Tunisian President Flees Country Amid Unrest

[gilliam]

There is widespread looting going on all over the major cities of Tunisia by not only the police or “goons” as you put them, but by all sorts of people. The country is impoverished and that is what happens in countries which are impoverished when the government crumbles. Has happened since the dawn of cities.

As far as the US national interest in Tunisia is concerned. Tunisia is not a colony of the US. It is an independent country. Our interest would be in that it is peaceful with its neighbors. We normally would prefer that Tunisia be a democratic country since they tend to be peaceful and provide human rights to their people. However we are not going to engage in nation building in Tunisia unless there is a direct threat upon us or our allies.

 

[gilliam]

Tunisia is not a major U.S. ally. On Jan. 7, the State Department said it was concerned about the regime’s online and real-life crackdown. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Jan. 12 that Washington would not take sides, infuriating those who saw a double standard in the vocal U.S. position on Iran.

But others saw encouragement from Washington’s reticence. **U.S. leaders are “supporting us with their silence,” a Tunisian told me on Twitter. “If they say anything, we will lose.” **

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011405084_2.html

 

[Kadaveri]

The Arab blogs are full of reports, pictures and videos of the after dark attacks, mostly not even reporting looting but armed gangs just smashing stuff up and torching buildings. There are no armed gangs in Tunisia except for the regime’s thugs as all the guns are in the hands of the state. Also several pictures (such as one I linked to earlier) show the “gangs of looters” travelling around in heavy window-tinted vans. Do impoverished looters have such vehicles? This is the regime trying to trick people into thinking oh when the dictator leaves the country turns to chaos so we need a new dictator who’ll bring ‘law and order’. It’s not working by the way.

 

[gilliam]

• Tunisia hit with looting as new leader is sworn in
• Tunisian head of presidential security arrested - Jazeera
• France says to block suspicious movement of Tunisian assets
• New US Reality in Tunisia
• Arab activists hope Tunisia events inspire change

 

[Kadaveri]

Tunisia is not a major U.S. ally. On Jan. 7, the State Department said it was concerned about the regime’s online and real-life crackdown. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said on Jan. 12 that Washington would not take sides, infuriating those who saw a double standard in the vocal U.S. position on Iran.

But others saw encouragement from Washington’s reticence. **U.S. leaders are “supporting us with their silence,” a Tunisian told me on Twitter. “If they say anything, we will lose.” **

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/14/AR2011011405084_2.html

The Washington Post is like a Stalinist newspaper. So now they’re claiming the US did not support the Tunisian dictatorship, because 36 hours before the dictator was fleeing the country Hillary Clinton said the US is ‘not taking sides’ between a dictatorship murdering its citizens and demonstrators calling for democracy? And then it totally misrepresents the statement made on January 7th, which expressed more concern about attacks on the TUNISIAN DICTATORSHIP’s freedom of expression by demonstrators than the other way round. This is what they said.

We are concerned about demonstrations that have occurred over the past few days in Tunisia. They appear to us to be the result of ongoing social and economic unrest. We, obviously, want to see restraint on all sides [Kad: A dictatorship is shooting dead dozens of unarmed demonstrators calling for democracy and the US calls for ‘restraint on both sides’]. The people of Tunisia have the right to exercise free – public assembly. And we have conveyed our views directly to the Tunisian Government.

We’re also concerned, as part of this, over hacking activity that has occurred associated with various social media sites and websites. Now, this can be – come from many different directions. There have been a number of cyber intrusions, including attacks on the Government of Tunisia’s websites. This, along with incursions into social media accounts, disrupt the free flow of information, and we urge everyone from the government to activists to respect freedom of expression and information. [Kad: According to the US, ‘activists’ are taking away the poor Tunisian dictatorship’s freedom of expression. They have no shame.]

america.gov/st/texttrans-english/2011/January/20110107184532su0.9097188.html?CP.rss=true#ixzz1B8fqD7yv

 

[Kadaveri]

The United States has very good relations with Tunisia, which date back more than 200 years. The United States has maintained official representation in Tunis almost continuously since 1795, and the American Friendship Treaty with Tunisia was signed in 1799. The two governments are not linked by security treaties, but relations have been close since Tunisia’s independence. U.S.-Tunisian relations suffered briefly after the 1985 Israeli raid on PLO headquarters in Tunis, after the 1988 Tunis assassination of PLO terrorist Abu Jihad, and in 1990 during the Gulf War. In each case, however, relations warmed again quickly, reflecting strong bilateral ties [Kad: in other words the Tunisian dictatorship’s mild complaints were just for domestic consumption and privately they had no problem]. The United States and Tunisia have an active schedule of joint military exercises. U.S. security assistance historically has played an important role in cementing relations. The U.S.-Tunisian Joint Military Commission meets annually to discuss military cooperation, Tunisia’s defense modernization program, and other security matters.

state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/5439.htm

Remarks after Meeting with Tunisian President Ben Ali
Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Tunis, Tunisia
September 6, 2008

SECRETARY RICE: Hello. I just finished a really very good and extensive discussion with the president.** Tunisia is a good friend of the United States, and has been for decades. It is a deep relationship. **We have broad cooperation across a range of issues…

And we are good friends, and we can have very good and intensive discussions about internal and external matters. And that is the way that it has been. So I thank the president for taking so much time with me. It has been a very good visit. Thank you very much.

2001-2009.state.gov/secretary/rm/2008/09/109228.htm

Tunisia is to receive 12 refursbished Sikorsky SH-60F Oceanhawk multimission utility helicopters from surplus American stocks, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) says. Tunisia will be the first African user of the SH-60, although the UH-60 Black Hawk is in service with Morocco and Egypt.

The DSCA has notified the US Congress the rotorcraft are being provided as Excess Defense Articles and that the refurbishment as well as associated equipment, parts, training and logistical support will cost US taxpayers an estimated $282 million.

“This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for economic and military progress in North Africa,” the DSCA adds.

defenceweb.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8800:tunisia-to-gain-12-sikorsky-sh-60f-multimission-helicopters&catid=35:Aerospace&Itemid=107

SEC. CHRISTOPHER: …Earlier today in a separate meeting with Foreign Minister Ben Yahia, I expressed our appreciation for the tireless efforts of President Ben Ali of Tunisia in advancing the peace process. Now by establishing these new ties with Israel, Tunisia has once again demonstrated its commitment to the peace process. The foreign minister and I also discussed threats against Tunisia. I told him that the United States would take such threats very seriously, and that we are committed to a stable and secure Tunisia.

Finally, with the minister I reviewed our growing economic and commercial ties. We’re considering ways to spur American investment in Tunisia through the Overseas Private Investment Corporation OPIC as well as through the successful mission to Tunisia very recently by senior Commerce Department officials.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Archive/Speeches/MEDIA%20STAKOUT%20WITH%20SECY%20OF%20STATE%20CHRISTOPHER-%20FM%20B

But nevermind all that, according to the Washington Post the US was never really an ally of the Tunisian dictatorship because it started criticising it hours before the dictator fled the country. Obama even called for elections after the dictator had just been overthrown.

 

[gilliam]

I am not sure why your posting all that? To show that Tunis was a minor ally of the US? Sure. What would you have the US do, invade Tunis and make it a colony?

 

[Kadaveri]

The United States has very good relations with Tunisia. Relations have been close since Tunisia’s independence. Tunisia is a good friend of the United States, and has been for decades. It is a deep relationship. We are good friends, and we can have very good and intensive discussions about internal and external matters. The United States appreciates the tireless efforts of President Ben Ali of Tunisia. The United States just gave Tunisia $282 million worth of military equipment for free. Yeah sure just a minor ally.

Honestly, do you see no other alternatives for US-Tunisian relations other than 1. The US strongly supporting, arming, and being good friends with a vicious Tunisian dictatorship/police state that tortures and massacres its own citizens and 2. invading Tunisia and making it a colony? Do you have such contempt for democracy that the thought of allowing it doesn’t even occur to you?

 

[new_User1357246]

I am not sure why your posting all that? To show that Tunis was a minor ally of the US? Sure. What would you have the US do, invade Tunis and make it a colony?

Tunisia was one of only five countries to receive military assistance from us (only $12 million dollars, but assistance nonetheless).

I’m not Kadaveri, but I would certainly have the US not fund dictatorships like this.

 

[gilliam]

Riots in Tunisia escalate: Gangs loyal to ousted president begin random shooting sprees; at least 2 believed killed

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/tunisia/8262026/Tunisia-riots-Fears-mount-over-violent-power-struggle.html

 

[gilliam]

Honestly, do you see no other alternatives for US-Tunisian relations other than 1. The US strongly supporting, arming, and being good friends with a vicious Tunisian dictatorship/police state that tortures and massacres its own citizens and 2. invading Tunisia and making it a colony? Do you have such contempt for democracy that the thought of allowing it doesn’t even occur to you?

Your the one making accusations. I ask you again, before this year, what would you have us do? I hereby make you president for the day, what would you have us do?

 

[Kadaveri]

Tunisia was one of only five countries to receive military assistance from us (only $12 million dollars, but assistance nonetheless).

I’m not Kadaveri, but I would certainly have the US not fund dictatorships like this.

Tunisia received $282 million in military assistance from the US in 2010 alone, who send military assistance to far more than only five countries. That’s before bringing up the very close relationship the Bin `Ali regime had with France (the French foreign minister was still offering to send paramilitary forces to help the Tunisian dictatorship only last Wednesday), which the US could end with a single phonecall.

 

[gilliam]

Tunisia was one of only five countries to receive military assistance from us (only $12 million dollars, but assistance nonetheless).

I’m not Kadaveri, but I would certainly have the US not fund dictatorships like this.

We give assistance to a lot of countries. Especially if they are willing to help fight terrorists. Remember where Tunisia is located. Foreign Military Financing refers to congressionally appropriated grants given to foreign governments to finance the purchase of American-made weapons, services and training. Since 1950, the US government has provided over $91 billion in FMF to militaries around the world. Yea, I would say $12 million is pretty much noise.

 

[PiousTemplar]

We give assistance to a lot of countries. Especially if they are willing to help fight terrorists. Remember where Tunisia is located. Foreign Military Financing refers to congressionally appropriated grants given to foreign governments to finance the purchase of American-made weapons, services and training. Since 1950, the US government has provided over $91 billion in FMF to militaries around the world. Yea, I would say $12 million is pretty much noise.

I lol’d.

You’d be suprised how many of americas ‘friends’ in reality hate them.

Well, they do act like the world police

 

[gilliam]

I lol’d.

You’d be suprised how many of americas ‘friends’ in reality hate them.

They may resent us, but they fear a world without us more.

Well, they do act like the world police

Not because we really wanted to, but because of circumstances, and by request, have found ourselves in that position. Even on this thread people are expecting the US to take a role in Tunisia and are condeming us for acting in our national interest in the past. The US is very much an empire of trust, like ancient Rome was. Interesting book on the subject here.

 

[gilliam]

HAMDY HASSAN, A SPOKESMAN FOR EGYPT’S MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD
“We warn and continue to warn of an explosion taking place that would impact all (Arab) countries as is happening today in Tunisia. But when will it happen? No one knows. No one knew when the explosion would happen in Tunisia … (It is) a bad omen for other leaders. I think each one now is either preparing his plane or his accounts, and is preparing also a tighter security grip than what is present to try and protect his position.”

reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70E1FO20110115

 

[Kadaveri]

Al-Arabiyyah had a lengthy report on what they called vandalism and looting by demonstrators in Tunisia saying the country had descended into anarchy after Bin `Ali left (though they never mentioned where he left to, maybe they still think he went to Qatar). They then started interviewing a Tunisian guy who talked about how gangs were firing guns at people’s houses, torching cars and stealing things and the interviewer kept saying oh that’s so terrible etc… then when he mentioned that these gangs looked like policemen they quickly cut the interview and started playing a clip they were playing just 3 minutes before I kid you not.

 

[gilliam]

There are a number of reports now coming out of looting and other acts of violence by people from the old(?) regime as well as those just out to get what they can during the chaos:
english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/01/201111521341179388.html

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/tunisia/8261980/British-expat-tells-of-her-grief-for-brother-in-law-shot-dead-by-Tunisian-police.html

en.apa.az/news.php?id=138458

Bin `Ali is in Saudi Arabia:
Riyadh: Saudi Arabia confirmed the arrival of Tunisia’s former president Zine Al Abidine Bin Ali and his family in the kingdom yesterday morning.

A statement by the royal court carried by the official Saudi Press Agency (SPA) did not say how long Bin Ali and his family will remain in the kingdom. It noted that the kingdom’s welcome to Bin Ali was based on appreciation of the “exceptional circumstances” Tunisia is going through.
gulfnews.com/news/region/tunisia/no-saudi-mediation-for-bin-ali-1.746966

 

[gilliam]

AP - Tunisian police arrested the head of the presidential guard Sunday and dozens of others suspected in drive-by shootings, trying to restore calm to the North African nation after the historic ouster of its longtime strongman.

» Read full article on[Yahoo! News: Top Stories]

 

[gilliam]

US denies WikiLeaks spurred revolt in Tunisia
(AP)
: AP - The Obama administration is rejecting… seesmic.com/web/spacer.pngbit.ly/…

Legal action against the former head of the presidential police for fomenting unrest and launching attacks on citizens - Tunisia TV
Two Officials Tied to Former President Are Held in Tunisia: The arrests are the latest indication…
seesmic.com/web/spacer.pngdlvr.it…

Region Reacts to Tunisia Upheaval (Wall Street Journal)
seesmic.com/web/spacer.pngfeedzil…

Sec State Clinton to FM Morjane - “Need to move forward w credible democratic elections”
Secretary Clinton called Tunisian FM Morjane, pledged support for Tunisian people and urged broad political dialogue during transition.
seesmic.com/web/spacer.pngtinyurl