coming economic collapse will depress global industrial activity whether anybody likes it or not, and despite anyone’s pretense of good intentions — and then we will have a range of much more practical problems of everyday life to contend with.
Of course, Trump cannot possibly see it that way, given his wish to bring back the America of humming factories and happy workers seeing the USA in their Chevrolets and all that. That fantasy will eventually fade as the inability to get anything done in Washington becomes manifest and obvious. When the “basket of deplorables” sees their hopes dribble away, they will start in with serious mischief of their own, without Trump having to prompt them.
James Howard Kunstler
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ProVobis
Guest
But I have a well-maintained 5000 sq ft lawn to take it in.
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