Turned away from confession

[DignumEtJustum]

What an absurd comment to make to a priest who offers Mass each day.

And what a commentary regarding those attached to the vetus ordo.

If your own flock are sufficiently knowledgeable on this then good on you but from my own observations of attending Mass all over, I can only comment on things as I see them.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

If your own flock are sufficiently knowledgeable on this then good on you but from my own observations of attending Mass all over, I can only comment on things as I see them.

I was addressing the comment you made to the other priest in this thread.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

I was addressing the comment you made to the other priest in this thread.

I’m afraid I wasn’t aware I was responding to a priest. Regardless my comments come from years of observation in mostly having attended the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form only more recently.

 

[buc_fan33]

I think it’s fair to say that many who attend the Ordinary Form don’t even know they’re in the presence of the Lord. Attend both Masses yourself and see which one clears quicker.

You’ve got to be kidding me, right? For the record, I have attended both, and this attitude is PRECISELY why I no longer attend nor celebrate the EF.

 

[DebChris]

The Source and Summit of our Faith is the Eucharist. Mass timings are important to people for very different reasons, just as they are for the priest.
Families with young children have bedtimes. There are many people who work early hours, and odd shifts. You have hospital workers and those who work in emergency services.
It is not unusual to belong to parishes, with a single priest, providing 5 Masses including the Saturday Vigil on a weekend. That does not include responsibilities such as Baptisms and weddings.
Some parishes do provide First Friday Holy Hour, and other services as well.

I thought I would look up the overseas Mass schedule of the parish to which I belonged. Keep in mind that it was the only Catholic Church in the whole country when I first moved there. There was no waiting time between Masses offered not only in English. Other languages included Sri-lankan, Tagalog, Urdu, Tamil, Malayalam, French, Arabic, Konkani, Spanish, and Bengali. All Masses were packed to overflowing, including the courtyard.
The laity was heavily involved. There were Adult enrichment classes and Bible study, The Legion of Mary, Couples for Christ, and several Charismatic Groups (because of the various languages). Tuesdays were devoted to St. Anthony of Padua, and there was an extra evening Mass (in English) in honor of Our Lady of Perpetual Mercy.

 

[buc_fan33]

I’m afraid I wasn’t aware I was responding to a priest. Regardless my comments come from years of observation in mostly having attended the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form only more recently.

Would it have made any difference? I neither expect nor demand different treatment because I have received the sacrament of Holy Orders. The law of the Gospel demands we treat all with respect and charity.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

You’ve got to be kidding me, right? For the record, I have attended both, and this attitude is PRECISELY why I no longer attend nor celebrate the EF.

Well, dear Father, it is an attitude I found going back to the days of Quattuor abhinc annos. I remember the day when I handed the indult back to the Bishop after the assignment was over, for a tiny group that had petitioned for a Mass in the vetus ordo. He asked “Don’t you want to keep it, even as a curio?” I instantly said, “No.”

 

[DebChris]

One always has the option of saying an act of perfect contrition, and refraining from communion at Mass, if one is conscious of a grave sin on their soul. The act will protect you in danger of death, should God forbid you die before you have the chance for sacramental confession at another time or place.

This is a very important point to make. The OP stated that the priest did provide options for those unable to make the Sacrament of Reconciliation at the time of offered. They could still attend Mass. The forgiveness of venial sins is provided within the Sacrament of the Eucharist. Others posted about the leeway provided in terms of those making a devotional confession that would meet the provisions of the First Saturday devotion who still wished the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[buc_fan33]

Well, dear Father, it is an attitude I found going back to the days of Quattuor abhinc annos. I remember the day when I handed the indult back to the Bishop after the assignment was over, for a tiny group that had petitioned for a Mass in the vetus ordo. He asked “Don’t you want to keep it, even as a curio?” I instantly said, “No.”

Tragic. And, for the record, I know that the vast majority of attendees or the vetus ordo liturgy are faithful, holy people who simply prefer that form of the Roman Rite. However, I’ve found that those with this attitude are quite vocal about it.

 

[DignumEtJustum]

You’ve got to be kidding me, right? For the record, I have attended both, and this attitude is PRECISELY why I no longer attend nor celebrate the EF.

I’m sorry but my commentary comes from my own observations. I grew up in the OF and all my friends from my Catholic schools have either left the Church not believing in God or attend Mass once or twice a year and know almost NOTHING of the faith, as was once the case for me. Having grown up with what is mainstream in the Church now with the option of being able to choose instead what was mainstream for all my ancestors and the saints, given hindsight and the direction the world has gone with its obvious lack of Sanctifying Grace today I must choose the latter for myself and family should I ever have kids of my own.

Would it have made any difference? I neither expect nor demand different treatment because I have received the sacrament of Holy Orders. The law of the Gospel demands we treat all with respect and charity.

How should I have responded differently? If something is reality but doesn’t make you feel good it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be talked about. I think this is our biggest problem in the Church today and what I say is the reality of the Church today whether you like it or not and given your role you should be worrying more about these things than me. There are far bigger problems to worry about than Mass starting 20 minutes late because of a confession line. If you see this as the problem given everything else going on, I’m not sure what I could possibly say any more respectfully or charitably.

 

[buc_fan33]

I’m sorry but my commentary comes from my own observations.

These are your observations. I have my own.

I grew up in the OF and all my friends from my Catholic schools have either left the Church not believing in God or attend Mass once or twice a year and know almost NOTHING of the faith, as was once the case for me.

And I suppose this is the fault of the faithful who attend the Novus Ordo and the priests who celebrate it faithfully? I’d be very interested to see the links in that logic.

Having grown up with what is mainstream in the Church now with the option of being able to choose instead what was mainstream for all my ancestors and the saints, given hindsight and the direction the world has gone with its obvious lack of Sanctifying Grace today I must choose the latter for myself and family should I ever have kids of my own.

This is your prerogative. But, do not be fooled into thinking that original sin does not touch those who attend the Extraordinary Form. I’d also like to know what you mean by it’s obvious lack of Sanctifying Grace. Please define what you mean by that term. I suspect it doesn’t mean what you think it means.

How should I have responded differently? If something is reality but doesn’t make you feel good it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be talked about.

First of all, it’s your perception of reality. Doesn’t mean it’s reality. But, that’s beside the point. The law of the Gospel demands charity in all things. I know, I know…telling people the truth is charitable. Yup. Sure is. And try that sometime when you’re preparing a couple for marriage who is cohabiting. “You’re in danger of going to hell if you don’t repent.” True. And guaranteed, if you say that at the first meeting, your first meeting with said couple will also be your last.

I think this is our biggest problem in the Church today and what I say is the reality of the Church today whether you like it or not and given your role you should be worrying more about these things than me.

I disagree. But, who’s to say I don’t worry about it? Do you lose sleep over worrying about the salvation of your parishioners? Do you spend hours in front of the Blessed Sacrament each week praying for the souls entrusted to your care? I do.

There are far bigger problems to worry about than Mass starting 20 minutes late because of a confession line. If you see this as the problem given everything else going on, I’m not sure what I could possibly say any more respectfully or charitably.

Sure there are, like what’s going on in Venezuela, or North Korea, as just two examples. But to suggest that it is responsible to delay the start of Mass by 20 minutes, or that I’m shirking my priestly responsibilities for telling people that Confessions need to end as I need to go get ready for Mass in five minutes, my friend, you are sadly mistaken.

Maybe it’s the German in me, but if Mass starts at 7:00, it starts at 7:00 on the dot according to my cell phone, which follows the atomic clocks. Not 7:01, not 6:59, 7:00.

 

[theodoric]

To delay Mass by 20 minutes in such a non-emergency situation would be nothing other then irresponsible and should be reported to the diocese.

I would have do agree that it would be irresponsible to delay Mass to hear a non-emergency confession (though I likely wouldn’t report it to the diocese). People have children and families and tight schedules and the priest should respect that. If I showed up and Mass was delayed by 20 minutes I would likely avoid attending that parish in the future.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

Would it have made any difference? I neither expect nor demand different treatment because I have received the sacrament of Holy Orders. The law of the Gospel demands we treat all with respect and charity.

And yet, Father, you have spent years in the seminary…which gives you a knowledge of the liturgy that exceeds most of the people posting on this forum. That alone demands acknowledgement and an absolute deference to you.

And the fact that you have been elevated to the dignity of the priesthood, chosen by His Excellency, your diocesan bishop for this elevation, demands that every person acknowledge that fact.

Moreover, you have an intimacy with the liturgy, precisely due to the ontological character you bear, that no one who has not been raised to the priesthood will ever know or can ever experience. That, too, must be conceded by every lay person on this forum…who should never presume to lecture you or any priest about liturgy or the sacraments.

That is the reality of the divinely constituted hierarchy that is the Church.

Those who wax nostalgic about bygone eras they did not experience may need to dust off the attitudes that marked those eras…which those of us who lived in days gone by still remember…quite indelibly.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I think it’s fair to say that many who attend the Ordinary Form don’t even know they’re in the presence of the Lord. Attend both Masses yourself and see which one clears quicker.

So we are all dumb?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

If your own flock are sufficiently knowledgeable on this then good on you but from my own observations of attending Mass all over, I can only comment on things as I see them.

Perhaps you move in the wrong circles?

 

[Roseeurekacross]

I’m afraid I wasn’t aware I was responding to a priest. Regardless my comments come from years of observation in mostly having attended the Ordinary Form and the Extraordinary Form only more recently.

Yep, definitely moving in the wrong circles.

Humility!

And stop disrespecting Priests !

Here’s what would happen if Mass was 20 min late, the next Mass would be late, then the next would be about 50 min late,

Because Priests here have to travel.

Or people would not be able to attend daily Mass or risk the sack.

And what about mums with small children , 20 min late is huge. Or infirm elderly

Or sitting in an unheated church in mid winter!

 

[Don_Ruggero]

I would have do agree that it would be irresponsible to delay Mass to hear a non-emergency confession (though I likely wouldn’t report it to the diocese). People have children and families and tight schedules and the priest should respect that. If I showed up and Mass was delayed by 20 minutes I would likely avoid attending that parish in the future.

My phone in the chancery rang for a lot less. If I got a call relating such an occurrence, I would be on the phone with the parish priest straight away, I can assure you.

 

[Don_Ruggero]

So we are all dumb?

Oh! By this one question, you have made me miss a whole bunch of Australians I knew over a span of many years.

It was interrogatives like that which could make me burst out laughing in the lecture hall in a way no one else could quite manage. And always with a twinkle in their eye as they said whatever their question was.

 

[buc_fan33]

I’ll just say one more thing on this…often times people laudably assume the best. They assume the priest had a meeting, or an emergency, or another appointment, or something like that. It’s also important to remember that he could have just been ready to call it a day and go enjoy some down time doing something he enjoys. This is needed. I’ve seen far too many of my brother priests get burned out from ministry and trying to do it all. I’ve been stopped many times by people desiring to celebrate the sacrament. I don’t think I’ve ever refused (except in the obvious cases like when I had to get to the class I was teaching, or the hospital). However, I’m not going to lie…when Saturday evening Mass is over, I go back to the rectory and crash. My pastor and I might cook a nice dinner and enjoy a nice glass of wine. I may put a football game on T.V. This in no way implies we are shirking our responsibilities. It means we are human. John Vianney was given a unique grace to hear confessions 16 hours a day, live on one potato, and one hour of sleep. In my experience, this grace is not given to most priests. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t hold St. John Vianney up as a model. Rather, it means we have to recognize that the world already has a Savior, and it isn’t me. I’m not saving the world tonight; tomorrow isn’t looking too good either. Rather, I’m going to do the very best with the time I have.

 

[DebChris]

I would have do agree that it would be irresponsible to delay Mass to hear a non-emergency confession (though I likely wouldn’t report it to the diocese). People have children and families and tight schedules and the priest should respect that. If I showed up and Mass was delayed by 20 minutes I would likely avoid attending that parish in the future.

Yep, definitely moving in the wrong circles.

Humility!

And stop disrespecting Priests !

Here’s what would happen if Mass was 20 min late, the next Mass would be late, then the next would be about 50 min late,

Because Priests here have to travel.

Or people would not be able to attend daily Mass or risk the sack.

And what about mums with small children , 20 min late is huge. Or infirm elderly

Or sitting in an unheated church in mid winter!

Exactly the point I made earlier. There are people who work on weekends, in low wage jobs without benefits. There are doctors, nurses, and emergency personnel who need to be on duty at odd hours to provide for whatever needs might happen.

I mentioned my current parish being a mission parish. It only provides a single Mass on Sunday, and Father may indeed need to be back at the main parish for the next Mass.
In the meantime, parishioners stick around for fellowship because we have donuts after every Mass. Different families take responsibility each week for bringing the donuts.
Other ministries, for this parish family (including the main parish) include a quilt ministry that provides quilts for the homeless, a Title I school, and leukemia patients. We have a shawl ministry that knits or crochets shawls for those who are grieving the loss of a spouse, and afghans for the homeless.
The closing prayer of the Mass is “Go and serve the Lord.” Our life in Christ does not end with the Mass, but is to be lived daily. It is our failure to live that life on a daily basis that determines whether or not we need the Sacrament of Reconciliation.

We are all called to charity, in its various forms. Many us try to get to Mass as early as possible to prepare for the Eucharistic Celebration. The priest who begins on time honors our waiting, and our preparation.
He honors those who have other obligations, just as we honor God when we come to Mass by not being late or leaving early.

We are all part of the Church. The more involved we become the less time we have to point fingers at what others are doing/not doing, how pious this person is compared to that person. If you can sing, join the choir. When the cantor had a stroke, somebody took his place. A student from the School of the Arts plays bassoon while another plays violin. Do you have a gift for hospitality? Have you offered to help clean or decorate the church before Easter of Christmas?

Perhaps, what our person posting about the benefits of the EF comes from not belonging to a strong Youth Group when younger. I see how my current parish group is active in service activities, and other ways of learning about God’s love. My older brothers, in the days when EF was the norm belonged to CYO.